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bigboy9600
Active Member
USA
24 Posts |
 Posted - 06/08/2006 : 2:12:51 PM
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| HI I need some input, advice or opinions on wether to get a cat or mercedes engines on C2's. Plesase help the order has to be in by next week. |
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The Thomas Vista
Senior Member
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 2:19:24 PM
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What's the horsepower range you want? Keep in mind Mercedes doesn't offer a 300+ bhp engine in the US (It's availble in Europe only).
Both are good engines, and they do have their strengths and weaknesses. |
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bigboy9600
Active Member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 2:27:09 PM
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| that is exactly what I'm trying to find out their strengths and weaknesses. |
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The Thomas Vista
Senior Member
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 2:39:20 PM
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| Well, I can tell you right now, if you live in a cold weather climate, the Mercedes is the way to go. |
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bigboy9600
Active Member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 4:20:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by The Thomas Vista
Well, I can tell you right now, if you live in a cold weather climate, the Mercedes is the way to go.
someone told me that their buses with mercedes engines don't give enough heat in the winter. |
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CPSBUS67
Senior Member
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 4:28:05 PM
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| cat cat cat but im bias..........nothing like the sound or power of a CAT.........most cats ive seen are glow plug less and living in new york this could be an advantage.........here in missouri we have some pretty cold winters and my cat fired every morning when some of our detroits and cummins would not |
GIVE ME A THOMAS AND NO ONE GETS HURT!!!!!!! |
Edited by - CPSBUS67 on 06/08/2006 4:30:56 PM |
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 4:34:38 PM
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No modern diesel engine will give heat in the winter. In combustion engines, heat is equated to waste, and as the engines become more and more efficient (ie, less and less waste) they are all releasing less heat into the coolant system. On our buses (Cat C7s) the Thomas dealer was installed auxillary fuel-fired heaters into the buses. These heat up the coolant independently of the engine, using a small diesel-fueled "furnace." They can be used when the engine is running, or set on a timer so that the coolant would be warm when the engine is ready to be started.
As for the 300 HP issue, the MBE 900 is available in up to 350 HP, but so far only in EMS, fire, and RV applications. Perhaps this could leak into the school bus industry. Go to Detroit Diesel's website and click on "LEARN MORE" on the space that talks about 2007 EPA regulations. On the window that pops up, there will be a video presentation taht talks about their products and the overview of their plans. In that presentation, it mentions this fact about the MBE. If you want to skip closer to it, click on "The Lineup" at the bottom of the video. There is a lot of other information on that page, too. |
Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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LBDboater
Advanced Member
USA
279 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 7:01:41 PM
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| MERCEDES, MERCEDES, MERCEDES! Our Mercedes are AMAZING. Lots of power, very fuel efficient, quiet, smooth, low maintence. We live in VA, and they are the best engines we've come across in 10 years. All of our FS-65's have them and all of our new C2's have them. They are really good engines in my opinion. No engine coming out now a days is going to put out much heat. Heat is a form of wasted energy in an engine, and these diesels are getting more and more efficient each year. I dont know what kind of price difference between the two, but even if the Mercedes is more expensive you should order them. I think in the school bus market it goes up to 280 hp. You can't get a CAT engine with any more power in the C2. |
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Bassman
Top Member
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2006 : 02:52:05 AM
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| Ditto for me. The Mercedes is the best engine I've seen in a long time. My heat issues were all resolved. Best gas mileage and reliability of any product on the market. If I could have all MBE906's in my fleet, I would trade tomorrow. |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2006 : 08:25:32 AM
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| Mercedes!?! I would stick to US built. If you are gonna go import on a diesel, wait till Isuzu gets thier 7.8 in the GMCV. (rumored) |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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The Thomas Vista
Senior Member
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2006 : 1:54:12 PM
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Why US built? Mercedes, as you should know, is a VERY respected manufacuturer of engines. Personally I'd go with the MBE(O)906's. Yes, Cat, Cummins, and Detroit Diesel make good engines, but so does Mercedes.
Also, think about fuel economy. If someone can give me a chart with the MPG's of the 4 engines, I would love to see it. I have a feeling though that the Mercedes ranks the hightest though.
Dan |
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LBDboater
Advanced Member
USA
279 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2006 : 3:05:39 PM
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| As patriotic as I am, I have no plans on wasting my money on an inferior product in my opinion. I'm not saying that CAT is a bad engine, or inferior to the MB. I do think that the MB is a better engine though, therefore I pay. US manufacturer's are loosing a lot of ground to the foreign companies. I know I'm not helping, but until they clean up there products to the top notch engineering that the foreign companies already have, I'll continue to import. |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2006 : 5:08:18 PM
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| MBE! |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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bluebirdvision
Top Member
USA
1081 Posts |
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CPCSC_TD
Top Member
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2006 : 6:32:27 PM
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Mercedes
Think about it- if you plan to stick with Thomas, next year you will be doing Mercedes or Cummins. Stick with the Mercedes now and save throughout the life span of the bus.
I have Cats but in the same boat.
The Mercedes is a series 50 Detroit Diesel. You will get reliability out of it. They have prooven their reliability and dependability.
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IBTMech
Top Member
USA
973 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2006 : 7:47:27 PM
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Well, I'm the newest newbie here, though I've been lurking for a few weeks. With 35 years experience maintaining a mixed fleet from buses to fire apparatus to snow plows and heavy equipment, I must admit I still have a lot to learn.
I am of the opinion that the DT466 is, hands down, the best mid-range diesel on the market today and has been for many years. Seeing as you do not have that option, I would have to suggest going with the Caterpillar mainly just for product support. Our neighboring town has several Freightliner buses with Mercedes engines and all I hear is a steady stream of complaints about electrical problems and the fact that the diagnostic software runs in the vicinity of $5000.
I have been working on Caterpillar heavy equipment for many years and I have a lot of respect for their engineering. |
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CPCSC_TD
Top Member
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2006 : 5:15:04 PM
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| Well said Thomas85-16! |
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722
Senior Member
United States
129 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2006 : 6:55:17 PM
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| MB 906 all the way. I have had them all IHC, CAT, Cummins, Detriot Diesel, Ford and this is currently the most dependable engine on the school bus market. |
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Brad Barker
Administrator
USA
874 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2006 : 12:08:16 PM
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| Three posts were removed due to their offensive nature. |
Brad A. Barker |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2006 : 10:03:29 AM
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| Sorry Brad. |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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Dodgeboy0111
New Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 10:47:48 AM
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| I hate to burst your bubble to the "if it's imported, it's better" croud; in response to the Mercedes engine versus the Cat, Cummins and Detroit. Yes, the Mercedes engine is a great engine, for one reason because it's an American made DETROIT DIESEL. When DaimlerChrysler split, Daimler kept Chrysler's part ownership in Detroit Diesel and the engine is now marketed as a Mercedes. |
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JustinB
Advanced Member
United States
490 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 2:00:11 PM
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| Diggin pretty deep in the archives. Thread date: 2006 |
I may not know the answer but I can usually find who does. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4546 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 2:04:49 PM
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| And a completely irrelevant thread for today's new buses :) Still, always fun to see things get bumped. |
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member
533 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 6:50:36 PM
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Well, it seems the consensus was the MBE 906 was the best out there. In retrospect, was it?  Were those the ones that burned oil, or were those the 900s? How were they otherwise? |
Edited by - 08 Thomas EF on 04/06/2012 6:50:58 PM |
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JustinB
Advanced Member
United States
490 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2012 : 06:11:53 AM
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| EPA '07 messed up more than one great engine plaform .... and completely eliminated a few others. |
I may not know the answer but I can usually find who does. |
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JRob
Advanced Member
207 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2012 : 06:22:01 AM
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| Yes, pre-'07 MBE's were solid engines. The combination of EPA07 and moving all production to the States proved too much to handle all at once. |
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bcressey
Senior Member
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2012 : 06:33:04 AM
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| What a difference a couple years makes. The pre 07 Mercedes was an incredible engine. Started great, excellent fuel mileage, durable. The CATs up here, not so much. |
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RichBusman
Advanced Member
453 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 07:41:00 AM
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Those pre-07 emissions MBEs definitely were sweet. But even the 2007 emissions ones seem to be working well, once they were rebuilt or fixed by the OEM.
2007 emissions Cats on the other hand are still a nightmare, and repairs to end users will be outrageous as they come out of warranty. |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2012 : 08:46:38 AM
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Wow this is an old thread. You can see I was skeptical at first too. The 2003 Thomas Freightliner we run has the MBE 906. The only trouble it's ever gave me was a cracked fuel tube. It's really been a good bus.
Check out the MBE 904 and 906s in action on those Unimogs. Those things are awesome. Slap a bus body on one of those and there would be no such thing as a "Snow Day".  |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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CAT or MERCEDES engine
