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 Ford B-700 Hyd E- Brake Question
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1983ChevroletWayne
Senior Member

Canada
165 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2013 :  12:05:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey guys,

I've noticed in a lot of videos on Youtube of the ford buses from the 80's and early 90's that have a flip lever on the dash that controls the locking of the brakes.

Is this a "Line-Lock" or is it something else?

If these are a "line-lock" how are they legal? Do they still have a park brake cable hiding somewhere out of view?



Note: Located at the bottom right corner of the dash


The reason I ask is that I have an 89' S-Series International (work truck) with juice brakes, and I have a park brake cable that keeps sticking and freezing up. I would be interested in setting something like this up. My whole cable system has worn out, and the pads that grab the drum of the drive shaft have worn down to nothing. We have sprayed down the cable good with fluid film, and even put a spring on it to help pull it back! It works (the spring) somewhat, but the pads make a "whirling" noise under the truck as it goes down the road because they are still rubbing.

I'm sure some of the old International buses did this exact same thing to some of you out there!

Edited by - 1983ChevroletWayne on 03/23/2013 3:01:53 PM

Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3343 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2013 :  3:02:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Fords you are seeing have the God-forsaken Lucas-Girling brake systems.

They were a traditional hydraulic system (front disk, rear drum) with a brake chamber on the rear that uses mechanical spring force to apply the rear brakes for parking. Hydraulic pressure (ATF used as fluid) was used to release the parking brakes.

They were miserable pieces of sh** and nobody should ever have to experience them.

International uses the same principal on hyrdo buses now, and I hear its just as great...plus you have the added bonus of a computer being involved.
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1983ChevroletWayne
Senior Member

Canada
165 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2013 :  1:37:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24

The Fords you are seeing have the God-forsaken Lucas-Girling brake systems.

They were a traditional hydraulic system (front disk, rear drum) with a brake chamber on the rear that uses mechanical spring force to apply the rear brakes for parking. Hydraulic pressure (ATF used as fluid) was used to release the parking brakes.

They were miserable pieces of sh** and nobody should ever have to experience them.

International uses the same principal on hyrdo buses now, and I hear its just as great...plus you have the added bonus of a computer being involved.



Lol...Thanks for the info! I'll stay clear of this idea! :)

Formerly "83ChevroletWayne"



Pic courtesy of: "schoolbusdriver.org"
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sob
Senior Member

USA
64 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2013 :  03:56:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
God forsaken is putting it mildly !!!!!!!!!!!!
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2322 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2013 :  09:26:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sob

God forsaken is putting it mildly !!!!!!!!!!!!



The principal is sound, it just didn't work in the real world. lol

Bryan
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C.HARDY
Advanced Member

354 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2013 :  09:28:16 AM  Show Profile  Click to see C.HARDY's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
man...........hated those

"Hardybusman"
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offroadwolf1
Active Member

33 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2013 :  2:06:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes you have girling brakes on this one. Everyone is right they are a pain to work on. Just did the rears last weekend on an F-700 chassis for one of my personal customers. When they work, they work, when they don't open up a big bank account! This one had worn everything out, ran me 2200 in parts for the rear axle only! If you run into a case you need info or parts Arizona Brake and Clutch in Phoenix Arizona can help you out. They do know their stuff and can get you part numbers for it to. The park brake is a spring loaded chamber, flipping the lever applies fluid pressure to release the spring and allow the wheels to roll.
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efkimes
Active Member

31 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2013 :  05:48:13 AM  Show Profile  Send efkimes a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I have worked on a lot of Lucas-Girling brakes. They are hard to work on I agree but I have never seen one with a fliper lever. All that I have ever worked on have a yellow push/pull knob. Simliar to air brakes. Mico brakes have an elecric solenoid that uses a fliper lever. Mico is a good system and can be added to any hydraulic brake system. I have installed many of those to and they have all worked well. You may have that system. But either way you can add the mico brake lock to any hyd. system and use that instead of the drum brake.
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Fastback
Top Member

990 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2013 :  06:05:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When we got our 1984 B700 it had the push pull knob for the Lucas Girling park brakes, Ford had a recall and replaced it with the toggle lever. Our 1988 and 1991 B700s came with the toggle lever.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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eddo
Senior Member

USA
89 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2013 :  11:55:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
for what it's worth, (and I should clarify this with an "In my experience",) the entire e-brake system can be replace on a 89 S-Series for a couple hundred bucks. They are super simple. the most expensive part is the brake drum, which I have only ever had to replace one, and that was when a tow truck driver cross threaded a driveline bolt.

Parts are still very available- as everything from my 1986 to my 2002 runs the exact same set up. The only differences are e-brake cable length.
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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2013 :  2:43:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by efkimes

I have worked on a lot of Lucas-Girling brakes. They are hard to work on I agree but I have never seen one with a fliper lever. All that I have ever worked on have a yellow push/pull knob. Simliar to air brakes. Mico brakes have an elecric solenoid that uses a fliper lever. Mico is a good system and can be added to any hydraulic brake system. I have installed many of those to and they have all worked well. You may have that system. But either way you can add the mico brake lock to any hyd. system and use that instead of the drum brake.


In most cases, the F series used the push-pull, while the B series used the flip thing.

Robert B.

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Trailboss
Senior Member

United States
149 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2013 :  04:44:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is not that Mico a modification to the brake system. You have to tap into the brake system to install it. Is that not a point of out of service or rejection on the bus inspection. Just wandering.
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efkimes
Active Member

31 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2013 :  05:14:21 AM  Show Profile  Send efkimes a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
The mico system does go inline on the brake system. It was never a problem on trucks but I am not sure about school buses. Our state I believe would allow it but each state is different. My experience was mostley with trucks and heavy equipment but in 2004 I switched to school buses. So the flipper lever is new to me....for the b sries. To adjust Lucas brakes OTC makes an adjuster. number 5072...that is the best tool I have ever bought..ha, hated adjusting them.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2322 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2013 :  05:14:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by efkimes

I have worked on a lot of Lucas-Girling brakes. They are hard to work on I agree but I have never seen one with a fliper lever. All that I have ever worked on have a yellow push/pull knob. Simliar to air brakes. Mico brakes have an elecric solenoid that uses a fliper lever. Mico is a good system and can be added to any hydraulic brake system. I have installed many of those to and they have all worked well. You may have that system. But either way you can add the mico brake lock to any hyd. system and use that instead of the drum brake.



I think this would be against the law for school buses in most locations. Please check first before you try this.

Bryan
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efkimes
Active Member

31 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2013 :  07:40:23 AM  Show Profile  Send efkimes a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Thats probably true that it would not be okay on a school bus. But I think the one he asked about was an IH work truck. I have installed many of them on S series trucks and other brands as well. It is a nice way to eliminate the drum brake on the back of the trans if a person doesnt want to keep it. I am not certain about other states but in Colorado the DOT has not had any issue with them installed in a truck. But you could always check with your local offices.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2322 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2013 :  08:00:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by efkimes

But you could always check with your local offices.



LOL!! In Illinois no one knows anything at a state office. It really gets to be comical at times. The state is very corrupt. I would venture to say it's getting close to Mexico in some offices (not all). All I do is try not to do anything out of the ordinary. I once put little stickers on the buses so the real young kids could use them for bus ID. State inspector said no. I have seen them on neighboring district buses but he said that wasn't in his area so that didn't concern him. That was the last inspector I had, the one I have now is better.

Bryan
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