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JSG4dFan
New Member
USA
2 Posts |
 Posted - 07/27/2003 : 7:21:29 PM
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I have an '83 Chevy school bus (Thomas body, 9 row length, 350/4-speed manual) that currently serves as my "poor boy's RV", and for various reasons I'm thinking of upgrading to a newer diesel powered bus. I'd like to stay with a front engine conventional. From what little looking I've done, it seems rather obvious that Internationals are numerous and reasonably priced, so here's what I'd like to know:
Is the DT360 a good engine choice? What might be better?
How well does it accelerate/pull hills? As a frame of reference, my bus has a well-built 350 small block (modified, about 300-325 hp I would guess -- 7.17 gears, so 60 mph is about all I can stand)
The 5 speed manual -- is it configured like a 3 speed with a crawler first and an overdrive 5th? (I'm not at all interested in an auto)
What kind of fuel mileage could I reasonably expect? I have a seller telling me that his DT360/5-speed gets 12 mpg @ 55 mph, and won't go under 10 mpg (highway, on the governer). If that's the case, I'm getting excited!
This same seller says his bus is governed to 65 mph. Can this be modified/eliminated?
I have many more questions, but I'll leave it at this for the moment.
Thanks in advance,
Scott |
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Peter
Top Member
USA
1057 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 8:39:29 PM
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The DT360 is a great runner and couples well with the International five speed. This transmission has a granny gear, as you thought. You are going to lose some speed climbing hills. I don't know how it compares with your 350 - someone else may.
Last year, I had a '92 Blue Bird/International with the DT360 and a five speed. It turned in fuel mileage in the 7-10 range in mixed city/highway driving. The other bus like this was run mostly on the highway at its max speed of 67. The driver told me he usually got about 10 mpg. |
Spicer is nicer. |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 09:05:43 AM
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Our last gas engine bus was our 86 model, it had a 345 International, our first diesel bus was in 1989 a DT360. The 345 would run circles around that DT360! Our 85 Chevy had the 350 gaser and that would smoke the thing as well. If I were taking the gas engine out of my bus and putting a diesel in (does anybody see me doing this?) I would look towards the DT466, the engine has been around for a long time and does a pretty good job. From the sounds of it you want something that is going to move your bus at a good rate of speed and take it up the hills without losing a lot of speed. The only DT360 we have left is the 93 and that is paired with a five speed manual, as the first two (89 and 91) were paired with auto's. The manual trans helps with acceleration but not all that much. 10mpg was the highest fuel mileage we saw in that thing.
I think if you are looking for the same performance you are getting out of your gaser then you need to look for something a little larger than the DT360.
Enjoy your bus, I'm glad to hear it has a Thomas Body, I'm a big fan of those! |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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JSG4dFan
New Member
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 5:02:41 PM
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Thanks for the replies, guys.
I realize that I'll probably lose a little acceleration compared to my bus (I built that engine myself -- it has a laundry list of high performance parts), but I'm thinking that the torque and fuel mileage benefits are going to win me over (I'd like to be able to tow better than I can now). If I "regear" mine so that 60 mph no longer equals valve float, then I'm going to lose hills anyway, and I can't see an overdrive or a gear change picking up more than 1 mpg or so. I only get 6 - 7.5 mpg as it is now.
I'll tell you what I'm thinking about -- a 29 passenger International. It's the 6 row short body, but still built on the full size chassis. Would that not make one of the world's finest tow vehicles? I've never seen one with a 5 speed, though. I wonder how hard the swap would be from DT360/auto to DT360/manual.... anyone ever tried that? |
"There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness"
-- Dave Barry |
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92FrdCarp#11
Top Member
USA
1455 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 7:51:08 PM
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If you were to change from a gas engine to a diesel engine, you would have to change gauges and other stuff.
Changing from auto. to manual, you would have to change a bunch of stuff, I do not know what all though. It is more work than what it seems. |
Johnny
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steven_george88
Active Member
30 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 09:29:08 AM
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Yeah, the 29 passenger on the full size frame makes a great hauler. Lots of passenger room, super heavy duty, great powerful brakes. I've got an 89 that I use to pull our racebike trailer around. It's got the DT360 in it with the Allison Auto. The 360 does a great job with the current gearing as long as you don't want to go too fast (tops out at around 65, and likes to drive around 58-60mph), although it has it's hands full pulling large hills. I usually get around 8-10mpg while pulling the trailer
It really does pull well considering it's displacement is only 360 cu in. I'm still considering trying to get a higher flow air filter (does K&N make one) and possibly adding an intercooler to try to get it to pull a little stronger without smoking.
I would love to have found a 29 passenger bus on the full size chassis with the DT466, but I looked for a couple months before I found the one I have. I'd like to swap the 360 in my bus for a 466, but I'm not sure if they use the same Allison tranny for those two engines, and I don't think I could find a good 466 that I could afford.
Until then, I'm more than happy with the one I have, and I'm guessing that even though the DT360 wouldn't accelerate as well as your gasser or pull hills as well, it would be a lot better for pulling a trailer. |
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 7:43:18 PM
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The DT360 engine is a great choice. The 5 speed manual trans is not a granny and overdrive set-up. It is 5 speed direct (no O.D.).
If you can get an aftercooled/intercooled engine. They put out more power and usually offer better fuel economy.
Joe |
Joe
Land of the Free, because of the Brave! |
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Peter
Top Member
USA
1057 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 8:44:51 PM
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Joe or anyone else who knows,
What's the difference between the two setups? Everyone I know has always referred to first as a granny in regards to IH five speeds. I thought that the lowest gear could just be considered a granny if it would not move the vehicle faster than about 5 mph, which the IH 5 speed will not.
Also, when a transmission's ratios are such that you cannot go very fast in each gear, as in the International 5 speed (5, 15, 30, 45, governed max) is that considered high or low gearing? I've heard people refer to it both ways and would like to know which is correct. |
Spicer is nicer. |
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steven_george88
Active Member
30 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 04:53:57 AM
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Does anyone know if there's room to add an intercooler to a non-intercooled 360 without moving the radiator back? I would like to add an intercooler, but really haven't looked into it much yet. Does the intercooled 360 have a larger radiator to make up for the intercooler being stacked in front of it?
Also, does anyone know where I could find an intercooler for the 360? Thanks! |
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Newbie thinking of going diesel -- questions
