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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
 Posted - 06/26/2006 : 09:54:30 AM
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Hi all,
I've encountered a rather large problem with one of my vehicles, and I'm looking for some estimates from those who know best as to how much this may end up costing me to repair.
It seems that the rear main engine oil seal on one of my vehicles went bad Friday afternoon when I was on a 170+ mile road trip. I made it 108 of the miles before pulling into a truck stop and noticing a considerable amount of engine oil leaking from between the engine and the transmission. (It appeared that it had just started to leak oil there.) I called a mobile mechanic out, and he confirmed that I had a problem that was not repairable on the spot.
Anyway, I had it towed back home, and now, I'm curious (although not enthusiastic because I know it's going to be in the thousands of dollars) to see how much this is going to set me back.
It's a 6V53 Detroit Diesel Engine coupled to an Allison Automatic. I've never had this happen to me before, but as I understand it, the transmission is going to have to be moved out of the way in order to repair the bad seal -- if someone could better explain to me in more detail what the repair entails, I'd appreciate that, too.
My main question is: How many labor hours will this repair require?
Also, could there be any other possibilities that it isn't the real main engine oil seal? I'm only asking because the oil that was leaking out at the time was not warm. It was cool, and that confused me. I checked the engine oil before loading it onto the trailer to head home, and it was reading "Full" on the dipstick. It has not leaked a drop of oil since having it in the shop. I'll know more on Thursday after it gets looked over.
Confused.   |
Edited by - Buskid on 06/26/2006 12:16:38 PM
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IBTMech
Top Member
USA
973 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2006 : 2:51:29 PM
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What did that mechanic who looked at it initially say? It certainly sounds like a rear main seal but it's possible the oil was coming out of the blower drains.
As far as labor hours go a lot depends on the type of bus it's in. |
If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years. |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2006 : 3:13:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IBTMech
What did that mechanic who looked at it initially say? It certainly sounds like a rear main seal but it's possible the oil was coming out of the blower drains.
The mobile mechanic who looked at it was almost certain that it was the rear main seal. He couldn't do much for me at the time, though, so it was left at that. That's when I went ahead and arranged to have it towed home.
Its regular mechanics, however, aren't convinced of that being the problem since it hasn't leaked since being back. Then again, they haven't run it a whole lot. All they told me today was that there was no sign of oil leaking on the trailer it arrived on or on the shop floor where it's been parked. It's scheduled to be looked at on Thursday.
This actually didn't happen to a school bus; this is one of my fire trucks. I've always gotten good advice from the mechanics on here for my school buses, so, I thought I'd give this a go for one of my other vehicles.
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. |
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Craig Thoricht
Senior Member
USA
177 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 03:18:35 AM
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Are you sure that wasn't transmission oil you were seeing? The reason I say that is because I've had several torque converter seals go bad while a bus was going down the road and lose all the tranny oil and turn the transmissions into crispy critters.
There are several reasons why that happens but I would check the flex plate for cracks and the torque converter where the seal rides on the neck going into the pump.
A lot of guys run 15w-40 for transmission oil and I wouldn't be surprised that you could see that in a fire truck.
Regards-
Craig |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 09:12:34 AM
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Hi, Craig. Thanks for the reply.
In all honesty, I thought that I was losing hydraulic oil (for the ladder) when I first saw the leak. It looked more like hydraulic oil than engine oil, but then again, it was hard to tell because the engine oil had just been changed and it was still very clean.
I wish I had taken a picture of where the leak was coming from. It was coming from an "inspection access" on either the flywheel housing or the torque converter -- I'm not sure which of the two it was.
If it's coming from the torque converter, would the oil leaking out be cool or warm? As I said, I had gone about 108 straight miles before pulling off for fuel, and I would've thought any fluid leaking out would at least be warm. Then again, if I knew, I'd probably be able to answer my own questions.  |
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2006 : 04:30:26 AM
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Rear main seal leaks won't correct themselves. If it's not leaking now, it's not the rear seal, I'd bet. However, Detroit 2 stroke engines have breather tubes that can expend good quantities of oil during high RPM operation such as highway driving and it can blow back and "look" like another source. My 6V92's in my commercial bus fleet would drive around town all day and never leak, but on the highway, you'd think it was coming apart! The airbox drain tubes were the area, and they leak at high RPM when the engine gets some piston ring "blow by" causing the crankcase pressure to rise dramatically and forces oil out of the air box drain. Now the DD 53,71 and 92 series engines are different animals, but it could be that the engine has some blow-by causing this issue on the highway.
Good luck. |
Joe
Land of the Free, because of the Brave! |
Edited by - wagonmaster on 06/30/2006 04:30:50 AM |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2006 : 09:50:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wagonmaster
Rear main seal leaks won't correct themselves. If it's not leaking now, it's not the rear seal, I'd bet.
Thanks, Joe! I was hoping that you'd have some advice to offer.
I called the shop this morning, and they haven't been able to find any oil leaks at all. They're going to run it around later this afternoon for a little while to see what'll happen.
The point about it not leaking any oil now is another thing that's causing me to rethink this situation. It's not leaking oil when it's running; it's after you shut it down that the leaking becomes evident (or did, since it hasn't done it since). I realize that this could just be the beginning of the problem, but honestly, I'm starting to not believe the original diagnosis of a bad seal myself now after I've had time to contemplate everything.
I know this isn't the first time you've helped me out with a Detroit Diesel Engine question, and I appreciate you taking the time to help out.
All of you have proved to be a tremendous resource to those of us who are less mechanically minded.  |
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IBTMech
Top Member
USA
973 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2006 : 7:20:37 PM
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I never met a two cycle Detriot Diesel that didn't leak oil. I've worked on 53, 71 and 92 series engines in all manner of trucks and construction equipment. The blower drains are there to drain moisture and oil from the air box, the area between the supercharger and the intake vents of the cylinder liners. Worn blower seals, a partially restricted air cleaner and an extended full throttle run could result on a lot of engine oil blowing out of the air box drain tubes. This is not abnormal for worn two cycle Detroits.
I don't see it so much in the newer ones, but those old 53 and 71s, especially in stationary equipment such as compressors and generators, would leave a puddle of oil. I've replaced a lot of blower seals in the past. |
If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years. |
Edited by - IBTMech on 06/30/2006 7:24:56 PM |
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tlogantx
Senior Member
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2006 : 8:52:36 PM
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Trina:
Where you headed to Dallas? Next time, if you get remotely close to Dallas I have an excellent mechanic who is reasonable and who I trust. He was worked on all my equipment or the Fire museum people could maybe help.
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2006 : 11:33:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tlogantx
Trina:
Where you headed to Dallas? Next time, if you get remotely close to Dallas I have an excellent mechanic who is reasonable and who I trust. He was worked on all my equipment or the Fire museum people could maybe help.
I was actually taking the 1949 American LaFrance from my house in Indiana to the National Summer Muster in Columbus, Ohio. I got as far as Richmond, Indiana, with it before we noticed it was leaking. I'm supposed to call the shop next week to see if they were able to find out what could've caused it. |
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ModMech
Top Member
USA
948 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 6:59:51 PM
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One thing I thought of was that is was common to have "wet" flywheel housings, even well into the '80s with the automatics.
Some even had no real converter seal in the trans, it just drained back into the trans sump.
It sounds to me like oil in the airbox, but I am no 2 stroke expert. |
If you want customer service, you NEED an International! |
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ogre
Active Member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 09:50:14 AM
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| Hi, Buskid. I spent 7 years working on nothing but DD. I had the same problem on One that drove me nuts. Every time you shut the 6v71 off a load of oil would pour out of the air box drains. I found the problem when I pulled the heads off. On the 53 and 71's the cam's are in the block next to the air box. A roller had come off a cam follower and got punched through the cam gallery into the air box. When the engine was running the blower provided enough pressure to keep the oil in the cam gallery. But when you shut it down, there was no air pressure in the air box and the cam gallery would drain all its oil into the air box and out the air box drains. I hope this is not your problem, but it sounds like the same condition. Good luck |
My Two Cents |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 11:17:29 AM
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Thanks, ModMech and ogre.
From an owner's standpoint, I can already tell this is going to drive me nuts. It's become one of those problems that doesn't seem to want to let itself be known while it's in the shop.
I called the shop just a little while ago, and they can't find any leaks at all. The one mechanic working on it ran it around town for about an hour, took it back to the shop, and parked it. Nothing. I don't know whether or not that's good news or bad news. I wish it had done something so I would at least have an idea of what happened that day a couple of weeks ago.
The truck is at a Fire Apparatus dealer right now. They do all of the preventative maintenance services on it and such. I'd give the Detroit Diesel/Allison dealer downtown a try, but they tried to rip me such a new one the last time I was there, I'd rather not right now.
I guess I'll just take it around as I had planned to do this summer and keep an eye on it. Thanks again to everyone who replied; I appreciate all of the feedback. You've all given me something new to consider the next time this problem occurs. If anyone can think of any other possible causes, let me know. I'll try to get a picture of the area it was leaking from as soon as I get back in town. |
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IBTMech
Top Member
USA
973 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 6:26:04 PM
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| DDA dealers don't call the 6V53 engines their 'bread and butter' engines for nothing! |
If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years. |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 10:19:10 AM
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Here are some pictures of where it was leaking from; the area where it looks like it's missing a drain plug (is it?). I've been driving it around town for the past three days to try and get it to leak, but it hasn't apart from one of its normal overnight oil drips.
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Rear Main Seal Gone Bad, or ...?
