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Dillier23
New Member
7 Posts |
 Posted - 03/15/2011 : 3:23:22 PM
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| Hello, firtst post here. I actually own a 2004 International 4400 with the DT466E engine. I have read numerous forums about this engine and have found the most info on this site. I have a couple questions to ask you guys. It seems like every DT466E from 2000-2007 has been a troublesome engine. From what I've read, most of them need rebuilt very early in life, say between 175,000-250,000 miles? is this the norm? I would assume that they should last much longer lives than that? Fill me in on what you guys have seen and let me kow if I'm right on or completely off base. Thanks in advance! |
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Kodie
Top Member
United States
2028 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2011 : 4:38:56 PM
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| As far as I've heard the 466E has been a very dependable engine for many operations and haven't heard of any unusual issues on these engines. I wouldn't consider 175-250,000 to be early in life as there are many districts that replace before that or around that time due to state laws, district policy, emissions or what have you. Maybe in comparison to a heavy duty commercial truck engine (semis for example) it's early, but for a school bus that's up there. |
Edited by - Kodie on 03/15/2011 4:40:24 PM |
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Tatum
Top Member
United States
606 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2011 : 5:07:06 PM
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I've heard of SO many DT466E's that needed to be rebuilt due to coolant leaking into the oil. When those engines sit for a while without being driven, they tend not to do so well.
In my opinion, the DT466E wasn't as good as the original DT466. |
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IBTMech
Top Member
USA
973 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2011 : 5:28:51 PM
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The liner seals are real problem in the 'E' series engines. An updated seal is available.
Before the 'E' series, we never had any liner seal issues. Hopefully the EGR and Maxxforce engines all have this updated seal.
We are planning on tearing down a 530E in one of our trucks this summer and replacing the seals BEFORE it fails out on the road somewhere in the middle of the winter plowing snow. |
If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years. |
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member
533 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2011 : 6:17:03 PM
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| We have 6 2001 AmTran FEs and I've never been told about them having engine issues. As of February 2010, they ranged from 75k to 135k miles. Earlier this year, one of them had something done to them.... The transmission (AT-545) was shifting much smoother almost as if it had been replaced and it was shifting much more confidently, though the latter could be because of a huge increase in power that I noticed at the same time. Would a rebuild result in significant power increase? |
Edited by - 08 Thomas EF on 03/15/2011 6:18:01 PM |
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Mechan1c
Top Member
USA
853 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2011 : 6:43:36 PM
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"The liner seals are real problem in the 'E' series engines. An updated seal is available."
Eric,
On those 2003-05 vintage DT's would it be fair to say these failures can occur despite good water system maintenance? I have some fellow shop supervisors pulling their hair out and have been questioned about their cooling service intervals and practices.
Thanks, Tom. |
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member
533 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 3:01:26 PM
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| Tom, I can't say anything about that at all. I'm only a bus rider -- I don't drive or service, so I don't know complex things like those. What I said before was only based on the fact that I've never been told about engine problems with out DT466Es. It certainly could have happened, though. I probably should have said nothing... sorry about that! |
Edited by - 08 Thomas EF on 03/16/2011 3:02:01 PM |
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C.HARDY
Advanced Member
354 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 3:06:51 PM
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| You got to remember a school bus engine is worked a lot harder than a truck on the road. They are constantly starting and stopping and I would say 200,000 on a urban bus isnt bad. I havent been real good about servicing my coolant systems but havent had much trouble either. |
"Hardybusman" |
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Dillier23
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 3:57:19 PM
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| Hopefully we can get more opinions on the subject. So far it's been a learning experiance, keep the info coming guys, I appreciate it! |
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Mechan1c
Top Member
USA
853 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 6:57:07 PM
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"Tom, I can't say anything about that at all. I'm only a bus rider -- I don't drive or service, so I don't know complex things like those. What I said before was only based on the fact that I've never been told about engine problems with out DT466Es. It certainly could have happened, though. I probably should have said nothing... sorry about that!"
That's ok, I meant IBT Eric...I should have been specific, I assumed he was the only Eric in the topic... |
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IBTMech
Top Member
USA
973 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 7:25:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IBTMech
[quote]Originally posted by Mechan1c
"The liner seals are real problem in the 'E' series engines. An updated seal is available."
Eric,
On those 2003-05 vintage DT's would it be fair to say these failures can occur despite good water system maintenance? I have some fellow shop supervisors pulling their hair out and have been questioned about their cooling service intervals and practices.
Thanks, Tom.
From '02 on these units have come through with extended life coolant. A factor? I don't know. This year, two '04s have failed without any warning, both on long trips.
Our first failure was in a '97 3Box with standard coolant and annually tested and treated with SCA so that doesn't seem to be related. They all had the same liner seals.
ISIS has a TSI on replacing the liner seals with a new design. Without any apologies, of course. |
If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years. |
Edited by - IBTMech on 03/16/2011 7:34:28 PM |
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Spar
Active Member
20 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2011 : 2:25:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dillier23
Hello, first post here. I actually own a 2004 International 4400 with the DT466E engine. I have read numerous forums about this engine and have found the most info on this site. I have a couple questions to ask you guys. It seems like every DT466E from 2000-2007 has been a troublesome engine. From what I've read, most of them need rebuilt very early in life, say between 175,000-250,000 miles? is this the norm? I would assume that they should last much longer lives than that? Fill me in on what you guys have seen and let me know if I'm right on or completely off base. Thanks in advance!
In my experience the DT engines are among the best out there for medium duty trucks. Given the same maintenance they will out last and out perform similar engines.
Monitor and track your fluids, learn what to watch for and make sure you (or your driver) knows what they are doing. Get a good relationship with your local dealer - or the closest one you feel comfortable with. And use only approved fluids! It's no fun getting a phone call when the bus is 9+ hours away with a blown egr cooler, then the shop informs you that it's because of low or a mixed coolant.
Basically the problems I've seen have been due to a lack of information on maintenance rather than a poor engine design. |
It's a machine, not a werewolf. |
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Dillier23
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2011 : 6:58:43 PM
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| I finally got my truck back and was able to check everything out. Oil was nice and black, no gray. All was good except for coolant. Someone put the green crap in there and it looked like it was a mixture of red and green, it was a brown green color. No oil or fuel in it, so that was good. Changed it out and replaced it with Rotella ELC. Took and oil sample, so I'll have a good idea of whats going on when it gets back. Thanks everyone, I still want to hear everyones opinions on the original subject though. |
Edited by - Dillier23 on 03/18/2011 7:02:18 PM |
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IBTMech
Top Member
USA
973 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2011 : 2:41:31 PM
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Spar, believe me, I am a die hard DT466 fan. I have been working on them since the late 70's and I think they are still the best mid-range engine on the market, however, these 'E' series engines ('97-'04) have liner seal problems that are unprecendented. None of our older DTs and none of our post '04s have ever had any liner seal issues. We have an '81 fire truck with a DT still going strong..... never had the head or the pan off for anything.
The fact that they have posted an updated design is in itself an admission of a failed design. |
If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years. |
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Spar
Active Member
20 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2011 : 3:38:11 PM
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I know about the liner seals issue and update, but in my limited experience I've only seen one fail. And that was on an 03 530 that had some poor maintenance that led to overheating. I've seen more problems with the EGR coolers than the liners, but then again those were on trucks where the driver ran them low on coolant.
The updated seals imho comes from where engineering principles meet the real world. |
It's a machine, not a werewolf. |
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