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Shubert
New Member
USA
3 Posts |
 Posted - 04/21/2006 : 4:18:31 PM
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| I often drive a 2005 model IC bus with the eight-lamp system and door open/close switches located the steering wheel. The switches are quirky and sometimes don't work correctly. The problem seems random...even though everything checks out good during pre-trip. Today, my eight-lamp system activated when opening the door at a RR crossing. This has happened twice and out of the blue. I am 100% certain I did not activate the ambers leading up to the RR crossing. I simply hit the open door switch after activating the four ways, opening the side window and stopping. How do I make 100% certain this doesn't happen again?? Is there a trick I'm unaware of?? There are police all over my district when school lets out - and a ticket for that violation is several hundered $$$ in my state. The mechanic cannot figure it out and he is pressured by his boss and right on up the line to brush this problem under the rug because it's not very common. If ever I was ticketed, my district surely would turn the other way and I'd be out a lot of money. Also, what EXACTLY does the "red override" switch do? Both times, pressing that button was the only way to get the system to finally turn off at that crossing. |
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IC RE 1629
Top Member
United States
5097 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 4:55:24 PM
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| The red override either cancels your stop arm and crossing gate, but leaves your overhead lights flashing. It may also cancel everything, overheads, stop arm, and crossing gate. |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 5:39:01 PM
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Was your master switch left on? If it is on, then of course the red lights are going to come on when you open the door, regardless of whether you had your ambers on leading up to the crossing or not.
The red override switch will cancel everything... the red overhead lights, stop arm, and crossing gate. |
If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 5:51:24 PM
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I'm guessing that the state where Shubert resides doesn't allow a master switch. If so, the reds only turn on after the ambers have been cycled.
If this is the case, then there is an issue in IC's programming that needs to be brought to their attention. Have your technician contact the dealership and inform them of the issue.
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Shubert
New Member
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2006 : 09:28:47 AM
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| Absolutely not. The master switch was NOT on. I've been driving for years - zero possibility. That's why I like the older buses in my district - there is a DEDICATED "master switch "on/off" away from the steering wheel. It's low-tech but full proof. Our new 2005 IC models have two toggle type switches on the steering wheel itself, much like cruise control type ones on some cars. They toggle slightly up and down and are nearly flush to that center padded area of the steering wheel, with the horn in between. The switch on the left = "open door" (when toggled up) & "close door" (when toggled down). The switch on the right = "activate lights" (when toggled up) & "red override" (when toggled down). Thus, there is no true dedicated master switch on/off like on our older buses. Bad idea it seems. I mostly agree with Richard (except my state does allow a master switch): There must be something getting crossed in the circuitry underneath that left toggle switch. As you approach as stop, you hit "activate lights". The ambers come on. Then, once stopped, you hit "open door". The reds then kick in, stop sign pops out, and the air-powered door opens. Once all onboard, you hit "close door" and the door obviously closes. However, by design, the reds remain on until you hit "activate lights" AGAIN, after which the reds cancel and you're good to go. Here's the problem: When approaching a RR crossing, you turn on the hazards (on the steering column and well away from everything else). You definately do NOT hit "activate lights"! Upon stopping and opening the side window, you then hit "open door". 95% of the time no problem - the door alone opens. BUT 5% of the time - BAMN! all of a sudden the 8 ways suddenly activate even though that "activate light" switch was never ever close to touched. That's what happened to me at the RR crossing and a couple other times. The only way to cancel it out is to immediately hit "red override", but it is sluggish and doesn't kick in until after the stop sign is fully extended. The mechanic is frustrated as he's not an electrical engineer. The administrator who ordered these buses purchased does not know what an 8-lamp system is let alone how to start a bus, and is of no help pulling strings. I'm left driving the bus...predicting an $800 moving violation ticket being issued to me within the next month since the police and especially a separate state unit keeps a close eye on buses crossing tracks in my district. 8-ways at a RR crossing is clearly against the law...but I'm at the mercy of quirky circuitry for the time being:( |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2006 : 12:03:21 PM
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I wish you the best of luck getting this resolved, I can certainly understand you don't want to end up with a ticket.
I would refuse to drive the bus if it were to keep on doing it, tell them to either fix it or else disconnect those switches and install regular switches on the control panel. If refusing to drive the bus is not an option for you then if you were to get pulled over I would plead my case to the police officer. Tell the officer the entire situation and that you can't get them to fix it, maybe he/she will go after the school district instead of writing you a ticket. The best option would be to have seperate switches installed on the control panel. Some districts are ordering the buses like that or having both sets of switches put in.
These switches were disucssed in another topic on here, you may want to read it http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12960 . One forum member denies that there is a problem with these swithces however you will see a few drivers who drive the same type of bus are having problems with them. |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2006 : 1:07:36 PM
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Had a similar issue with the eight-ways on an older Carpenter bus. The lights were erratic, didn't know what they were going to do when activated and after deactivated. Yellows and reds would flash at the same time, not activate when the door opened, would shut down when kids were part way across the road. The cheap switch was replaced, and the system checked repeatedly without failing. The mechanics joking said I might be hallucinating. One afternoon the lights went nuts while parking the bus, drove it up to the mechanics and said, "I must be hallucinating again, look at my eight-ways. Because the pilot light would sometimes flicker, thought might be a corroded power feed connection at some point from the source, or internally, spiking the device with power surges. The so-called fail-safe unit was replaced with a different model and the anomaly ended. (jk)
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Edited by - JK on 04/22/2006 1:09:01 PM |
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Bus 29
Active Member
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2006 : 6:05:06 PM
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| The problem is with the switch that is used to open the door. Both of our 2005's have done this. Replaced the switch and the problem will be fixed. |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2006 : 6:10:29 PM
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| Shubert, sorry to hear you're having problems with the steering wheel switches. As you may have noticed from the link provided by thomas86_a's post, I drive an '05 IC also and have been having problems with the steering wheel switches on my bus as well. I had to have them replaced with the new heavier duty replacements. I guess I expected that you would have a master switch on your bus because on my '05 IC, I've got a master switch on the left panel, and it also sounds like your steering wheel switches work slightly differently than mine. Good luck getting the problem straightened out. If I were you, I'd refuse to drive the bus until the problem is fixed. If your mechanic can't fix it, send it back to the dealer for warranty work... if it's an '05 it may still be under warranty. |
If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
Edited by - BBInt.10 on 04/22/2006 6:11:27 PM |
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IC-CEiswhereiwannabe
Advanced Member
USA
214 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2006 : 07:48:34 AM
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Shubert, I feel for you. That's a horrible situation. I hope yur company or school district would stand behind you in that situation since they bought the bus.
It sounds to me like your switches work differently from the ones my company buys. We HAVE a seperate master switch on the left panel. I checked out the operator's manual yesterday while on a trip in an 06 and found that our work like this:
1. master switch on
2. (approach) Hit top right "FLASHERS ON/OFF"
3. (stop) Hit bottom right "RED OVERRIDE" (reds on, door closed)
4. (boarding) Hit top left "DOOR OPEN" (reds on, door opens)
5. (end boarding) Hit bottom left "CLOSE DOOR" (reds on, door closed)
6. (continue) Hit bottom right "RED OVERRIDE" (reds off, door closed)
7. master switch off
Unfortunatly, the system does not work, as you know. The thing that works best for me is:
1. "FLASHERS ON/OFF"
2. "DOOR OPEN"
3. "DOOR CLOSE"
With this way, there is much less chance for the system to mess itself up. On countless occasions now, I've had the system turn on ambers after reds, cancel lights altogether leaving kids in teh road, or even refuse to open the door or turn to reds leaving me in he middle of the road with just ambers.
IC NEEDS TO KNOW ABOUT THESE PROBLEMS. THEY SEEM TO BE NATIONWIDE! |
Why can't U C what I C in IC? |
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BlueBird44
Top Member
USA
1639 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2006 : 10:17:30 AM
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There is defintley a problem with these steering wheel switches I drive a 2006 IC-CE and I have them on my steering wheel and I didn't have problems with them at first but now I am coming up to a stop and my ambers come on but when I open the door no reds come on unless I quickly hit "Red Override" this only happens once and a great while.
Now I have a master switch that has to be on to run the amber lights. If I don't run the amber lights then no lights will come on so I never have to turn my "master switch" off at railroad tracks. If I am just hitting open door that all that it does. If I hit red override then they will come on.
I have addressed this problem to our mechanic since my bus has been sitting waiting for a water pump for over two weeks. I told them this is something else that needs to be fixed.
I would let the mechanic now this is not only happening to you but to other people but with different senarios. I happened to go with the lady who owns my bus to pick our loaner bus up and she had me tell the mechanics what was occuring and I told them I have read that other people are having the same problem so hopefully they will really look into this with IC or our dealer. |
IC-The Golden Shield of School Transportation |
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BusBabe1036
Active Member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 4:09:31 PM
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| Call your local International dealer. There is a TSB out to fix this problem. The switches "wear" after about six months. They start sending a higher voltage signal to the bus ESC computer. The computer gets "confused", and turns on the lights at the wrong time. The dealer will replace the switches, and reflash the ESC to accept a wider voltage variance in the future. That should do the trick!! It worked for me on my new IC's. Took the dealer about 15 minutes to fix it, and it has been A-OK since! Hope this helps. |
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8-lamp system sometimes activates at RR crossing
