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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
 Posted - 05/15/2012 : 09:44:24 AM
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| What kind of experiences are you guys having with student sash windows? I seem to be having trouble with every brand we have. It is worse on the newer buses than the older ones. I had problems with the old Carpenters, when we had them, but that was understandable because that was a shoddy company in the first place. But the big three, as I call them, should b putting a better product out there than this. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 09:50:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bwest
I had problems with the old Carpenters, when we had them, but that was understandable because that was a shoddy company in the first place.
We have the winner for the 2012 line of the year. Didn't you win once for telling someone to "run, not walk, run away from that" (Ford bus with LG brakes)?
What troubles are you experiencing?
I have to say that it SEEMS like Thomas' C2 windows are FINALLY a good product.
No problems to report with my newer Blue Bird windows other than they rattle like nothing else in the world. |
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Sherm
Top Member
USA
621 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 11:28:46 AM
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| Our worst buses window-wise belonged at some point to drivers who put windows up from the outside with a broom handle. Running those plastic nubs up and down the frame without pushing them in first wears them down; then they don't stay up. |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 12:16:14 PM
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| I replace a lot of the aluminum slide locks from being bent. The windows in this frootliner/bb I have are so tall and long they just bend over time. I keep all my windows siliconed every year. If they don't slide shut with a broom handle easy...STOP and fix the dang thing right? The newer visions have that plastic that pops out time to time. I have a bag full BB gave me. Most of the time I find gray sealant in the tracks from factory goofs. Sometimes I see some bent frames (like maybe a mallet was used on a tight fit). Windows can be a "pane" LOL. |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 12:29:03 PM
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| Oh come now, a bus factory would NEVER force something to fit! hahahah My one mechanic described engine compartment of a new bus as "Ten gallons of **** in a five gallon pail." |
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raytobe
Advanced Member
USA
293 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 12:33:12 PM
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| Latch tips break left and right, then window won't stay up on the newer CEs. Pain in the butt to get out with the sticky as heck black sealant they put on them that gets all over the seats most of the time.. Big mess. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 1:02:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sherm
Our worst buses window-wise belonged at some point to drivers who put windows up from the outside with a broom handle. Running those plastic nubs up and down the frame without pushing them in first wears them down; then they don't stay up.
The people closing the windows from the inside seldom push the plastic latches in either. IMO the plastic latches wear out from the kids running the window sashes down like they are "pile drivers" |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 1:04:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by raytobe
Latch tips break left and right, then window won't stay up on the newer CEs. Pain in the butt to get out with the sticky as heck black sealant they put on them that gets all over the seats most of the time.. Big mess.
I agree on the sticky black goo but i have yet to see a CE bus that you had to remove the window assembly to replace the latches. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 1:52:41 PM
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If they can't take the "running up without pushing in the latch" then they can't be made very well. It seems to me that the best window out there, when I was having trouble with those Carpenters, was a BB. I recall talking to a BB salesman years ago and he told me they were made in house. I noticed now they have been moved to a third party supplier.
Thomasbus24, I'm not sure how to take that. Yes I did tell people to "run, not walk, run" away from LG brakes. I call 'em like I sees 'em. lol I've probably told this story before but in 1994 we bought a new Carpenter with a Ford chassis. That thing rattled worse than a 1982 BB we had. I vowed that if I could help it we would never buy a Carpenter again, we never did. |
Bryan |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 3:26:56 PM
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| I was my lame attempt at humor. I enjoy how you expected trouble from a Carpenter since it was a shoddy bus. After this day in hell, I would welcome an old Carpenter back though. |
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raytobe
Advanced Member
USA
293 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 5:38:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fastback
quote:
Originally posted by raytobe
Latch tips break left and right, then window won't stay up on the newer CEs. Pain in the butt to get out with the sticky as heck black sealant they put on them that gets all over the seats most of the time.. Big mess.
I agree on the sticky black goo but i have yet to see a CE bus that you had to remove the window assembly to replace the latches.
Please do tell how the heck you change the latches without taking the window out? You have to take the top rail off and the only way to do that is to take the screws out-- that I can see.
OK, I see. Thanks for mentioning that. I swear, I've done at least six by taking the window out... just the way I've always done it on the older busses. Learn something everyday-- If you're lucky.
Yeah, I kinda feel like an old guy I ran into in the early 80's. He was taking the whole heater box assy out from inside the bus to change the heater motors on late 70 busses. I told him to follow me and led him to the outside of the bus where the access panel for the heater motors was. He probably felt then as I feel now in this situation.
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Edited by - raytobe on 05/16/2012 05:22:47 AM |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 06:46:19 AM
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Older BB with the in house built windows you had to disassemble the window. Newer ones come out the front.
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“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 07:11:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24
I was my lame attempt at humor. I enjoy how you expected trouble from a Carpenter since it was a shoddy bus. After this day in hell, I would welcome an old Carpenter back though.
As for simplicity of construction and operation, I think you are correct. But the reality was that they did not have a very long service life. (yes you can keep one patched together, but I'm not talking "patching together" here)
I appreciate your humor too!  |
Bryan |
Edited by - bwest on 05/16/2012 07:12:00 AM |
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wjbusguy
Active Member
United States
42 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 11:16:59 AM
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Every IC bus in our fleet from 2005 and newer has window problems. It starts after 2 years, warrantee is one year on the windows. The latches wear out fast but in addition to that, the plastic slides that are glued into each side of the moveable window frame come loose and like to work their way down and out of the channel and cause binding so the window sits crooked in the frame and the latch on the low side wont go up all the way and latch. They eventually work out the bottom and fall out. I think they quoted me around 16 dollars each for the little plastic u shaped piece. IC has a tech bulletin out for the repairs, what you do is drill a hole near the top on the channel and catch the bottom screw of the two upper screws that holds the frame together to secure it. To do that repair, you have to take the window out and take the top of the frame apart to access it. The latches are easy to replace, just push the little pin down and slide the latches to the center to remove and replace. I have taken my utility knife and cut about a 1/16th off the latch so it can go out a little further and that seems to help too. Its a pain and I have 180 windows to go through this summer...yuk!
Mike |
Edited by - wjbusguy on 05/16/2012 11:21:24 AM |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 11:26:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wjbusguy
Every IC bus in our fleet from 2005 and newer has window problems. It starts after 2 years, warrantee is one year on the windows. The latches wear out fast but in addition to that, the plastic slides that are glued into each side of the moveable window frame come loose and like to work their way down and out of the channel and cause binding so the window sits crooked in the frame and the latch on the low side wont go up all the way and latch. They eventually work out the bottom and fall out. I think they quoted me around 16 dollars each for the little plastic u shaped piece. IC has a tech bulletin out for the repairs, what you do is drill a hole near the top on the channel and catch the bottom screw of the two upper screws that holds the frame together to secure it. To do that repair, you have to take the window out and take the top of the frame apart to access it. The latches are easy to replace, just push the little pin down and slide the latches to the center to remove and replace. I have taken my utility knife and cut about a 1/16th off the latch so it can go out a little further and that seems to help too. Its a pain and I have 180 windows to go through this summer...yuk!
Mike
Hopefully the new redesigned windows will solve your issues |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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slippert
Top Member
USA
630 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 6:30:16 PM
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So when did they redesign? As the 2012IC's we have are so tight against rubber in the top you can only get one side to latch unless you really put alot of muscle into pushing them up. Seem to be the same as previous years. Needless to say most of the time they are left crooked by the drivers.
Bluebird salesman told me a few years ago that the windows were made for ic by the same manufacture that made carpenters windows? |
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bluebirdvision
Top Member
USA
1081 Posts |
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slippert
Top Member
USA
630 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 7:55:14 PM
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Wasn't sure at the time if it was just a sales technic by him. At that time he told me birds were made by someone else can't remember now who he said, this would probably have been back in 2008 or 09
Really have not had alot of issues with my 2005 to 07 IC windows but from 08 and up has been a different story.
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Edited by - slippert on 05/16/2012 7:59:55 PM |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2012 : 06:00:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by slippert
So when did they redesign? As the 2012IC's we have are so tight against rubber in the top you can only get one side to latch unless you really put alot of muscle into pushing them up. Seem to be the same as previous years. Needless to say most of the time they are left crooked by the drivers.
Not sure when, not sure if it was near the same time as the improved entrance door, possibly 2013s as dealers have them on the lots now.
Passenger window "improvements" include; changes in thumb latch material and stronger springs, moving vertical rail and seal now made from "coextruded composite to improve moving/sliding operation" and maybe the most readily seen change will be a "bulb" seal that replaces the "frock" seal between the stationary and moving sash. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
Edited by - Fastback on 05/17/2012 06:09:22 AM |
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wjbusguy
Active Member
United States
42 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2012 : 06:33:21 AM
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| I did some research last year on IC windows and tracked down the window mfg. It took a few phone calls to the company that I though made the windows and what a regional sales man told me is his company only makes the extrusions and they sell it to IC and IC puts the windows together in house. Another reason I think we have had so many window issues is the fact that we are a rural district and almost half of our 70 to 110 mile daily routes are on gravel roads that are solid washboards because of all the farmer's semi traffic. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2012 : 08:04:03 AM
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| I had a non air ride, heavy laminated side glass, 2004 IC FE that was hell on the window latches. Our air ride ICs with the lighter tempered side glass do not give us much trouble with the passenger windows. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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JRob
Advanced Member
207 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2012 : 3:15:45 PM
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All the manufacturers used to buy the aluminum extrusions for the frames from an outside vendor and build the windows in house. Nowadays, most outsource the whole process.
Wells/NAARCO aluminum used to do all the extrusions for a variety of body companies and they even built full assemblies.
Spectal builds windows for Thomas, Blue Bird, MicroBird (Girardin), and Lion. I think IC still may do their own assembly in-house. Starquest does windows for Trans Tech and I've heard good reviews of that window. Not sure what Collins does but I suspect they outsource. Hehr did Carpenter windows in the mid-90's and they were problematic to say the least. Hehr currently builds the Thomas HDX emergency window and they used to build IC's as well. Those things have issues as well. To my knowledge, they are not currently building side sash for an OEM. |
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bluebirdvision
Top Member
USA
1081 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2012 : 4:17:57 PM
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Hehr built the windows in my last 2 Jayco RVs. They were problematic as well.
I've noticed our Blue Birds from 2009 (2010 MY) have much tighter fitting windows. Maybe its just wishful thinking lol
Who builds the "Charter Style" Windows for the Thomas EF? These are horrible, Very hard to slide open (for ventilation) and the cables on the emergency egress portion stretch easily, making it very hard to shut them when checking them during pre-trip. |
Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_212311114614&ap=1
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Edited by - bluebirdvision on 05/17/2012 4:20:30 PM |
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Admin
Administrator
USA
1662 Posts |
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Windows
