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mastertech
Advanced Member
274 Posts |
 Posted - 12/11/2011 : 6:52:01 PM
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I had one loose power and die on the road.Started back up and just ran rough . It had a code for #3 cyllinder not contributing. I did the balloon test on the fuel lines and sure enough the right bank had an injector blowout the valve. I convinced management to replace all the injectors on that bank due to how much of a nightmare it is to even get at the system. As long as its apart does anyone have any advice on what else should be replaced? I am changing both drive belts and cleaning the EGR as well.
How long are water pumps lasting? ,idler pulleys,power steering pumps,thermostats ect. I just want to back into this thing very often. The bedplate is also weeping slightly but I dont think it will ever be fixxed unless it starts pouring. Can these engine even be removed from the chassis? On a pickup you can yank the body off but on a e450 bus what is the procedure. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 07:47:52 AM
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Ours went 180,000 and I had to get into the front end to replace the vacuum pump as the silencer had rusted off the pump. I replaced thermostat, water pump, belt and tensioner assembly while I had the radiator out as its a pita to get that far.
Only other parts I have replaced on ours in the 180k is the starter, a couple alternators, turbo and a couple EGR valves.
AFAIK if the engine has to be removed, it comes out the front on an E Series cutaway bus. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
Edited by - Fastback on 12/12/2011 07:50:19 AM |
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willism
Advanced Member
United States
250 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2011 : 05:20:40 AM
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| You guys have been lucky the 8 6.0l we have had all had egr coolers, egr valves 2 bed plate jobs 2 full wiring harnesses almost all have had all injectors replaced, fuel filter housings 5 turbos every 2 yrs the lower ac compressor burns up and last year 5 radiators in 2 weeks. I would change all the idlers just to be safe we had one lock up 3 weeks ago with no indication it was going bad haven't had to much issue with thermostats but if you got it torn down change there cheap and easy to change.Weve had a few power steering pumps go out but not that bad to change if you got a lift or pit.And as fastback said the engine comes out the front with a special attachment to lift it out of there. Also depending on how bad the bed plate leaks it also can cause one to die we have one leaking and died once due to that. |
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eddo
Advanced Member
USA
311 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2011 : 07:31:28 AM
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I haven't had too many issues with my single 6.0L Ford, other than a/c compressors. 85,000 miles and it is on a/c comp #3.
I have been reading on another forum that these things are experiencing a lot of Fuel Injector Control Module failures, though. And lots of EGR issues, so many that alot of folks just perform a delete of the EGR.
Here is the link to where I am talking about: http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f23/
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mastertech
Advanced Member
274 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2011 : 11:18:03 AM
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| I cant get on to the ford website to find this out .Maybe some of you can quicly expalin how to get the secondary alternator belt off around the fan clutch soleniod wires. Do you have to remove the shrouds? It looks like the wire can be removed from the shroud but it is stretchd to the max. I guess the other thing would be remove the fan off the water pump pulley . I got the main belt off. LOL |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2011 : 12:38:08 PM
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| I usually end up pulling the intercooler and radiator. :( |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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willism
Advanced Member
United States
250 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2011 : 04:16:11 AM
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| Pretty much like wolfor said we just remove radiator cooler and condenser all in one unit get the fan and shroud out then you can get a good look at everything pretty painless that way. Not sure what kit you have but make sure if you have the kit that we have is remember the position of the small belt on the 2nd compressor pulley cause if you don't get it right you'll launch the belt the first time you hit the key that's always fun. |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2011 : 06:34:28 AM
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| I've had them apart for broken TransAir brackets. Both were under warranty so it was painless for the customer. Doing that job flatrate I would suggest replacing anything that looks worn and fix any leaks while in there. I am still learning these beasts. |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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dekalbfleet
Active Member
22 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2011 : 12:47:51 PM
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| If its not to late and you still have it apart replace the o-rings on the dummy plugs on the front of the fuel rails (the wavy rail ontop of the injectors). For ease of removal take off the motor mount on the engine for the side you are working on then raise or lower the engine as needed to remove the valve cover or injectors. |
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DougBier
Senior Member
78 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2011 : 12:53:44 PM
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| Okay guys I must be stupid and need some ducation here . What is the balloon test ? I am stumped !!! Thanks |
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mastertech
Advanced Member
274 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2011 : 06:51:46 AM
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The ballon test catches a injector with a leaking pintle valve that might not show up on an diagnostic test or if you dont have the software. You remove the 2 fuel lines off the filter housing and stick a small party balloon on over the ends. Just crank the engine and an injector leaking compresion back into the fuel system will blow up the ballon . To narrow down which injector just remove glow plugs until it doesnt blow up the balloon. Its super easy on a vt365 but access makes it harder on a 6.0.
The classic symtom is the engine will slowly lose power more and more until it stalls or barely runs . Usually acompanied by a severe miss on one bank. If you shut it off and let it sit for a few minutes it may start up fine and do it over again.
Dekalbfleet which orings are you refering to . The oil rail plugs? Like where the ICPS goes?
Funny note on this bus I eliminated about ten feet of heater hose that was wrapped around the engine for no reason. It was so packed in there we had no idea it even had a second alternator. |
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bluebirdvision
Top Member
USA
1081 Posts |
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mastertech
Advanced Member
274 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2011 : 6:36:19 PM
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| Looks like Im jinxed . Our other 6.0 which I put one side of injectors in a few years ago is running like crap again. I love the ford instrument cluster by the way . A completely useless voltmeter which most of the time stays in the center weather the batteries are dead or fully charged. And who puts the glowing red needles for the gauges in front of the numbers you need to read how fast your going. The 2010 model goes by 20mph increments so you need to do math to figure what each line means.LOL |
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C.HARDY
Advanced Member
354 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2011 : 07:30:22 AM
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| We have a 6.0L in a '03 service truck and it has to stayed plugged up for it to start and must run for about 10 - 15 minutes to clear up the smoke and miss before it can be driven. Over 3500 bucks and its still a piece of junk. 188k miles. We are just learning to live with it. I feel for you guys with the vans. |
"Hardybusman" |
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bluebirdvision
Top Member
USA
1081 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2011 : 3:52:08 PM
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| Does anyone else notice that it takes a good 5 minutes or so before the alternator kicks in and charges the batteries? They all seem to do it, no matter the age or mileage. Sometimes if the batteries are low on a bus that hasn't moved in a few weeks I'm always afraid its going to die before it starts charging. |
Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_212311114614&ap=1
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Edited by - bluebirdvision on 12/30/2011 3:52:49 PM |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2011 : 08:23:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bluebirdvision
Does anyone else notice that it takes a good 5 minutes or so before the alternator kicks in and charges the batteries? They all seem to do it, no matter the age or mileage. Sometimes if the batteries are low on a bus that hasn't moved in a few weeks I'm always afraid its going to die before it starts charging.
Its not that the alternator is "not kicking in", its that the glow plugs stay on for a time after engine starts and they are drawing so much current it appears tthe alternator is not charging. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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bluebirdvision
Top Member
USA
1081 Posts |
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jfbiscarner
Active Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2012 : 10:31:40 AM
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For further 6.0 tear downs a EGR delete is well worth puting on also, the coolers r know for cracking and leaking coolant in to the bellows and smoking bad i have had some with intermitten ses light pop on and off and some others no problem after deleting the EGR.When doing injectors on these navistars do all of them at the same time why change 4 spark plugs on a 8 cyl tune up?
It is very common on the 7.3 about 150,000 miles replacing injectors it wakes them back up and improves fuel economy very much |
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jfbiscarner
Active Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2012 : 10:43:38 AM
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| The way we pushed them out to 150,000 was hot wiring the IAP sensor with a 5 ohm resister and boosting pressure to push the injectors harder. Workes great and never had any issues and for $2.99 and s soildering gun and shink tube u can do 5 engines |
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mastertech
Advanced Member
274 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 2:53:32 PM
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What is the purpose of the IAP mod? Does it help with starting or running?
Our busses run on road so egr deletes can not be installed. |
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jfbiscarner
Active Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 06:33:45 AM
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Moding this will improve the engine response and acceleration it's like adding a HP chip.
It tricks the ecmu in to running more ICP which boosts the injectors to push more fuel.Put the resistor between red/grey and blue/green wire at the sensor and plug it in. Try it out if u don't like it unplug it pull the resistor out and back to normal shouldn't have to cut and wires just put it in the plug end and snap it I the sensor |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 07:35:27 AM
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| Do these Fords use OBD2 software or what program do you view data with? I would like to see a screen shot of a cold start on the scanner vs a warm engine. |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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jfbiscarner
Active Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 6:08:51 PM
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| This mod im talking about is for the 7.3l only and they have the 9 pin connector hook up and view with laptop we dont have the software for the navs.We do old school flash codes on those buses we have quiet the mixer of engines at our garage mostly c7/3126 7.3lt mbe900 cummins 6.7lt |
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mastertech
Advanced Member
274 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2012 : 4:48:49 PM
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Well the 6.0 nightmare continues . The bus started purging coolant on the highway so the heating system would get air in it and stop heating. A head gaskets we go. Its quite interesting to pull and engine out of a van. The heads were warped .002" The oil cooler had no gunk in it and was clean as new. I am also doing the bed plate. Although its an extremely complicated job to do the hardest part so far has been ordering the parts. Ford doesnt have a complete gasket and seal kit making ordering the mound of seals a real pain. We are going with the ARP head studs as well as the black onyx gaskets.
The thing I just dont understand is why the 6.0 has such a high failure rate of head gaskets and the vt365 has not had an issue with it.
This is also the new upgraded commonized engine .
For anyone who wants to get a lot of good tips powerstrokehelp.com has a bunch of great videos on youtube . 6.0's is all they do . |
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6.0 in ford vans?
