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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
 Posted - 01/07/2011 : 6:09:31 PM
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DO THE OFFICIALS IN THIS STORY MAKE SENSE TO ANYONE HERE?
Schools try to attract more bus contract bidders
By Scott O’Connel
Jan 07, 2011
The Framingham Tab
GateHouse News Service
According to school district officials, one is indeed a lonely number.
That’s how many vendors bid on the department’s bus contract during the past few bidding periods, eliminating any chance for the district to find any cost savings through market competition.
As the district bears down for another difficult budget season this year, officials are pulling out all the stops to attract more bids, and possibly find a better deal than the five-year contract they have with their current vendor, First Student, which expires in June. ...
Click Here for full story
Stop Violence on the school buses!
Stop bullying and other violence - Complete with excellent video! According to the American Public Health Association, the school bus is the second most common place for bullying to occur (the first is on the playground). This Fast Track slide presentation can help stop bullying on the school buses. Includes class handouts. Free to use in self-study, for class training, and for presentation to the school board. Click Here for Link (See Post # 14) |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 6:28:12 PM
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One is the only number when districts wipeout the competition through low-balling. This story seems to me more a propaganda release than reality. The competition has been wiped out by years of low-ball bidding that districts attached to like investment parasites. Now that the competition is gone some of these districts are whining about no competitive bids? What idiot would give up their investments to such districts? There are situations where contractors can produce the most savings, but all too often had plenty of these districts ran their own operations properly in the first place they would likely be where our district is. Tight budget but decent pay and benefits and still well under the cost of bidding out to a contractor. The wrong management style could change that overnight, but so far so good in our community.
Take a look at what sub-contracting (Regial Airlines) has done to the airline industry. The pilots comments may astonish you: Click Here for full story
Stop Violence on the school buses!
Stop bullying and other violence - Complete with excellent video! According to the American Public Health Association, the school bus is the second most common place for bullying to occur (the first is on the playground). This Fast Track slide presentation can help stop bullying on the school buses. Includes class handouts. Free to use in self-study, for class training, and for presentation to the school board. Click Here for Link (See Post # 14) |
Edited by - JK on 01/07/2011 8:30:08 PM |
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SteveCof00
Senior Member
USA
128 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 10:08:40 PM
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(From the Framingham Tab...the source used for this thread)quote:
The problem with only having one bid is that the district has no way to know if it’s being overcharged. The department currently pays about $186 per bus per day to First Student and hires its own drivers.
Right now, this is probably a situation a school district would want to be in only if they were considering the choice to sub-contract busing....
Although not a monopoly by definition, the marketplace with school bus contractors is hardly surprising. With a company with a market share and name recognition such as First Student, it is easy for them to dominate. Although others have the capability to fulfill a busing contract for school district, they don't have the capability to secure bids, whether on price or on the ability to get on the school district's radar, so to speak.
After all, try naming 5 school bus contractors BESIDES First Student and its Laidlaw predecessor!  |
http://schoolbusweb.proboards.com/ |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 04:03:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SteveCof00
After all, try naming 5 school bus contractors BESIDES First Student and its Laidlaw predecessor!
Durham and STA nationally, and I can think of almost a dozen small companies here in Southern New England.
The problem is, Durham and STA want to be FS, and the small guys have to cheapen everything to compete. It's not the same industry it used to be, and the ones that get screwed are the drivers, the schools, and the kids.
It's been said that First Student is the Wal-Mart of the bus industry. Frankly, that's an insult to Wal-Mart. At least they provide their customers with decent products and service, and their business model the underpaid, broken-spirit employees inside a building instead of placing them behind the wheel of 15 ton buses, responsible for dozens of lives.
What's going to happen to our industry when First Student finally falls? |
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member
533 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 09:58:25 AM
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| ^ Also, what is it going to take for First Student to fall? Anti-monopoly laws? Lawsuits? A sudden wake-up call to the districts to take their business elsewhere? |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 10:24:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 08 Thomas EF
^ Also, what is it going to take for First Student to fall? Anti-monopoly laws? Lawsuits? A sudden wake-up call to the districts to take their business elsewhere?
From what I've seen of their bidding practices and bureaucratic waste, I don't think their business model is sustainable.
There are also a lot of school districts that aren't getting the service they're paying for, and eventually they may figure that out. |
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Former School Bus M8
Senior Member
143 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 2:27:55 PM
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In Massachusetts the school district must go with the low bidder by law, which is terrible. That means although the second lowest bidder may give you more bang for your buck, you can not choose them by law.
The problem in Mass and in fact in other New England states is that there is no competition anymore and a smaller contractor could easily be put out of business for stepping on FS toes. Say you have a contractor who has one or two districts and decides to bid on a third district that belongs to FS. FS could easily turn around low bid the smaller guy's 3 ditricts the next time around, thus putting the smaller guy out of business. I can't tell you how many times I've read in the paper that a district was hoping or expecting for competition regarding the transportation bid this time around but it only turns out to be FS. I've been reading it for years and there is nothing that the district can do about it. I cant tell you how many times i've heard a small even a larger contractor say they wont bid on a contract because they dont want to step on FS toes. |
School Bus M8 |
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member
533 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 4:11:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bus724
From what I've seen of their bidding practices and bureaucratic waste, I don't think their business model is sustainable.
What's FS's version of bureaucratic waste? |
Edited by - 08 Thomas EF on 01/09/2011 4:13:05 PM |
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busman654
New Member
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 7:59:08 PM
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Well I love to read about all the smart people who know why no one else bid on this contract. My opinion is because states like Mass have laws that basically discourage and prohibit certain contractors from bidding. Having three year contracts when the cost of equipment and providing good operations is rising is just foolish. We look to bid in states and areas where customers want good service, good equipment and long term partnerships to work through the issues we all face today. Longer term agreements with good specifications and tough requirements are whats needed. The second issue here is it looks like the district really only wants the cheapest price they can get, not the best value. Having a "reverse auction" is about the dumbest thing a district could do if it is not satisfied with their service provider and is trying to attarct new competition.
For the person who replied that STA wants to be like FS you could not be further from the truth. We are very different than both FS and NEX ie (Durham and Stock). I would encourage you to visit our web site www.ridesta.com and see who we are and what we do to make a difference in our communities.
And lastly, for my many friends who work for school district operations commenting here and represent 66% of the industry, I offer the thought to learn to be open to working with contractors and to find ways to improve service and costs or we may all end up like the buggy whip business. We need to work together and find solutions and get the best ideas on the table. Taking the road of higher standards and creating good value vs lowering standards to get the cheapest price will be the ruin of many of these decision makers. Also being open to change and recognizing that contractors can provide much needed capital today that districts can't due to budget cuts. I have talked to several district run administrators and State officals who would rather end transportation than work with a contractor for a better solution. Thats really crazy. Where's the saftey concern in that kind of response? What's the environmental impact of all those extra vehicles on the road? Our Education Stimulus Program is one such effort to save hundreds of millions of dollars by partnering with us in this effort to save our school budgets from total devistation. This year we are hearing from more districts than ever before.
Forums like this are good, but like politics today I hope we all try to learn more and to be open to compromise for the better good.
Denis Gallagher, CEO Student Transportation, Inc |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 02:28:08 AM
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| My apologies. I didn't mean that other companies want to be an exact copy of FS, I was referring more to the market share and making a statement about what's necessary to compete. I was also making an unfair generalization based on the opinions of a few drivers. I certainly hope your company continues to strive for good service and high value, and can continue to compete with FS's business model of growing by being the cheapest and wiping out the competition. I'm ashamed to say I drive for First Student, and everyone suffers from their aggressive cost-cutting. |
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 06:15:22 AM
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| Thanks for posting, Mr. Gallagher! It's nice to have higher ups in the industry partcipate from time to time, esspecially when they are as frank as you just were. |
Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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Former School Bus M8
Senior Member
143 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 08:34:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by busman654
Well I love to read about all the smart people who know why no one else bid on this contract. My opinion is because states like Mass have laws that basically discourage and prohibit certain contractors from bidding. Having three year contracts when the cost of equipment and providing good operations is rising is just foolish. We look to bid in states and areas where customers want good service, good equipment and long term partnerships to work through the issues we all face today. Longer term agreements with good specifications and tough requirements are whats needed. The second issue here is it looks like the district really only wants the cheapest price they can get, not the best value. Having a "reverse auction" is about the dumbest thing a district could do if it is not satisfied with their service provider and is trying to attarct new competition.
For the person who replied that STA wants to be like FS you could not be further from the truth. We are very different than both FS and NEX ie (Durham and Stock). I would encourage you to visit our web site www.ridesta.com and see who we are and what we do to make a difference in our communities.
And lastly, for my many friends who work for school district operations commenting here and represent 66% of the industry, I offer the thought to learn to be open to working with contractors and to find ways to improve service and costs or we may all end up like the buggy whip business. We need to work together and find solutions and get the best ideas on the table. Taking the road of higher standards and creating good value vs lowering standards to get the cheapest price will be the ruin of many of these decision makers. Also being open to change and recognizing that contractors can provide much needed capital today that districts can't due to budget cuts. I have talked to several district run administrators and State officals who would rather end transportation than work with a contractor for a better solution. Thats really crazy. Where's the saftey concern in that kind of response? What's the environmental impact of all those extra vehicles on the road? Our Education Stimulus Program is one such effort to save hundreds of millions of dollars by partnering with us in this effort to save our school budgets from total devistation. This year we are hearing from more districts than ever before.
Forums like this are good, but like politics today I hope we all try to learn more and to be open to compromise for the better good.
Denis Gallagher, CEO Student Transportation, Inc
In Mass and from what I read in the papers it seems that all most districts care about is cheapest price and they in fact have to go, by law with the cheapest price. I agree with much of what you say but I am very discouraged and not optomistic to see change in the near future in Ma. I once heard a sb member and i quote say "as long as they pass inspection." Most people fight for a cause in what they know but I am accepting the fact that the all mighty dollar is what counts in school transportation, at least in Ma. That may change if god forbid a tragedy occurs, it may not. One crucial thing that I take as gospel for driver's is "cover your a**" because when something happens and it hits the fan they're gonna go after the driver.
I have to say though I work one of the few districts that seem to make safety paramount. They seem to be few and far between.
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School Bus M8 |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 10:22:01 PM
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Would myself think it unwise of any contractor to attempt an FS model of doing business. Most would do better to throw their money away on a sports team. I continue to maintain that the school districts involved made no sense in their appeal for new bidders when they had demonstrated over so many years that low-ball contracts is what they actually want and would too likely repeat that pattern with any new bidders. Seems to be simply politics or perhaps making a lame attempt to force FS in to a lower single bid, in my opinion, not something FS need be much concerned about. Any district could protest low-balling and push for value, but here again value may cost a bit more upfront. How are parasite sorts to choose value over cheap? Such reasoning seems evident is not within their mindset. (jk)
Stop Violence on the school buses!
Stop bullying and other violence - Complete with excellent video! According to the American Public Health Association, the school bus is the second most common place for bullying to occur (the first is on the playground). This Fast Track slide presentation can help stop bullying on the school buses. Includes class handouts. Free to use in self-study, for class training, and for presentation to the school board. Click Here for Link (See Post # 14) |
Edited by - JK on 01/13/2011 10:33:03 PM |
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WallyG
Advanced Member
United States
255 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 05:12:11 AM
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| Wal-Mart? That is a well run company. More like the dollar store with a lot of wannabe executives micro managing the store. |
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mcgoo
Active Member
Canada
28 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 10:54:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JK
One is the only number when districts wipeout the competition through low-balling. This story seems to me more a propaganda release than reality. The competition has been wiped out by years of low-ball bidding that districts attached to like investment parasites. Now that the competition is gone some of these districts are whining about no competitive bids? What idiot would give up their investments to such districts? There are situations where contractors can produce the most savings, but all too often had plenty of these districts ran their own operations properly in the first place they would likely be where our district is. Tight budget but decent pay and benefits and still well under the cost of bidding out to a contractor. The wrong management style could change that overnight, but so far so good in our community.
Take a look at what sub-contracting (Regial Airlines) has done to the airline industry. The pilots comments may astonish you: Click Here for full story
Stop Violence on the school buses!
Stop bullying and other violence - Complete with excellent video! According to the American Public Health Association, the school bus is the second most common place for bullying to occur (the first is on the playground). This Fast Track slide presentation can help stop bullying on the school buses. Includes class handouts. Free to use in self-study, for class training, and for presentation to the school board. Click Here for Link (See Post # 14)
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mcgoo
Active Member
Canada
28 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 10:58:14 AM
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| If the school district thinks they are getting stiffed by no competition why don't they start their own transportation bus line and hire drivers. This way here they can save thousands of dollars by doing it themselves. |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 09:06:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mcgoo
If the school district thinks they are getting stiffed by no competition why don't they start their own transportation bus line and hire drivers. This way here they can save thousands of dollars by doing it themselves.
Maybe, depends. Have they replaced those skilless board members, administrators and managers that made contracting so attractive in the first place? (jk) |
Edited by - JK on 01/22/2011 09:07:17 AM |
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mcgoo
Active Member
Canada
28 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 11:26:23 AM
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| Those that can do, those that can't go into positions like school administrators and politicians. |
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Former School Bus M8
Senior Member
143 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 11:21:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mcgoo
If the school district thinks they are getting stiffed by no competition why don't they start their own transportation bus line and hire drivers. This way here they can save thousands of dollars by doing it themselves.
In a way they are doing it themselves. Like my district they hire thier own drivers but lease the buses. My district turns in the buses every three years and luckily we get three bids; one from a BB dealer, one from a Thomas and one from an IC dealer.
Bottom line is this industry needs an enema. This industry has nothing to do with children anymore! |
School Bus M8 |
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School districts whine about only one bid
