School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
 All Forums
 Professional Garage
 Enter Forum: Professional Garage
 IC Steering Wheel Switches
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

BBInt.10
Top Member

USA
1042 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2006 :  2:56:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit BBInt.10's Homepage  Send BBInt.10 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I'm sure anyone who drives an '05+ IC knows how lousy those steering wheel buttons can be when they're not working right. They're great to start, but they're not heavy duty enough, and they wear out from everyday use, to the point where you really have to make sure you push hard in order for the function to register (red override switch turn the red lights on, door to actually open, etc.). I just wanted to let everyone know that International is now sending out new, much heavier duty, replacement switches for this problem. I got two new switches put on my bus this week and what a difference they make!

Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2181 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2006 :  06:36:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why not put the controls back on the panel. Are these multiplexed/data stream. Or just some complicated crap? I never saw one.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Go to Top of Page

ModMech
Top Member

USA
948 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2006 :  07:54:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit ModMech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Of course getting stuff spilled into them always makes them last much longer.

There have been very few reported problems with the steering wheel mounted door/cruise switches, they have been in production for over 4 years now. I recently drove an '03 4400 with over 100,000 miles on it, and the switches were factory (had not been replaced).

The switches themselves are NOT multiplexed, but they are very low current devices, so if they get contaminated (pop, coffee, water) they do not activate correctly.

If you want customer service, you NEED an International!
Go to Top of Page

rswboe
Top Member

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2006 :  09:41:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You mean they don't work better when lubricated with coffee??

Live each like it's going to be your last, one day you'll be right!
Go to Top of Page

BBInt.10
Top Member

USA
1042 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2006 :  5:26:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit BBInt.10's Homepage  Send BBInt.10 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
It's not that we spill things into them. It's the fact that these factory-installed switches are meant for cruise control, which in most cases doesn't get pushed more than a few times a day, if even. Try putting one of these switches in a school bus for amber/red activation, or for door opening. Then imagine pushing each of these buttons 60-80 times a day, five days a week. International must be getting a ton of complaints about these switches in school bus applications in order for them to change to a much heavier duty switch. My company has over 100 '05+ CE's and the problems with these buttons are widespread through our fleet. I think these buttons are a great idea, one of the few changes I have seen in modern school buses that seems worth while. It's especially nice when they work right.

If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver.
Go to Top of Page

ModMech
Top Member

USA
948 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2006 :  08:40:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit ModMech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Dave,

Really, those very same switches have been in use for years, and I have not seen or heard of any problems with them overall.

I do know that when the driver's side windows are opened and it rains, that there have been cases like this where the switches get wet and fail. But that has been a problem since electricity met water, some millions of years ago.

If you want customer service, you NEED an International!
Go to Top of Page

thomas86_a
Top Member

USA
4413 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2006 :  09:39:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit thomas86_a's Homepage  Send thomas86_a an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ModMech

Dave,

Really, those very same switches have been in use for years, and I have not seen or heard of any problems with them overall.

I do know that when the driver's side windows are opened and it rains, that there have been cases like this where the switches get wet and fail. But that has been a problem since electricity met water, some millions of years ago.



Why do you insist on turning this into a non-issue? He didn't complain about International or IC-Corp, didn't say anything negative about them. Actually his post was quite positive. He simply passed along information for people in the event that they needed to replace theirs. If International wasn't having issues or complaints with them they wouldn't have sent out a newer switch design. He said coffee hasn't been spilled so then you imply that the windows were left open and rain did it!

If I remember correctly you are the one who took the job with the "largest manufacturer of medium duty truck" obviously you are doing your job well!

If you have an International, you NEED customer service.
Go to Top of Page

IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2006 :  11:48:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not to intrude, but I must ask, why is everything always blamed on the driver? They take pride (in most cases) in what they drive, so I just don't understand why poeple always pin negative situations on them.

He was just telling us how International was helpful and sent him the parts he needed. And he was letting it be known to all that if they have the same problems, they rae easily fixed.

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
Go to Top of Page

second.flood
Top Member

USA
636 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2006 :  12:16:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IC-RE

Not to intrude, but I must ask, why is everything always blamed on the driver? They take pride (in most cases) in what they drive, so I just don't understand why poeple always pin negative situations on them.

He was just telling us how International was helpful and sent him the parts he needed. And he was letting it be known to all that if they have the same problems, they rae easily fixed.




You'd have to be a mechanic to fully understand... I do know IC has an update for these switches-BBInt.10 is correct.
Go to Top of Page

ModMech
Top Member

USA
948 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2006 :  4:27:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit ModMech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I feel that I was fairly explicit that there are not a lot of problems with these switches, that is all.

I have seen many vehicles, and this is not common, that is why I am somewhat suprised to see this report. I also know that generally I DID have switch troubles on all our buses when windows were left open - evan I have done that, repeatedly.

Furthermore, I did not blame a driver, I mearly stated what we all know already. Things get spilled, many drivers have beverages with them and consume them in the driver's seat, windows get left open, stuff happens. I have not yet met anyone who is perfect, and has never made a mistake that damaged something - myself included most definately. I also know that having been involved in the school bus business since '88, and at least in our area, the driver pool does not represent the best of the labor market - it is HARD to get good and responsible people for $9/hr. or less. Heck, there are many people who would be responsible for $1/hr, and some that would not be for a million.

Now the question is, who here is really involved with the issue, and who is just making waves?

If you want customer service, you NEED an International!
Go to Top of Page

thomas86_a
Top Member

USA
4413 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2006 :  6:23:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit thomas86_a's Homepage  Send thomas86_a an AOL message  Reply with Quote
"Now the question is, who here is really involved with the issue, and who is just making waves?"

Well I'm certainly not involved with the issue, so I guess you could take it as making waves. My goal is not to start an arguement over the issue I just didn't care for the way the response was presented. Do we have any of the switches in question? No, but if someone starts a topic informing people of a switch replacement that may or may not be defective why do we have to place blame on drivers? Is it not possible that maybe they have a small defective batch of switches? Chrysler just issued a recall on wiper motors that they traced back to a faulty batch of parts, is it not possible for this to have happened with a batch of the door and amber activation swithces made for IC-Corp buses?


If you have an International, you NEED customer service.
Go to Top of Page

International-9.0
Advanced Member

USA
459 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2006 :  7:23:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
John, you make a valid point about drink spills and rain. I'm sure that's the reason some of them have problems. However, you could at least acknowledge the possibility that defective switches do exist, esp. if the switch design was changed. Edit: What I should have said was perhaps defective on the count of not being designed heavy duty enough for the job, sorry.

Edited by - International-9.0 on 03/26/2006 5:24:22 PM
Go to Top of Page

IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2006 :  9:09:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think the point was that the switch was just worn out from being used all day every day.

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
Go to Top of Page

Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2181 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2006 :  10:15:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anyone have a drawing of this circut? I am curious on it's design. I am working out one on paper for a class 2 data stream system. One wire! It can be implemented into the multiplex units existing system.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Go to Top of Page

mlkdrives41
Top Member

USA
2055 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2006 :  09:44:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On our '05's the switches are wearing out from use and we are not allowed to have coffee on the bus, rain being inevitable. They just get worn out. Trouble is the switch costs $88 each and you need two of them per bus.

Nothing great has ever been accomplished without enthusiasm!
Go to Top of Page

IC-CEiswhereiwannabe
Advanced Member

USA
214 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2006 :  9:19:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Our IC-CE's are experinceing some issues too. Its not to the point of replacement but I have seen on many occasions a driver pushes "DOOR CLOSE" and gets the door starting to close and popping back open or pushing "RED OVERRIDE" and getting the door to close and lights off.

The bottom line is they don't work as well as they did when they were brand new.

Why can't U C what I C in IC?
Go to Top of Page

lovmybus
Active Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2006 :  02:11:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
on my 2005,the door close with steering wheel switch,but the stop sign and reds dont cancel till you hit the close button 2 or 3 times...im thinking its the switch going bad..?...
Go to Top of Page

Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2181 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2006 :  07:01:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No one has a drawing of this!?! Come on guys, I know someone has it. You got me curious.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Go to Top of Page

Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2181 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2006 :  07:02:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My fax is 1-812-874-3409

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Go to Top of Page

ColoradoBusmech
Active Member

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2006 :  09:05:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We have recently purchased new IC buses on which some of them we have had the steering wheel door switch replaced under warranty. I was informed that IC had updated that switch. We are now specing buses with the door switch located on the console. The drivers don't like it when the steering wheel is upside down during a turn and they need to activate the student lights. They prefer to have the switch located on the console.
Go to Top of Page

mlkdrives41
Top Member

USA
2055 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2006 :  7:10:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The reds don't cancel and the sign doesn't go in until you start moving again unless you hit the red override button.

The other wierd thing with the IC's is you can't activate the yellows until you are going less than 45 mph. On some of our windy mountain roads (a main road)it can be a problem because I want to activate the lights well in advance of the stop. But I have to be slowing down before I can turn on the yellows. If I am braking for what traffic behind me thinks is no reason it could lead to problems, although I only had one car practically up the tailpipe so far, probably because he wasn't paying attention.

Nothing great has ever been accomplished without enthusiasm!
Go to Top of Page

NewBee Driver
Senior Member

USA
191 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2006 :  7:58:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was not aware that you couldnt turn on the ambers unless you were going under 45. I'll definatly have to try that one tomorrow

Driving Seattle To School - And Loving It!!
Go to Top of Page

B. Busguy33
Top Member

USA
3444 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2006 :  1:52:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit B. Busguy33's Homepage  Send B. Busguy33 an AOL message  Send B. Busguy33 a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
As far as the steering wheel switches are concerned:

I've heard from a couple of drivers that they have to press the door open/close switch two or three times for it to work. These buses are a little over one month old with 2,500 +/- miles on them.
Go to Top of Page

BBInt.10
Top Member

USA
1042 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2006 :  5:11:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit BBInt.10's Homepage  Send BBInt.10 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
My new amber/red override switch is doing great, however I've still got to press the door open button a couple times on occasion to get the door to open. This is with the new "updated" switches. I don't mind pushing the door open button twice... it's when the red override switch wouldn't register that was the problem because then I'd close the door and the reds would go off... not good if you have someone crossing.

If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver.
Go to Top of Page

IC-CEiswhereiwannabe
Advanced Member

USA
214 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2006 :  5:49:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
... it's when the red override switch wouldn't register that was the problem because then I'd close the door and the reds would go off... not good if you have someone crossing.


He's right. My bus had to go in for inspection several days ago and I subbed in an '05. I had major problems with the switches that day. More than once I left kids crossing the road and I inadvertantly turned off my reds because I THOUGHT I had pressed the "red override" button. I guarantee. In another 3 or 4 years you won't see ANY of these switches being made anymore.

It will be just like International's "LINEAR DOOR OPENER"

Remember that?

Why can't U C what I C in IC?
Go to Top of Page

lovmybus
Active Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2006 :  02:01:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
you can not turn the yellows on over 45 mph...i had to check this for myself yesterday...
Go to Top of Page

LBDboater
Advanced Member

USA
279 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2006 :  1:00:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What was the "linear door opener"? Also, I dont drive one, but I hate the idea that you cant turn on the ambers above 45 MPH. Its at those speeds you need to turn the ambers on you warn people going faster. I know one bus driver said that he/she turned on their hazards above 45 to get peoples attention. Thats crazy.
Go to Top of Page

Cody
Top Member

United States
1630 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2006 :  1:43:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cody's Homepage  Reply with Quote
http://www.schoolbuscentral.com/gallery/updates/oct05/images/ic_002e.jpg

That is the linear door opener. It pulled straight out instead of in a swinging motion of a conventional door opener.
Go to Top of Page

LBDboater
Advanced Member

USA
279 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2006 :  4:42:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So what didnt work with the linear door opener?
Go to Top of Page

B. Busguy33
Top Member

USA
3444 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2006 :  4:53:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit B. Busguy33's Homepage  Send B. Busguy33 an AOL message  Send B. Busguy33 a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
So what didnt work with the linear door opener?


A couple reasons:

1. The door handle/mechanism took a lot of force to use each time you wanted to open or close the door.

2. If the linear door lever was pulled out all the way (this would enable the entrance door to remain open), then it would be in the way for when the driver wanted to leave the driver's seat. With the lever pulled out, I'm sure male drivers especially hated that door handle configuration for a very good reason.
Go to Top of Page

BlueBird44
Top Member

USA
1639 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2006 :  5:50:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think I am going to need my switches replaced or fixed on my 06 IC-CE. I have noticed latley when I turn on my ambers they come on but when I stop and hit door open my door opens but it cancels my reds and I have no lights on so I quickly hit "RED OVERRIDE" and they pop back on. It scares me and at first I thought I was hitting the Amber Button instead of door open and it was my error but I made sure latley that my hand is no where near the switch and I know for a fact that it's malfuctining. So when my contractor gets back from her trip I will inform her she needs to contact our dealer and see what can be done. I am happy this subject is brough up so I know it's not just my bus. Otherwise I love the swtiches on the steering wheel.


IC-The Golden Shield of School Transportation
Go to Top of Page

Bassman
Top Member

USA
558 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2006 :  05:01:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In Maryland our steering wheels are wired differently, but the system has a neat design. Each switch sends a different voltage to the ESC over one wire because of the different resistors built into the circuit. I recently heard the system described at a training session in Tulsa sponsered by NAPT. The diagram for the system is in Chapter 5 of the IC Corp Body Circuit Manual Number S08291 which is availible on ISIS (but the book is easier to use).
Go to Top of Page

JC Theriault
Top Member

Canada
1326 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2006 :  08:23:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bassman - that would be called "multiplexing" and its becoming more and more common on commercial and personal vehicles. Its nice to be able to move your control panel switches to more convenient slots without having to disconnect and reconnect wires but it'll take a long time for mechanics to get used to this newer system.

JC
Go to Top of Page

Bassman
Top Member

USA
558 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2006 :  12:49:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The headlight/dashlight/lamp check switches and certain others like traction control are multiplexed and communicate over a data link as you describe but the steering wheel uses low voltage switches where the current coming from each switch has already passed through one certain resistor so the ESC can identify the request that is being made by the amount of voltage present when the signal comes back from the steering wheel to the ESC. It's kind of a neat idea but hard to get a good description of. It would be nice if the IC had more circuits that were multiplexed as you described. In Maryland, our 8 light circuits and doors are required to be on the panel.
Go to Top of Page

IC-CEiswhereiwannabe
Advanced Member

USA
214 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2006 :  5:07:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm convinced that IC made a mistake with these steering wheel switches. Lord knows I love IC to death but these switches are a mistake.

1. They are not heavy duty enough. When these buses are 10 or 15 years old and being used as spares and work trucks and church buses you'll see what I'm talking about.

2. Many of us have some part of our route that is either in a heavy urban area or out in the boon docks. Your steering wheel is not always perfectly straight when you must activate your ambers.

3. This switches require us to think to much about switches and lights and too little about the children crossing in front of our buses.

I'm gonna get a new IC-CE next year. I'm serioulsy thinking about asking my supervisor to try and get the company to spec me one with a left side three position switch like the my current 2003 has.

Why can't U C what I C in IC?
Go to Top of Page

IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2006 :  5:41:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Has anyone seen or heard if the RE and FE are to become avaliable with the steering wheel switches feature?
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
 


School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums © 2017 School Bus Fleet Magazine Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.22 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000