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boomski
Active Member
United States
10 Posts |
 Posted - 05/22/2009 : 9:15:39 PM
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Hello Folks I've been a regular lurker here for a while and have an issue that has been giving me grief for a couple of days now so I thought I would throw it out here and see if I could get some help.
I have a 2007 C2 with an air operated stop arm and though the arm, crossing gate, and 8 ways all function correctly the lights on the stop arm will not light.
I know the problem is no voltage to circuit 489a I also know all the body wiring from connector p152 to the bulbs is good. I've checked f.A.com to trace the chassis circuit 489a and I see that it originates at the chassis module the schematics I've looked at say that it powers a stop arm relay but I cannot find a relay labeled for the stop arm either on the web site or by looking on the bus. Has anybody encountered this issue yet or know about this relay? Any help would be appreciated. |
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raytobe
Advanced Member
USA
293 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 5:09:43 PM
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| Can't help you on this as I haven't run into any problems with the lights yet but can you tell me what f.A.com is? |
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boomski
Active Member
United States
10 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 5:52:03 PM
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I was abbreviating Freightliner access but I guess it should have been A.F for access freightliner instead, my bad I was tired when I wrote that post.
I work for a large district in Virginia and we have many C2s. this is also the first time I've seen this problem. We normally see the wires sheared off inside the stop arm at the hinge point, no such luck on this one.
These types of problems have an up side however, after your done educating yourself on exactly how the effected system works you come out of the repair with some priceless experience and an intimate knowledge of a new system. In this case the switching board takes the place of the conventional Weldon however the stop arm lights are not tied into that unit they are attached directly to the chassis module which I'm assuming monitors the door status and switches the lights via a relay as per the chassis module pin circuit description I found on access freightliner. Remember when the stop arm lights were just simply piggy backed off the red warning light circuits, those were the days. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 6:21:13 PM
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| Remember when these buses didn't exist? THOSE were the days! |
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raytobe
Advanced Member
USA
293 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 10:02:34 AM
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| The way the new busses in VA are required to automatically activate the traffic lights/stop/sweep arms every time the entrance door is opened is a pain as you have to go back and reset the child check every time.. |
Edited by - raytobe on 05/26/2009 1:51:30 PM |
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 04:00:48 AM
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Take my advice with a grain of salt, since I have never worked on a C2, but it was my impression that the stop arms on C2s had their own internal flasher. Since the bus is multiplexed, the sign would only be receiving a signal to deploy, and so that +12V would also power a flasher within the stop arm base. The flashing of the lights would not be coming from any bus body or chassis control module. The internal flasher has been an option with Transpec and Specialty stop arms for quite some time.
So, if your stop arm is unfolding, then your problem with the lights may be internal to the stop arm.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. |
Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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boomski
Active Member
United States
10 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 07:07:07 AM
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You are correct in that the flashing mechanism is internal to the stop sign however, I believe you'r describing an electric arm and our stop arms are air operated (sorry I left out that bit of info) so it being deployed doesn't indicate the presence of voltage to the light circuits.
As I stated before we normally do see the wires break inside the stop arm. however that is not the case in this situation. I can test and confirm voltage and ground on circuits 490 and GNDC respectively however I get no voltage on circuit 489 I can then trace this circuit all the way back through the p152 chassis to body connector and then to the chassis module I can "hot wire" this circuit and get the lights to work.
After finding a wiring diagram I do not believe that there is a relay in line anywhere but rather that the chassis module switches this output according to an input, I'm assuming from the door switch or door circuits. |
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boomski
Active Member
United States
10 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 08:36:57 AM
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Found the problem this AM
There is a connector in the chassis harness that is secured to the top of the DS inner fender behind the bulkhead module that circuit 489 ran through. one of the terminals in this conector had pulled back and was no longer making contact.
Reminds me of how the basics are overlooked after doing this for a while. Almost all troubleshooting starts (or should) with check fuses, check all wiring and conectors. |
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tigger2
Advanced Member
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 03:17:53 AM
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| On the newer C-2 units the stop arm relay is behind the long spring cover in back of the diaphram (specialty units)their way of cutting wire usage? There were so many problems with the transpec air arm that when specialty bought transpec it thankfully died. |
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skydiverbill
Senior Member
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 06:59:35 AM
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| We have started to put a piece of metal to block the stop arm from going over 90 degrees and has stoped most of the wire shearing on the c2's. I have heard they no longer make the stop arm and now you have to replace complete stop arms in sets. Anyone hear that? If you want a picture of the "stop arm block" I can post. |
gravity powered fun from 13,000 feet= skydiving |
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bsaund09
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 08:34:16 AM
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| Thomas should consider bringing back the FS 65 that was an awesome bus very few problems. Most folks with the C2s seem to have nothing but trouble. |
keep those buses rolling
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/schoolbushistory |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 09:13:54 AM
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| The newer C2s have been just as reliable as the FS-65s, it is the older ones that were problematic. |
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JC Theriault
Top Member
Canada
1326 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 2:47:19 PM
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I've driven a few C2's over the last year and really wish a manual door control was available. I can't recall a time when I put a bus out of service because of a manual door malfunction, yet last winter it was a frequent issue on the C2 & IC power-operated door systems. Doesn't have to be anything fancy, even a steel-tubing frame like you see bolted onto a cutaway bus.
JC |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 4:16:07 PM
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| Somebody new on here swore they were getting a manual door C2 a few months back. Funny how we never heard anything more from that person. |
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bcressey
Senior Member
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 5:31:38 PM
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| don't give up hope yet, it is not far off. |
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skydiverbill
Senior Member
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 10:23:32 AM
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"Reminds me of how the basics are overlooked after doing this for a while. Almost all troubleshooting starts (or should) with check fuses, check all wiring and conectors. "
and even more so on a C2. Our c2's are even worse than the '93 fords we had.
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gravity powered fun from 13,000 feet= skydiving |
Edited by - skydiverbill on 07/01/2009 10:24:31 AM |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 12:46:18 PM
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| Better buy a Blue Bird!! |
Bryan |
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thomasguy
Active Member
Canada
21 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2009 : 11:15:59 PM
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| We've had a flurry of bad contact & ground issues on our C2s. There's a connector on the driver's side of the transmission that had corroded and the only way we found the problem was by wiggling, tugging on wiring and connectors while the fault was present. The fault was uncanny: The stop sign would come out, one headlight would stay on and the air regulator for the stop sign would cycle back and forth. Also the brakes would not release (which is another issue in itself). |
School Bus Maintenance & Repairs.
http://schoolbusmechanic.blogspot.com |
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yellowbusrider
New Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2009 : 5:22:19 PM
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my school district has c2s with manual doors
they were custom ordered so the dont malfunction
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1983WardFord
Top Member
USA
1395 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2009 : 10:03:31 AM
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| Photos!!! |
Due to the current economic condition, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice. |
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C2 stop sign lights
