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josef
New Member

6 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2010 :  05:50:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello everyone, what a great site! I am hopeing you might beable to help me figure out what a couple of instrument panel cluster bulbs go to.

I took out my instrument cluster to replace the backlight bulbs that were burnt out. There were eight out all together. I noticed though that there are two indicator lights separate from the circuit board that were already pulled out of the back of the panel, so I am not sure where they go to.



One of them has a white wire and a grey wire labeled 19L
The other has two grey wires one labeled 19K and 19B



The bus is a 1997 Thomas / International 3800 / DT466E
Details:
VIN Last 8: VH507308
Product: TBB Conventional
CHASSIS ID: 41223
BODY ID: 59338-9801213-C-1010S
Body Serial No: 1375
Base Model: 1010S
Model Year: 1997
Build Location: High Point, NC
Vocation: SCHOOL BUS


Looking at the cluster, there are 4 places that they likely fit.
The 4 upper left holes (in white area) are the right side when looking at the front
WATER IN FUEL
FUEL FILTER
PTO
LOW BRAKE FLUID

The 4 lower left holes in (white area) are the left when looking at the front
RETARD ON
RETARD OVER HEAT
CHANGE TRANS FLUID
ALTENATOR





from: http://www.internationaltrucks.com/InternationalTrucks/PageContent/Fleet%20Diagnostic%20Software/assets/NEWIPCMANUAL.PDF

The two lights don't come on when I turn my headlights on, so I don't think they are just more back lights.

when I turn the key one click to the right and stays on until I actually start the engine, after which it stays lit for almost exactly 5 seconds before going out again. The other one with two grey wires never comes on at all.

The sequence of the lights on start up is as follows:
When I first turn the ignition one click to the right the Oil/Water light comes on for a moment along with the warn engine light and both go out. The brake light also lights and stays on because the brake is engaged. The extra light (with the white and grey lead labeled 19L) stays lit for 5 seconds after starting the engine and then goes out.

Can anyone provide suggestions or advice on what these two bulbs really are and/or how I might trip these sensors without actually creating the respective condition to test them?

Edited by - josef on 05/03/2010 05:58:07 AM

WillWho
Active Member

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2010 :  2:13:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit WillWho's Homepage  Send WillWho an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Does your Wait-to-Start indicator have a bulb in it? You didn't mention that light when first turning the key to the "on" position. If that is not illuminating, then it sounds like 19L is for that lamp. I will check the color on the back of my cluster tonight and post back when I know the color and or number combination. I will try to find the number and color combinations on all of the lights. I have a 1999 3600 Vista, which should be identical for dash lights.


Will

It's not worthing doing if you're not having fun.

When the kids ask how old I am, I tell them, "Old enough to have helped create the formula for dirt, but young enough to still enjoy playing in it."
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78fordwayne
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USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2010 :  3:41:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
He has a DT466E. So no thats not it.

Robert B.

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raytobe
Advanced Member

USA
293 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2010 :  4:14:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit raytobe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think one of them is for the ABS warning light and the other is unused. I could be wrong of course but that's what comes to mind.
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WillWho
Active Member

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2010 :  9:18:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit WillWho's Homepage  Send WillWho an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Could be that they are different, but I looked anyway. I only have two lights in top holes of the right side white plastic thing. There are two wires to each light, all but one of the wires is gray, the other wire is white. The Fuel Filter light has two gray wires, one labeled 19B and the other 19K. The Water in Fuel light has one white wire labeled 19GA (at least it looks like a G) and the other wire is gray with 19L on it.

I forgot to take the print out of your post, so I could not remember which lights you said illuminated when you turned the key to "on." I do not remember the water in Fuel light coming on at all either with the key turned to "on" or once the engine starts.

I used your picture to show where each of the lights went on my bus, but I cannot figure out how to post a picture in a reply. : /

I am sort of glad that your post got me to pull the cluster. I have been putting off replacing some of the back light bulbs. That was accomplished tonight, so thank you for getting moving on that little project! :)

It's not worthing doing if you're not having fun.

When the kids ask how old I am, I tell them, "Old enough to have helped create the formula for dirt, but young enough to still enjoy playing in it."
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B. Busguy33
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USA
3444 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2010 :  07:22:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit B. Busguy33's Homepage  Send B. Busguy33 an AOL message  Send B. Busguy33 a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
I think one of them is for the ABS warning light and the other is unused. I could be wrong of course but that's what comes to mind.


Being a 1997 model year with hydraulic brakes, this bus probably isn't equipped with ABS brakes. Hydraulic brakes with ABS became a requirement in 1998.
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raytobe
Advanced Member

USA
293 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2010 :  5:35:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit raytobe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by B. Busguy33

quote:
I think one of them is for the ABS warning light and the other is unused. I could be wrong of course but that's what comes to mind.


Being a 1997 model year with hydraulic brakes, this bus probably isn't equipped with ABS brakes. Hydraulic brakes with ABS became a requirement in 1998.



Yeah, you're right. There is an ABS hole in the cluster though. I've worked on these things before but memory has faded so I can't say what the hot one is for but I do remember that one of the two went unused-- at least on the ones I worked. Strange nobody can answer this right away.
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josef
New Member

6 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  07:49:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by WillWho

The Fuel Filter light has two gray wires, one labeled 19B and the other 19K. The Water in Fuel light has one white wire labeled 19GA (at least it looks like a G) and the other wire is gray with 19L on it.



Thank you WillWho!

Okay! These match what I have! Thank you so much for taking the time to pull your ipc off to look! (glad you got you bulbs replaced too!) You rock!

So now, just curious .... the white/gray-19L is the "Water in Fuel" light .... Does your WIF light stay lit for about 5 seconds after the engine starts? Or is it telling me something?

Also what makes the fuel filter light come on? Dirty filter, excess number of hours, anything else?

1997 TBB 65 pass / International 3800 DT466E / AT545 / Axle: N190 4.44 / 11R22.5 Tires
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josef
New Member

6 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  08:05:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it! :)

@raytobe, @B. Busguy33

I don't think my bus has ABS, but it does have hydraulic disc brakes front and rear.



@WillWho, @78fordwayne

Thanks for the other info ... On your first reply, Yes the Wait-to-Start does have a working bulb in it. It never comes on though. I am not certain but I hear the DT466E does not use glow plugs, and therefore wouldn't come on like @78fordwayne noted.



@All,



Is it normal for the WIF light to stay lit for about 5 seconds after the engine starts? Is this indicating anything, or just letting me know that the bulb is not burnt out.

Also what makes the fuel filter light come on? Dirty filter, excess number of hours, anything else? and if I have that feature should the fuel filter light, come on for a few seconds when I first turn the ignition on?

1997 TBB 65 pass / International 3800 DT466E / AT545 / Axle: N190 4.44 / 11R22.5 Tires

Edited by - josef on 05/06/2010 08:28:30 AM
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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  08:13:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
On my 2001 International The WIF light only comes on when the key is in the Start position.

You might have a little water in there or thats how the older buses are set up. Not to sure on that one.
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WillWho
Active Member

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2010 :  12:22:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit WillWho's Homepage  Send WillWho an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Hi Josef,

I ran out to the bus garage (very small town so it's only 5-min each way) and the WIF light does not come on at all. Just to be sure, I swapped my Wait-to-Start bulb with it just to be sure that the bulb worked. :) It would be my luck that another bulb went poof and I would give you bad info.

Any of you shop guys have any old books on my 1999 Thomas Vista 3600?


It's not worthing doing if you're not having fun.

When the kids ask how old I am, I tell them, "Old enough to have helped create the formula for dirt, but young enough to still enjoy playing in it."
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kd4jfd
Top Member

USA
1168 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2010 :  07:29:38 AM  Show Profile  Click to see kd4jfd's MSN Messenger address  Send kd4jfd a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I've got the Thomas "electronic help" CD. I can try to e-mail it to you if you wish.

539 - Repair work in progress!
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WillWho
Active Member

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2010 :  02:20:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit WillWho's Homepage  Send WillWho an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Josef,

After I did some troubleshooting on my bus Sunday, I did notice that the WIF light does indeed illuminate once the engine starts. It stays on for a few seconds and goes away. What I was doing was turning the key to "on" and not cranking when I told you the WIF light did not illuminate. Sorry for the bad info. I hope this helped you get those orphan bulbs into the right holes. :)

It's not worthing doing if you're not having fun.

When the kids ask how old I am, I tell them, "Old enough to have helped create the formula for dirt, but young enough to still enjoy playing in it."
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josef
New Member

6 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2010 :  11:22:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@WillWho,

Thank you so much! it does help! I really appreciate you helping me get this resolved!

@kd4jfd, Yes that'd be great if you can email it to me.

If it won't send, email me and we can figure something else out.

1997 TBB 65 pass / International 3800 DT466E / AT545 / Axle: N190 4.44 / 11R22.5 Tires

Edited by - josef on 01/11/2011 3:06:05 PM
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dougyjones
New Member

4 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2011 :  07:27:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit dougyjones's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Try the white to the abs and the grey to water in fuel filter
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