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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
 Posted - 12/01/2006 : 8:21:47 PM
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I work in Newport, RI, a very wealthy area that most people couldn't afford to live in. I know of MANY boarding schools. No, I wouldn't be surprised. But these are families who own mutliple homes around the country, which is NOT common. But in OTHER areas (maybe where JK is from and a lot of areas in western MA), it is probably even less common.
I too have papers to write for the end of the semester for graduate classes. But if we are having a conversation and i want you guys to understand my thoughts, I try to convey them as best I can. I don't find it that hard to do. Would be nice for the same respect back. Like i said, i don't expect an award winning essay, but just something that makes sense where you don't have to go back and read and re-read it and GUESS whats being said. |
- Ryan |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 12:20:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lords47
... Care to go back to the subject of the thread?
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 03:41:37 AM
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False. Newport, RI, is not a wealthy community. (maybe from revenue created from tours of the mansion and maybe from certain sections)
Perhaps it was one time (with the good old mansions, but believe me, that city is ridden with poverty, as there always is the "other side".) Last I knew, Laidlaw had the school bus contract in Newport RI. And I've spoken to a few school bus drivers from Newport, RI in person. There buses are fallen apart (seen them in person) <typical of Laidlaw>, underpaid <typical of Laidlaw>, scared of management <typical of Laidlaw>.
I'm not just saying this out of "guess work" -I know what it's like to work for Laidlaw.
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 03:44:59 AM
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| I don't find JK's writing hard to read- read them twice if you must, you will learn from them. Think them through-they make sense. More then any paid educational class will teach you. (then=than) |
Edited by - 80-RE4 on 12/02/2006 03:45:58 AM |
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Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
Top Member
Canada
1180 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 04:26:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JK
quote:
Originally posted by Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
... I agree that the optimum environment for a very young child is at home being educated and cared for by a loving, nurturing parent. Unfortunately, that is not always possible in our society today.
(sn)
Perhaps, yet, how often is it readily possible and yet too inconvenient? And sometimes it is not about the money. (jk)
Perhaps, yet, unfortunately, too often it is not possible in our society today.
(sn) |
Edited by - Sandra (Ennis) Nunn on 12/02/2006 05:34:08 AM |
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 07:13:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4
False. Newport, RI, is not a wealthy community. (maybe from revenue created from tours of the mansion and maybe from certain sections)
Perhaps it was one time (with the good old mansions, but believe me, that city is ridden with poverty, as there always is the "other side".) Last I knew, Laidlaw had the school bus contract in Newport RI. And I've spoken to a few school bus drivers from Newport, RI in person. There buses are fallen apart (seen them in person) <typical of Laidlaw>, underpaid <typical of Laidlaw>, scared of management <typical of Laidlaw>.
I'm not just saying this out of "guess work" -I know what it's like to work for Laidlaw.
So because you've talked to people who work at Laidlaw who say their buses are falling apart, you can call the enire city poverty ridden? Wow Matt, i expected much more from you. I'm there EVERY single day. THe mansions isn't the part I was referring to either. Most of those are museums. The Navy is a giant industry here, there's many department of defense contracts in the area, there's very expensive schools, high taxes, unique business. Yes, there is a low income section, but every community has low income housing somewhere.
By the way... Laidlaw gave newport a new batch of IC CE's. Must be tough to be in poverty. |
- Ryan |
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Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
Top Member
Canada
1180 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 09:05:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lords47
But back on subject, I'm not sure the driver and monitor committed any type of crime or felony worthy of being prosecuted.
quote:
Originally posted by Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
In Ontario, Canada, it is a provincial offence to leave young children unattended.
"...leaving a child unattended, a provincial offence under the Child and Family Services Act."
"The maximum penalty for leaving a child unattended under the act is a $1,000 fine, imprisonment up to one year or both."
quote:
Originally posted by JK
Forgive me if it seems that I think such laws are offensive and without merit.
Parents screw up, and when the result does not result in harm done sometimes that and perhaps a scolding is more than sufficient for most to get back on track. When not, then go ahead with some other intervention. (jk)
No need to forgive you James. I value and respect your opinions.
I'm not clear from your response if it is the laws that "are offensive and without merit", or if it is the penalty for such laws that you disagree with.
The requirements to obey the posted speed limit and to stop for a stop sign are common traffic laws across North America. There are penalties even if these traffic offenses do "not result in harm done."
In Ontario, if someone is injured or killed because of excessive speed or the failure to stop for a stop sign, offences under the Criminal Code could apply. The most serious charge, criminal negligence causing death, carries a maximum penalty of life in prison.
In Ontario, if a child is injured or killed because of "leaving a child unattended", offences under the Criminal Code could also apply including the most serious, criminal negligence causing death.
Neither the provincial traffic laws mentioned nor this provincial Child and Family Services Act law require injury or death before a charge is laid.
I believe such laws are there to prevent injury and death.
(sn)
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 09:27:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4
I don't find JK's writing hard to read- read them twice if you must, you will learn from them. Think them through-they make sense. More then any paid educational class will teach you. (then=than)
Since we have persistently strayed so far from the original topic I choose to include something that may be of use to readers.
Sometimes a poster runs out of content, and especially when offended does not know how to simply pass. One option is to attack the messenger, pick away at grammar or some other frivolous anomaly - such as wanting a round table rather than a square one before discussion even begins.
Look for credentials thrown out like flower pebbles in front of what the person is attempting to present. Some parents are precisely the same way and we know how phony their understanding of the school bus environment can be.
The more sophisticated know to have someone else present their credentials where credentials might be an issue.
Let us never forget that experts with credentials taught me how to spell. When their credentials turned out not adequate, like my spelling can be, public educators answer was not to discredit the author's credentials and to restore to the affected kids with phonics training. Instead, people with credentials gave my classmates and myself excellent grades and quietly exited us out the door while quietly ending the course. Eventually some found genuine experts that helped ease the damage caused by the phony.
The best and worst managers may have the same credentials, but not the same sensibilities. Private business can not tolerate managers unable to apply their credentials except perhaps those that are government funded businesses. But even some of those do not last longer than profit-minded investors would prefer - the service eventually becoming impossible to accommodate or somehow continue to support excuses that might maintain that service a while longer.
Regardless, the profit may be adequate to keep the process going when finding enough marks to support the service or product.
I have a few infomercial items that simply do not work. The 100-percent money back is phony (requiring the purchaser to force a refund through the credit card provider). The product guarantees are phony and the product itself is phony. Yet, the product continues to be sold nationwide with what seems no end to available marks eager to purchase the product.
A little research can help separate out the genuine from the phony - something even school boards often fail to perform adequately. When too eager to save a buck, or make a profit or achieve the impossible the critical eye can go blind rather quickly.
The most effective way to know what is phony is first to know what is genuine. When not possible to know what is genuine you may be able to find someone most likely genuine that does know what is genuine. (jk)
Quackwatch - Your Guide to Quackery, Health Fraud, and Intelligent Decisions such as jucing.
How to Protect Yourself From Infomercial Fraud | More phony products and services.
Ten Stupid Things Managers Do To Screw Up Performance Appraisal
Stupid Thing #3: Forgetting appraisal is about improvement, not blame.
We do appraisals to improve performance, not find a donkey to pin a tail on or blame. Managers who forget this end up developing staff who don't trust them, or even can't stand them. That's because the blaming process if pointless, and doesn't help anyone. If there is to be a point to performance appraisal it should be getting manager and employee working together to have everyone get better. Click Here for source |
Edited by - JK on 12/02/2006 7:39:28 PM |
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CPCSC_TD
Top Member
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 1:11:55 PM
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JK- I can't believe you brought up performance reviews. I just wrote a 20 page final research paper on that topic. Needless to say, our minds think parallel on that.
I opened with this famous quote- "A good coach will make his players see what they can be rather than what they are." -- Ara Parasheghian, Notre Dame Football coach.
Pretty truthful, huh?
Sound like most transportation management does the opposite- hence your phrase, Save the Industry. Couldn't agree these are hand in hand anymore.
Perhaps, the TD of Whitmor will have to proove she made everyone see what they could be- of course, she would have to proove hwo she made this happen.
I agree, save the industry |
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Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
Top Member
Canada
1180 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 2:41:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JK
Nine out of ten children drown while supervised.
James, drowning statistics are explained in detail in the WRITTEN STATEMENT OF BETH-ELLEN CODY, M.P.H., INJURY EPIDEMIOLOGY MANAGER, NATIONAL SAFE KIDS CAMPAIGN ON SWIMMING POOL SAFETY dated July 27, 2004. This document states:
*"In 88 percent of drowning cases reviewed, the victim was under some form of supervision when he or she drowned..."
*"Supervision was defined as being in the care of another individual, not necessarily in his or her direct line of sight..."
*"These results are consistent with past studies indicating that childhood drownings and near-drownings typically occur when a child is left unattended or during a brief lapse in supervision."
*"...nearly all parents (94 percent) reported that they always actively supervise their children while swimming. However, deeper examination revealed that parents participated in a variety of distracting behaviors while supervising..."
(sn)
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 2:51:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
*"...nearly all parents (94 percent) reported that they always actively supervise their children while swimming. However, deeper examination revealed that parents participated in a variety of distracting behaviors while supervising..."
(sn)
Yes, Yes ... distraction was the point, not the level of supervision. Distraction leading to death can occure with both the adult and the child. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
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There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
Edited by - JK on 12/02/2006 2:58:43 PM |
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Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
Top Member
Canada
1180 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 3:03:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JK
quote:
Originally posted by Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
*"...nearly all parents (94 percent) reported that they always actively supervise their children while swimming. However, deeper examination revealed that parents participated in a variety of distracting behaviors while supervising..."
(sn)
Yes, Yes ... distraction was the point, not the level of supervision. (jk)
I understand, James. It reminds me of the statements from Ontario's education officials who loudly proclaim that children are supervised on the school bus by their school bus drivers - this while drivers are already fully engaged in the high-risk activity of driving a large commercial vehicle - and in spite of the fact that drivers cannot see all the children over the high seat backs in their overhead mirrors.
[sn]
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 3:42:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CPCSC_TD
... I opened with this famous quote- "A good coach will make his players see what they can be rather than what they are." -- Ara Parasheghian, Notre Dame Football coach. ...
Excellent.
On the bus and when telling kids what they are - little brats and monsters that will never change, cultivates a bus full of little brats and monsters that can be difficult to change.
My bus is a clam, safe place for children and a non-hostile workplace for myself, the result of telling kids over and over that they are intelligent human beings that are fully capable of following the simple expectations on this bus.
“Do not attempt to deceive me. I know full well that you know what is expected and are fully capable of following those simple expectations. Was that not the case then what are you doing on this bus? Do not attempt to deceive me again.”
Warm and fuzzy may work for some – but clarity and encouragement can most often work for the most difficult. Timing often seems the key to success.
Escorting a child to the office for malbehavior most certainly has its place and is a necessary and effective way toward calming the bus environment.
Regardless, do not forget the power of factual praise when a difficult child meets the expectation. I’ve sent young children to the school office with an escort to report to whoever would listen that the child is one of the best-behaved kids on the bus. Can be much more powerful than when having a difficult child escorted to the office for malbehavior. Again, timing is everything.
Kids and adults can become what they are properly encouraged to become - whatever that might be can come an abundance of talent that is present on every school bus to fulfill that sort of prophecy.
Want the worst school bus drivers a fleet can produce? Some appear to want that. They follow every rule to make that happen. Here’s the simplest way:
Simply provide them with a bozo manager that knows nothing about interdependent relationships, that only knows how to ridicule, attack and blame the bus drivers and knows nothing genuine about encouragement and effective support.
All have most likely experienced the phony manager at some point in our lives – often the one's with welfare syndrome. They present themselves as loving the crowd, but hate the individual.
No mystery here either.
PS: Would like to read that 20 page final research paper. (jk)
"Independent thinking alone is not suited to interdependent reality. Independent people who do not have the maturity to think and act interdependently may be good individual producers, but they won't be good leaders or team players. They're not coming from the paradigm of interdependence necessary to succeed in marriage, family, or organizational reality." --Stephen Covey
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Edited by - JK on 12/02/2006 4:02:38 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 3:51:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
... I understand, James. It reminds me of the statements from Ontario's education officials who loudly proclaim that children are supervised on the school bus by their school bus drivers - this while drivers are already fully engaged in the high-risk activity of driving a large commercial vehicle - and in spite of the fact that drivers cannot see all the children over the high seat backs in their overhead mirrors.
[sn]
Yes, Yes - again. And you are a parent, not a school bus driver.
How did a parent become wiser than so many of Ontario's education officials in this matter? (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 4:42:25 PM
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Getting into the fray, I've already said that I don't agree with this early childhood stuff, so in that, I agree with JK. However, the reality today is not necessary that people live above their means, but that one salary wont even provide a decent level of comfort, let alone decent shelter and lodging for a typical family. I guess I could be cynical and say that if you can't afford a nice place to live, live in a paper box and don't have children. How disgusting is that, JK? Or is it? There's points I agree with on all sides of this topic, but James, I have to ask why would you disagree with someone's culture? We don't all have to live within your vision of what is, or is not, acceptable or right.
Labelling something you don't agree with as rubbish is both boorish, pompous and somewhat unfortunate, because you can gleam knowledge from many points of view, and I have noticed many points that made sense to me labelled as rubbish.
As much as we would like to go back to the good old days, forget that. Adjust to the society you inhabit right now and strive to make things safe for our children and ourselves, whether on school buses or not. |
William |
Edited by - william on 12/02/2006 9:14:27 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 7:48:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by william
... Adjust to the society you inhabit right now and strive to make things safe for our children and ourselves, whether on school buses or not.
The good ole' days? When you feel the safest, have no reason to fear, and peace seems everywhere - you probably are not safe. Have a nice day.(jk)
Free 'post-check' image: Use free on memos, mini posters, flyer's, newsletters, training materials, websites, bus driver letterheads, in emails and promotions to the press. (Please do not link to graphic - download and save with right mouse click over graphic.)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
Edited by - JK on 12/02/2006 7:56:31 PM |
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CPCSC_TD
Top Member
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 8:13:49 PM
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HE HE- Believe it or not, it was my final term paper- and I finished it two weeks ahead of schedule.
It is at Purdue right now being garded although my professor shed some light- and the light is brighter at the end of the tunnel.
JK- You bring up some valuable points about management skills with students. Perhaps somethign we took as parenting skills in this topic I neglected the management skills of the driver. Thanks for bringing that up.
You remember the days bus driver's called home and made relationships with parents? Those times died and then it became a fear that the bus driver interact with parents.
Well, we brought those days back and have the driver's call the parents. Not for fear of the them knowing the driver's or anything to that matter. We took a risk, and instructed driver's to call parents from the office. What happened? Just as history repeated itself- IT WORKED! Behavior improved with students as we included parents. Granted, not all take it seriously but the majority- 70% worked. Now, if only 70% bought into it, that meant we are 70% further than traiditonal paper trail write ups. Not to say we don't document these because we do for liabiltiy purposes, but we don't make the paper trail as big of a deal. We focus our attention on the communication to working with parents.
Hey, JK mentioned "Kids and adults can become what they are properly encouraged to become -" doesn't this tie into this scenario? If we encourage them because we communciate with them how we expect, how we train, and learn what the parent does I think we have a win win situation. Again, only 70% bought into it but that's a great start.
As a supervisor, I will have to make some decisions how to work with the other 30%. I understand income levels of families, single parents and everything else mixe dinto modernsociety plays a factor, but we tried one event and it made a nudge in the system.
I think the point in very clear- if it isn't working- do something. If you cannot afford where you live, move! If your kids aren't receiving the best educaiton, look at alternates.
I think it is obvious, that those who have single parents have better relationships with their children. I am for home schooling if it done with the child's best interest for certain age levels.
More concerned is with this topic, a bus driver that didn't take precautions and a school asministrator who claims they had safe guarded themself. Was the safeguard- it has worked to this point so what were we doing wrong. More importantly, JK help me on this one because I am not sure if I make this sound correctly, but what was the school doing correct as time passed, cultures changed at work, and what did management do to continue ensuring safeguards were rountinely put into place. Was this manager more MacGregor X or Y- I think we know the answer. Perhaps the superintendent will throw Maslows Theory of Hierachy need for security in on this one- always thought that theory was just awful.
Adjusting to our modern society is good, as long as we remember what has worked in the past and found to have repeatidly always worked. Mix the two together. |
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Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
Top Member
Canada
1180 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 9:12:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JK
quote:
Originally posted by Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
... I understand, James. It reminds me of the statements from Ontario's education officials who loudly proclaim that children are supervised on the school bus by their school bus drivers - this while drivers are already fully engaged in the high-risk activity of driving a large commercial vehicle - and in spite of the fact that drivers cannot see all the children over the high seat backs in their overhead mirrors.
[sn]
Yes, Yes - again. And you are a parent, not a school bus driver.
How did a parent become wiser than so many of Ontario's education officials in this matter? (jk)
Definitely not wiser - simply not as committed to upholding a faulty structure. It is sometimes easier to see cracks in a foundation from the outside.
Alternately, one could think of Hans Christian Andersen's fable The Emperor's New Clothes. As Wikipedia explains it: "The story is ... used to express a concept of 'truth seen by the eyes of a child', an idea that truth is often spoken by a person too naïve to understand group pressures to see contrary to the obvious." (sn)
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Edited by - Sandra (Ennis) Nunn on 12/02/2006 9:25:16 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 01:39:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
... a concept of 'truth seen by the eyes of a child', an idea that truth is often spoken by a person too naïve to understand group pressures to see contrary to the obvious."
Would doubt this fits you or others that have experienced what too many have been forced to endure. Definitely not naïve.
I do not believe for a moment that most officials are naïve at all. There is specific purpose to upholding a faulty structure. There are a multitude of alternatives that more closely fit these groups.
A big one is the fear of escalating liability outcomes were it officially acknowledged that current school bus environments are often too unsafe for children and the workplaces too hostile for the school bus drivers. Such would also represent a direct attack against themselves and their resources.
Officials seem only to attack specific extreme facilities, so extreme it can be viewed by the public as separate from the norm. Some are so obvious - a sudden press release to shut down a facility after the owner has already announced closing the service.
Crash investigator training invests considerable effort into making the trainee investigator aware of these liability issues - to generalize in a sense so as not to incite the entire industry.
Even when reporting for public consumption a multitude of violations, concerning school buses State-wide, in the same report will be found the staement that the school buses are safe.
When it comes to some easy and economical fix, such as the guard rail issue catching on backpack and coat ties, the rampage to update represents a fever or a wildfire to modify the defect. There is no offense toward their resources, instantly eases a serious mechanical defect and liability issue, demonstrates a form of caring to the public, which makes for a win-win for all involved.
What you know and what I know are not somehow leaving most officials in unawares - There are too many in the hierarchy that are fully aware but choose the activity to suppress, modify and redirect threats. This better fits a certain deliberate activity and is not naïve in that sense.
To understand these things and to present them in open forum simply does not cause most officials to come running for advice on how to change that, although some quietly contact me as probably has been the case in your adventure. Behind the scenes there is hidden tension in high places.
Children may fit the concept of naïve, their ideas immature and people pleasing. Some adults fit here as well. But overall, I do not accept that most adults are naïve, per say. Ignorant and allowed to remain that way, or deliberately deceived concerning the school bus environments may be more accurate. A lie can save a lot of explanation. And believing a lie can accomplish the same thing.
One of the main investigators of the Columbine murders mentioned in a college seminar, concerning identifying and implementing model violence prevention programs, said, "Saying what you think is a sign of immaturity."
In a college paper I wrote this response, "Not saying what you think is often a sign of a politician."
Politicians and bureaucrats protecting their resources (representing certain interests) can take preference over safety. I would suspect you are fully aware of that reality by now.
Dorothy, the main character in the Wizard of Oz movie was naive. Regardless, she demonstrated that she was determined and resourceful, and that she's loyal. I have no doubt that had she woke up in DC and engaged in conversation with a few politicians, she might well have said to her pet, "Toto, I don't think we are in Kansas anymore."
Had Dorthy woke up in DC she would have had to learn that it takes a lot more than a bucket of cold water to kill a wicked witch. In DC it would take more volunteer votes in support of Dorthy than the votes the competition could buy for themselves. (jk)
Free 'post-check' image: Use free on memos, mini posters, flyer's, newsletters, training materials, websites, bus driver letterheads, in emails and promotions to the press. (Please do not link to graphic - download and save with right mouse click over graphic.)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Edited by - JK on 12/03/2006 02:25:32 AM |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 04:24:59 AM
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Lords, I am sorry for not making myself more clear <I did not ask the school bus drivers from Newport the statistics of Newport> I already knew this information. There are only 1300 children in Newport under the age of 18 living in poverty (as of 2000- Compared to almost 18,000 in Providence- The data is almost 7 years old, so I am not sure how much it has changed.)
http://www.rikidscount.org/matriarch/documents/childpoverty.pdf
It's nice that Laidlaw "gave" the city new buses- but believe me- Laidlaw-doesn't just give the city new buses, they do so because they are required to in the contract.
I'm going to stick to the original topic- |
Edited by - 80-RE4 on 12/03/2006 04:37:35 AM |
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 11:10:04 AM
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Matt, thanks for posting the document. It says QUITE a bit.
In 2000, there were 1223 kids under 18 living in poverty, only up a mere 3.5% in 10 years which isn't too bad. But of those 1223 kids, 62% of them were listed as a minority. I just thought that was a shocking figure. Many of those parents are either receiving help from the governemnt, or working at Walmart or something similar. Many are single parents too. But what was really interesting to me... check out the figures from Middletown, the neighboring town. Only 6.2% poverty in 2000. Its amazing what a town border can do. And i believe i know exactly where they are living in Newport too, horrible living conditions, some not suitable for a rat, although the city has been building new section 8 housing. But its all they can afford.
James and another have suggested just move to another part of the country thats more affordable. That certainly would be one way to combat the situation, but how does an entire family who's scraping for cash simply pack up all their belongings and move? Some planning would be necessary first, planning that requires money. They would have to go to the area first and scope out a place to live, maybe go on a job interview or 2. Maybe check out a school for the children. So, packing up and moving seems like a good idea, but there is a little more involved in doing so than meets the eye, and takes money that the family is already lacking.
And also, I was in Newport last night as a matter of fact. And I must revise my statement I posted earlier about Laidlaw. Newport did not replace the entire fleet with new IC CE's, I would estimate about half. I passed by their bus yard and saw a mix of both the Amtran RE's AND IC CE's. But feel free to come on down to Newport, I'll show you around and take you out for a drink. I have a feeling you'd probably change your mind about it... (after finals of course) |
- Ryan |
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CPCSC_TD
Top Member
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 11:37:11 AM
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James and another have suggested just move to another part of the country thats more affordable. That certainly would be one way to combat the situation, but how does an entire family who's scraping for cash simply pack up all their belongings and move?
Simple- use friends from community, family, church members- plenty of people always willing to help. I did it once in less than 3 days when I took a job out of state.
For some, it may take a few days more which is fine. If they realize their choices are leaving them in poor conditions, spend more time immediately getting the heck out fo their condition and in better positions.
I have found some rental homes in great njeighborhoods, with great schools far less than section 8- again choices people make.
Some planning would be necessary first, planning that requires money.
$.99- Pencil and notepad. OKay, $1.99 pencil, paper, and weekend newspaper. Need newspaper to schedule interviews and find cheap rental homes or better neighborhoods. Plus reading the apper would eb good for these involved to keep active on current events or special move in offers.
2. Maybe check out a school for the children.
Here's an easier way that takes about an hour- go to the library in your community, check out statistical data online.This would be free and simple- plus you can then ask those in the library for their input.
So far, we are up to $1.99
So, packing up and moving seems like a good idea, but there is a little more involved in doing so than meets the eye, and takes money that the family is already lacking.
I should hope so, that's why a written plan and personal mission statement gets you places in life.
Can't give in on the money issue- I was once one of those with no money and somehow did it. I had a plan and mission and made it happen. Even WalMart pays employees- that's better than nothing. |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 12:26:37 PM
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Don't get me started on Wal-Mart! Wal-Mart is a horrible place. Please read the book Nickel and Dimed, or the Working Poor.
Let's take Wal-Mart...We all know how much money they rack in, but that company refuses to pay good wages, refuses to offer health insurance, has in the past locked their employees inside the warehouses, etc.
I've got to stop right there, because this isn't a forum about Wal-Mart. PS: Could you use my user name "Amtran80 or 80AmtranRE" or Amtran please.
Thank you for pointing those things out Lords.
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 12:40:21 PM
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quote:
2. Maybe check out a school for the children.
Here's an easier way that takes about an hour- go to the library in your community, check out statistical data online.This would be free and simple- plus you can then ask those in the library for their input.
So far, we are up to $1.99
Well, I was thinking if you're moving across the country, you'd have to get out there first. Maybe have to pay for an airline ticket or two, or gas if you're driving. Maybe a train or bus ticket. Then when you DO move, you have the actual moving expenses (rental truck or hiring movers and so on).
Church, friends and outreach is a good start... hopefully will get you all the way. You've managed to do it, seemingly with relative ease. May not be so easy with others. But then you'd also could potentially be leaving all your friends and family behind. Many would not want to sacrafice that. Many would not want to sacrafice relying on a telephone or mail as the only means to contact their family. Its not so cut and dry for some people.
My apologies Amtran. |
- Ryan |
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CPCSC_TD
Top Member
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 12:49:58 PM
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Many would not want to sacrafice relying on a telephone or mail as the only means to contact their family. Its not so cut and dry for some people.
Move on the other side of town. Sure, your status may change but we live to be happy. We have to make decisions to be happy.
May not be so easy with others. But then you'd also could potentially be leaving all your friends and family behind. Many would not want to sacrafice that.
I did and so did thousands of others. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices in life to move forward and move up- or be happy. If you choose not to, then you have no one other than yourself to be upset with.
Well, I was thinking if you're moving across the country, you'd have to get out there first. Maybe have to pay for an airline ticket or two, or gas if you're driving. Maybe a train or bus ticket. Then when you DO move, you have the actual moving expenses (rental truck or hiring movers and so on).
I moved over 500 miles. Granted, that's not cross country but when you don't have much- but a few dollars, you make ends meet. If you don't have money- you do it yourself. Can't rely on others all the time and honestly, it is not that hard to physcially do it yourself. Mentally, like loosing a love one, a great job or pet, you have to move on and forward. You could always stay and not live up to status quo or have the best schools, but then again, it's what you choose.
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Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
Top Member
Canada
1180 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 1:05:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JK
quote:
Originally posted by Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
... a concept of 'truth seen by the eyes of a child', an idea that truth is often spoken by a person too naïve to understand group pressures to see contrary to the obvious."
Would doubt this fits you or others that have experienced what too many have been forced to endure. Definitely not naïve.
You are right James, I am no longer naïve in this regards. But I can't claim to have experienced anywhere near the degree of pain that my nephew and his wife suffered at the death of their sweet little girl onboard her school bus. (sn)
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 2:28:07 PM
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| I was stationed at the naval air station at Quonset Point, RI, and I can't remember having worse weather any place I've been, including the North Atlantic Ocean. One facet of my job was to take prisoners to the naval brig In Newport, RI, which is where some of these people who would put defenseless children in harm's way probably belong. I bet those marine grunts could get the message across to these bozos in a hurry. |
William |
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 4:48:03 PM
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Hahaha... they certainly can be very intimidating, especially when you drive through the gate to get on base and they are armed with assault rifles. How long ago were you stationed at Quonset? (It's desolate now... only a handful of C-130's).
CPCSC_TD: I never said it was impossible to do... just tougher for some than others. Myself, I chose to live where I live now because all of my friends and family are within a half hour drive. I spend time with my parents every Sunday. I couldn't imagine how difficult it would be for me to pack up and move somewhere and not be able to be close to my parents - especially if there was ever any type of emergency. I understand not everyone is like me, or you. We all have our choices to make and we all weigh our values differently. Point being: its not an easy decision to just pack up and move, and some could never subject themselves to make the decision. Glad things worked out ok for you.
Sandra - I'm terribly sorry for your nephew and family's loss. |
- Ryan |
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Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
Top Member
Canada
1180 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 6:20:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lords47
Sandra - I'm terribly sorry for your nephew and family's loss.
Thank you Lords47. (sn) |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 8:19:49 PM
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| Lords, I was at Quonset 1961-1963. Not to contribute to or rekindle your grief, Sandra, but I have never been able to get the picture of that little girl out of my mind. Sometimes when I am particularly passionate about child safety, it's because I remember her. |
William |
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MI - Toddler Left on Whitmore Lake School Bus
