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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
 Posted - 03/21/2004 : 11:50:50 AM
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I just got back from Clarksburg where I got to see two of C2s. I gotta tell you folks, in my book they are unacceptable.
I just can't imagine all that plastic holding up to the demands of being in a school bus. PLASTIC WINDOWS? Give me a break. Exposed wiring next to left front crash barrier--never a good idea.
And I personally do not like column-shift buses...it's weird.
I'm sure there are lots of folk who will disagree with me, and that's fine. I just do not want a C2 in my fleet.
Like the song says, "Some things just glitter and shine" |
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BlueBirdDriver
Advanced Member
USA
216 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2004 : 7:03:42 PM
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I also went down to Clarksburg to see one of the C2's today. I have to say thanks to ThomasBuiltB24U for letting me get inside and take some pics.
I have to say it's a sharp looking bus from the outside. I'm not so sure about the inside though. I have to agree with Thomasbus24 about the column shift buses, I don't like them either.
The view from the driver's seat is excellent. I have to give Thomas credit there.
I have some pics of the bus I will see about posting for those interested. |
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member
USA
1079 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2004 : 7:26:00 PM
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Jason,
I would love to see the pics of the C2 so I hope you are able to post them  .
Thomasbus24, that's the first I have heard about the plastic windows. What windows are those?
Was this one of the C2's at the NAPT trade show in November?
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Ted
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Thomasfan89
Top Member
USA
1155 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2004 : 7:32:02 PM
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I'd love to see picture of these buses! Especially of they are of Ohio spec! Thanks in advance!
Greg Hovan |
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2004 : 7:42:00 PM
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| I'm interested to know, if you guys hate that column shifter so much, what do you all think of the electronic push button shifters? And will this be available on the c2? |
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredg21/sets/ |
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92FrdCarp#11
Top Member
USA
1455 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 03:55:13 AM
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| I would like to see the pics also Jason. |
Johnny
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BlueBirdDriver
Advanced Member
USA
216 Posts |
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Jim
Top Member
USA
581 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 09:00:34 AM
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| Nice pics! Finally, a few up close and personal pictures of the real thing. Not bad looking to see without the black skirting. I've gotten past my dislike for the front of the bus, but there's still something about the back of it I don't like. And like Jared, I was also wondering if the push button shifter was available for this bus. |
Jim |
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C24U
Advanced Member
United States
220 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 09:03:28 AM
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| I think the plastic windows Patrick referred to are the injection molded ABS plastic frames. They are automotive grade ABS, and will hold up very well compared to the current design which leaves a lot to be desired. The C2 has a push test of 1175 lbs. of pressure, while the FS-65 handles a force of 400 lbs. The frames are basically free-floating in their location between the interior and exterior header channels to prevent binding of the windows, which is why they open so easily. It improves the fit and finish of the windows also. And no these buses aren't built to Ohio specs unfortunately Greg. |
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BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 09:51:20 AM
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| Yuck! |
Your Child's Safety is Our Business |
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
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BlueBirdDriver
Advanced Member
USA
216 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 10:33:51 AM
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Yes, sorry geocities does that if too many people are viewing. Try back in about an hour.
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 1:07:05 PM
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thanks so much for those pics. Its always much easier to examine design when its not on display and in an actual setting. The bus looks nice though. I can see how people would have a problem with the back end. It resembles buses used in other industries, specifically with fiberglass front and rear caps.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredg21/sets/ |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 1:52:56 PM
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Thanks for clarifying the window issue Jay. I'll agree that they did open and close much, much better than the current model which have been a real problem as you mentioned. Perhaps in the long run they will be best.
I do like the view from the driver seat, they have made some huge progress there. I liked that when I adjust the seat to my liking (high off the floor) I am no longer looking at the bottom edge of my rearview mirror as I do in the FS65.
I like the shifter being closer to me, but still don't care for column shift. Push-Buttons are fine by me (we only have one bus with that setup currently).
Emergency equipment location was perfect on that one...the floor forward of the door. I want to be able to get at that stuff FAST if I need it, no fooling around.
So much interior plastic could be a good thing in a roll-over I guess. After all, it will flex better than metal if you get tossed into it.
Lack of all those screws and rivits on the exterior will indeed reduce water leakage, but I want to know; as a guy who has a very limited amount of space and tools for body work, will I still be able to get our my air chisle, air shears and rivit gun and replace a damaged panel myself, and it still meet FMVSS? Will the supplies be readily available to me?
Changing warning light bulbs from the inside would be a blessing. I peeked at the front lights, seems kinda akward to get to, but still easier than fighting with rusted out Weldon 1020's!
I plan to set up a time when I can come and really give the C2 a go-over. Over, under and on top of! Gotta see everything to be totally fair. |
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GMCBlueBird83
Top Member
USA
1478 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 2:21:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BlueBirdDriver
Here is a link to the pics I took of the C2.
http://www.geocities.com/busboyjason/ThomasC2.html
It is geocities, so if the link doesn't work try back in a while.
Jason,
I want to thank you for posting those. The finished product really does look nicer than the pre-production version shown in November. I really love the chrome grille and the lack of the black skirting towards the bottom. Seeing these pics make me think that the C2 has a chance.
But like some others, I'm not crazy about the rear. The square taillights just don't do it for me for some reason. The bottom window on the emergency door also seems to be odd looking. I did a photoshop awhile back of a C2 with traditional tailights and no lower window if anyone would like to see. |
Edited by - GMCBlueBird83 on 03/22/2004 2:22:49 PM |
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92FrdCarp#11
Top Member
USA
1455 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 2:47:49 PM
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| The link isn't working for me. |
Johnny
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BlueBirdDriver
Advanced Member
USA
216 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 2:55:42 PM
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I've uploaded the C2 pics to my Yahoo Photos. I hope this works better for you guys. Sorry about the geocities link. You can also see the pics of my new Blue Bird.
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/schoolbusguy26 |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 4:15:17 PM
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| Wow, I personally like this bus and love the many new features that come along with it. As for the use of plastic as long as it isn't tupperware and is tested to hold up to very tough standards I'll go for it. |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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AmTran 241
Advanced Member
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 4:44:50 PM
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| I just can't get over how that bus looks like a Vista does anyone else see that? Also will Thomas offer the normal round ambers and reds? The back of the bus which I always thought was ugly is finally starting to grow on me! I am still an IC person though |
745 - 2005 IC RE |
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member
USA
1079 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 5:35:41 PM
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Thanks for sharing those pics Jason!
Your new '05 BB AA FE looks terrific too! |
Ted
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Thomasfan89
Top Member
USA
1155 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 6:15:33 PM
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I'll take 3 boxes! My God, now that I have seen a non show C2, L love it even more! Im my eyes the plastic is a good thing. I would guess it is easier to open. I really love that bus and all its Chrome accents! Wins me over! That AA FE of your's Jason is also one damn nice bus! Enjoy the new bus!
Greg Hovan |
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Sherm
Top Member
USA
621 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 06:20:39 AM
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| Do we really have to view the right side mirrors through the door glass or is it just the angle of the picture? Hopefully this is not normal. |
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92FrdCarp#11
Top Member
USA
1455 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 07:15:16 AM
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| On the C2, can you spec a manual door on it? |
Johnny
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BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 07:26:04 AM
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After looking at Jason's pictures, I have a question.
Looking at the picture of the bus from the right side, is the access panel just under the drivers window that low to the ground? Or will they not have an access panel?
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Your Child's Safety is Our Business |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 07:26:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sherm
Do we really have to view the right side mirrors through the door glass or is it just the angle of the picture? Hopefully this is not normal.
I was wondering about that also when I looked at that picture. |
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BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 07:28:00 AM
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Johnny,
From what I heard at the NAPT trade show, you can no longer get a manul door on the C2. |
Your Child's Safety is Our Business |
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BlueBirdDriver
Advanced Member
USA
216 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 08:05:12 AM
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| When I was sitting in the drivers seat, I could not see the right side mirrors at all without leaning back. I'm not sure if they were just way out of adjustment or what was up. Another thing I could not find on it was an emergency release for the service door. I'm not sure if it was electric or air door. I came in from the emergency door in the back. |
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 08:15:18 AM
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I'm really a big fan of the C2 now! Man, Thomas really beat IC and Blue Bird big time. The thought of the bus was yuck at first, now it wow!
The question is can you spce the C2 without the still window in the back?
The only changes needed on this C2 is the side mirrors, and the crossing view mirrors. Will those mirrors be stander on the C2 or can the fleet spce the type of mirror they want to use? I think Thomas need to look back at the mirrors and redo them, try make the side mirrors more like the Saf-T-Liner mirrors. And use the new style bus boy mirrors that or stander on today Thomas FS65
quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24
Thanks for clarifying the window issue Jay. I'll agree that they did open and close much, much better than the current model which have been a real problem as you mentioned. Perhaps in the long run they will be best.
I was wondering the samething about the windows, the only question is how will the emergecny windows be set up. Seem like to me the windows is behide a windows frams (looking from the picture)
quote:
I do like the view from the driver seat, they have made some huge progress there. I liked that when I adjust the seat to my liking (high off the floor) I am no longer looking at the bottom edge of my rearview mirror as I do in the FS65.
I must say (looking from the picture) it seem like if you also driving a transit bus with a chassis! They really did a good job in that area.
quote:
I like the shifter being closer to me, but still don't care for column shift. Push-Buttons are fine by me (we only have one bus with that setup currently).
I think the C2 would look better if it did have the Push-Buttons to fit the look on this bus. The column shift is also on my dislike list.
quote:
Emergency equipment location was perfect on that one...the floor forward of the door. I want to be able to get at that stuff FAST if I need it, no fooling around.
Where by on the floor is the Emergency equipment location at? So if the emergency equipment is location on the floor, what do they have in the overhead? Also do you picture of the emergency equipment?
That my two cents worth!
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~Georgia Drivers Together We Fly High~ |
Edited by - Thomas00 on 03/23/2004 08:16:27 AM |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 11:05:04 AM
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Well, darn, the C2 is supposed to be here tomorrow at Kerlin Bus Sales, but I just got handed a trip over to Illinois. Maybe I'll see it the next time it's around.
Thanks for posting the pictures, Jason. The Blue Bird's looking good. |
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Isellbuses
Top Member
Canada
828 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 12:04:26 PM
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I am curious why people do not like a colum ****fters?
Does anyone know if the C2 has been delivered to a customer yet? How many are on order? Just curious. We have not seen any our way yet. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 2:37:24 PM
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There were two of these buses at Davis, I think Jason photgraphed the one that didn't have the emergency equipment on the floor near the door. I couldn't get the overhead compartment to open on that one, so I don't know if the stuff was in there or not.
I too thought it was strange that there was no emergency release for the power door (which was electric). The other bus had a release, but it also had some funky control set-up that resemebed the hold-open device Thomas uses for the emergency doors, only instead of a two-section telescoping arm it was at least three sections. Not sure if it was air or electric. Both buses had different doors altogether for some reason |
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 3:10:40 PM
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| Does anyone know that Thomas use emergency exits windows or how will it be setup? Also can the bus be spec with air door? |
~Georgia Drivers Together We Fly High~ |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 3:25:50 PM
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Yes I'm sure the bus can be speced with an air door. As for the mirrors I'm sure the "safety cross" crossview mirrors will be available (those are the ones currently used on the fs-65 and look like the bus boys). I would imagine that the other mirror systems will also be available to spec, the double nickles and rosco euro style. This mirrors on this bus appear to have a good coverage area but they look like they belong on a delivery truck not a school bus. My other concern was their location, from the picture it looked as if you viewed them out of the service door. People from Thomas were on these forums before if they are still watching these they should chime in with a few answers.
As for the manual door I would imagine it is no longer available that is why the power door is now standard. |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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C24U
Advanced Member
United States
220 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 7:04:23 PM
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| Just a few more things. I think the plastic windows may have also been a reference to the area between the windows where the roof bows run. There is a plastic casing over a steel frame, which may give a false impression as a plastic window frame. The exposed wiring was simply to show the cleanliness of the wiring. There was also a removeable panel on the left side of the switch cabinet to see the switch bank and module. The MD3060 will have a pushbutton shift as it does today. The right side mirrors aren't viewed through the door, but through the Safe-T-Vue Window. I adjusted them to drive it to Columbus, and had NO problem seeing out of them. Most who looked at them at the show liked them also. Standard door will be an electric door with air offered optional. Under the driver's window is the battery box. No electrical panel there, and none needed anymore. You'd be surprised how the wiring has been cleaned up dramatically. No C2's have been delivered to any customers. In fact, you could count all of the C2's on one hand out there today. All prototypes hand built. This week though, they are going to start on some "pre-series" units for dealer demos that will actually go through the factory processes. Not hand assembled. As for the doors, the bus Jason took pictures of actually had the HDX full pane door fabricated into it. The other had a door more like the C2 will have. The actual door will curve like the exterior of the C2 and give about a 31-32" clear opening. And it will use a gliding device like on the current emergency door to open. Any more questions? I'll try to answer what's within my realm. And as an aside, everyone seemed to have positive things to say in Ohio. |
Edited by - C24U on 03/23/2004 7:07:32 PM |
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GMCBlueBird83
Top Member
USA
1478 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 7:35:18 PM
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ThomasBuilt B24U,
What can you tell us about New York spec C2's? There are a couple of contractors I'm familiar with in Rockland County, NY, namely Haverstraw Transit and Peter Brega, that are strictly Thomas, at least for the Type C and D buses. Will the lit destination signs be similar to what we've seen on the HDX? What about warning light visors, will they also be available? And will the all yellow "blackout" paint scheme be an option?
Also, the black lower skirting in the initial pics on the c2thefuture site were missing in Jason's pics. Will this be standard or an option? I like the C2 much better without the skirting so I'm hoping either its an option or not available and was just there on the prototype to get a reaction.
Back in Novemeber when I first saw this bus I was very mixed about it. Now that better pictures have surfaced I gotta say, I really like it! I can't wait to see one in person |
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C24U
Advanced Member
United States
220 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 8:26:38 PM
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| I'm not the one to ask about the NY stuff. I can say that the black skirts and extended skirts will be optional. The rest is beyond me. |
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The C2 has arrived...
