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tigger2
Advanced Member
USA
470 Posts |
 Posted - 06/09/2010 : 06:04:14 AM
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| Do any of your schools bus fleet run the Maxx Force 7 engines. How do they hold up and what kinds of issues do you have with either bus or engine? |
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lonebustech
Senior Member
United States
79 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2010 : 06:09:33 AM
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So far they are trouble free. We have 5 in the fleet now 2 with 25000 miles, 2 with 11000 miles1 with 1500 miles, and no Eng related problems
This is a big change from the VT365 P.O.S. we have in 5 other that we cant kept out of the shop. |
22 Buses,18 support vehicles,Grounds equip, buffers and vacuums for 9 campuses. 1 Tech. and 2 bays ain't life grand |
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sambrutay
Advanced Member
United States
271 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2010 : 06:20:36 AM
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| Oil makers. We have 120 of them. No big problems, Of course putting 4 qts of fuel in the oil in 3000 to 4000 miles probably a big problem. I believe that may have cause a problem down the road. Lost more than a handful of Bendix Air compressors. (window in the side of the housing), doubtful that fuel in the oil hurt them. Just being sarcastic there. But overall it has been a good engine. |
Bruce |
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lonebustech
Senior Member
United States
79 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2010 : 06:37:06 AM
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samburtry: are you having those problems with the MAXFORCE7 engines?
I have not seen it yet in the MAXFORCE7 not saying it wont happen just have not seen it yet
NOW the VT365 were oil makers, injector problems every time I turn around air pumps (probably due to oil dilution ad of cores egr cooler |
22 Buses,18 support vehicles,Grounds equip, buffers and vacuums for 9 campuses. 1 Tech. and 2 bays ain't life grand |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2010 : 08:13:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sambrutay
Oil makers. We have 120 of them. No big problems, Of course putting 4 qts of fuel in the oil in 3000 to 4000 miles probably a big problem. I believe that may have cause a problem down the road. Lost more than a handful of Bendix Air compressors. (window in the side of the housing), doubtful that fuel in the oil hurt them. Just being sarcastic there. But overall it has been a good engine.
Do you nick name them BP?  LOL |
Bryan |
Edited by - bwest on 06/09/2010 08:14:03 AM |
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Spencer
Senior Member
United States
188 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2010 : 5:41:15 PM
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| My CE that I ride is a Maxx force 7, It has been great and has had no problems what so ever. Has 63,000 on it now. |
New School Bus Site:
www.schoolbuslover.smfnew.com/index.php |
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sambrutay
Advanced Member
United States
271 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2010 : 08:58:11 AM
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| Yes, MAXXFORCE 7 engines, we have worked with the engine group with these problems. We ran some test buses for them. after several calibration attempts they came out with a calibration they thought would fix the problem, and it has on several units. But I still have some that are putting fuel in the oil. Ofcourse when you have 120 of the same units you can expect to see patterns, and multiple problems. Don't get me started on the VT365. Got 188 of those boat anchors! |
Bruce |
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tigger2
Advanced Member
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2010 : 09:30:29 AM
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| My fleet of 65 is all inline 6 cylinder engines, dt 466 cat 3126 ,c7 and cummins isb. On our last bid this was the only eng that navistar had left, and they came in low bid. So I was wondering whether to fight for my 6 cylinders or not. With finances tight it may not be prudent to poke the bears. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2010 : 1:39:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tigger2
My fleet of 65 is all inline 6 cylinder engines, dt 466 cat 3126 ,c7 and cummins isb. On our last bid this was the only eng that navistar had left, and they came in low bid. So I was wondering whether to fight for my 6 cylinders or not. With finances tight it may not be prudent to poke the bears.
My two cents;
There are some advantages to the MaxxForce 7 over the DT. Among them are no valve lash adjustments, more room in the drivers area and its much quieter.
If I had to choose between a DT bus with hydraulic brakes or the MaxxForce 7 with air brakes I would not hesitate to take the air brake bus.
We have one Maxx 7 bus and one to be delivered any day now. In fact all our International conventionals save for one are V8s.
I wouldn't poke the bears.  |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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JustinB
Advanced Member
United States
490 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2010 : 1:53:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sambrutay
Yes, MAXXFORCE 7 engines, we have worked with the engine group with these problems. We ran some test buses for them. after several calibration attempts they came out with a calibration they thought would fix the problem, and it has on several units. But I still have some that are putting fuel in the oil. Ofcourse when you have 120 of the same units you can expect to see patterns, and multiple problems....
Would this mean that Authorized Field Change (AFC) #09909 solves the issue partially? Mostly? or Nearly completely?
Are some units continuing to produce oil due to other issues? |
I may not know the answer but I can usually find who does. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2010 : 06:33:35 AM
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| I hope the inline is better than the 365s we have. I have two '06s and I know they have given me more than one additional gray hairs. Under distress I am taking delivery, this summer, of two IC CEs with the inline engine (prior- '10 emmisions). The school board has decided they know more than I do when it comes to school buses so I am getting two more ICs!! I dislike the dealer (local not bus distributor) and do not like a multitude of engineering/ design aspects of the IC. I guess when you cut your bus teeth on BB it's hard to jump to an inferior product. (sorry to my on-line friends who like the other yellow) |
Bryan |
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IBTMech
Top Member
USA
973 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2010 : 4:06:21 PM
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I dunno bwest. I've dealt with BBs since the 70s and the ICs, though they have their issues, have been less of a problem for me in recent years than the IH/BB and IH/Thomas combos. Those old BBAAFEs were a horror show of engine and electrical issues.
We just ordered a '10 IC. Stay tuned.
BTW, all my buses are DT466s w/air brakes. The oldest have Thomas bodies, the middle have BBs and the newest are ICs. The ICs are performing very well so far. The Maxxforce DTs have had zero issues so far. Good dealer and product support and all the electrical diagnostics are available online to IC owners. |
If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years. |
Edited by - IBTMech on 06/12/2010 3:41:06 PM |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2010 : 06:28:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by IBTMech
I dunno bwest. I've dealt with BBs since the 70s and the ICs, though they have their issues, have been less of a problem for me in recent years than the IH/BB and IH/Thomas combos. Those old BBAAFEs were a horror show of engine and electrical issues.
We just ordered a '10 IC. Stay tuned.
BTW, all my buses are DT466s w/air brakes. The oldest have Thomas bodies, the middle have BBs and the newest are ICs. The ICs are performing very well so far. The Maxxforce DTs have had zero issues so far. Good dealer and product support and all the electrical diagnostics are available online to IC owners.
I don't have any All Americans just conventionals with the Chevy chassis (oops, not supose to say Chevy any more). Those things were bullet proof. I just worked on (at home) one of my old units that was sold to a church camp. It is a BB with Chevy chassis (oops did it again) and the Cat 3116 with AT545 behind, along with the 4 wheel hyd. discs. I just love this set up and I think we would be a lot better off had they continued to use this set up. Oh well time marches on. |
Bryan |
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sambrutay
Advanced Member
United States
271 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2010 : 08:58:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JustinB
quote:
Originally posted by sambrutay
Yes, MAXXFORCE 7 engines, we have worked with the engine group with these problems. We ran some test buses for them. after several calibration attempts they came out with a calibration they thought would fix the problem, and it has on several units. But I still have some that are putting fuel in the oil. Ofcourse when you have 120 of the same units you can expect to see patterns, and multiple problems....
Would this mean that Authorized Field Change (AFC) #09909 solves the issue partially? Mostly? or Nearly completely?
Are some units continuing to produce oil due to other issues?
Justin,
It has reduced the amount of fuel dilution, But has not cured the situation. Of the 48 MAX7's that we service at my shop, 28 had fuel in the oil issues. Some upwards of 6 qts over full. Of the 28 previously had the problem, 24 still exhibit fuel dilution. Some to a lesser degree.
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Bruce |
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JustinB
Advanced Member
United States
490 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2010 : 10:59:50 AM
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Hmmmm. Scratching my head a bit.
How much shorter have the oil drain intervals become to minimize the effects of this dillution? |
I may not know the answer but I can usually find who does. |
Edited by - JustinB on 06/14/2010 11:00:35 AM |
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sambrutay
Advanced Member
United States
271 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2010 : 07:48:12 AM
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| all of our V8's (the MAXX 7 AND the VT365) are at a 6000 mile oil change. We were on every 9000 miles. I have 1 bus that makes 4 to 8 qts evry 3000 to 4000 miles. Needless to say it is in the dealers hands as of today. This bus has exibited this problem for atleast the last year and a half. After 2 REPROGRAM ENGINE-CALIBRATION, 2 CONVERTER, CATALYTIC (DIESEL OXIDATION) & 1 MODULE, ELECTRONIC CONTROL (ECM) replacement, we are still making oil....... |
Bruce |
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lonebustech
Senior Member
United States
79 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2010 : 08:44:20 AM
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On your max force 7 how much idle time are they getting ?
I had the idle timer set for 5 min and am have no fuel dilution problems(knock on wood)
Long idle time my be part of the problems.
Ours oil is changed at 10,000 miles 30%of run time is local routes and 70% is field trips highway runes |
22 Buses,18 support vehicles,Grounds equip, buffers and vacuums for 9 campuses. 1 Tech. and 2 bays ain't life grand |
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sambrutay
Advanced Member
United States
271 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2010 : 08:51:06 AM
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| Well, we have a no idle policy. Take that for what its worth. Our buses are mostly inner city routes with minimal highway time. |
Bruce |
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lonebustech
Senior Member
United States
79 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2010 : 10:20:28 AM
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sambrutay Posted - 06/15/2010 : 08:51:06 AM
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Well, we have a no idle policy. Take that for what its worth. Our buses are mostly inner city routes with minimal highway time.
Yep we have one to and ever time I walked by a bus it was running, so I had the idle shut down timer turned on you never herd so many bus driver complain in you life.It was as bad as when I forced them all to use one dedicated fuel stop no exceptions last Sept. but since then no more injector failures could be a coincidences but I don't think so.
I think idling is part of the problems and poor quality fuel is also and yes very poor design is the majority of it. |
22 Buses,18 support vehicles,Grounds equip, buffers and vacuums for 9 campuses. 1 Tech. and 2 bays ain't life grand |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2010 : 10:42:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lonebustech
sambrutay Posted - 06/15/2010 : 08:51:06 AM
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Well, we have a no idle policy. Take that for what its worth. Our buses are mostly inner city routes with minimal highway time.
Yep we have one to and ever time I walked by a bus it was running, so I had the idle shut down timer turned on you never herd so many bus driver complain in you life.It was as bad as when I forced them all to use one dedicated fuel stop no exceptions last Sept. but since then no more injector failures could be a coincidences but I don't think so.
I think idling is part of the problems and poor quality fuel is also and yes very poor design is the majority of it.
Just got to thinking, our VT365s idle up after a few minutes ideling. I think it is about 1300-1400 rpm. Could this be non-funcional on the buses having injector problems? |
Bryan |
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jwreaume
Active Member
43 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2010 : 11:12:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bwest
quote:
Originally posted by lonebustech
sambrutay Posted - 06/15/2010 : 08:51:06 AM
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Well, we have a no idle policy. Take that for what its worth. Our buses are mostly inner city routes with minimal highway time.
Yep we have one to and ever time I walked by a bus it was running, so I had the idle shut down timer turned on you never herd so many bus driver complain in you life.It was as bad as when I forced them all to use one dedicated fuel stop no exceptions last Sept. but since then no more injector failures could be a coincidences but I don't think so.
I think idling is part of the problems and poor quality fuel is also and yes very poor design is the majority of it.
Just got to thinking, our VT365s idle up after a few minutes ideling. I think it is about 1300-1400 rpm. Could this be non-funcional on the buses having injector problems?
Nope. That is a function of the ECM to bring the engine to operating temperature as quickly as possible. Perfectly normal. |
17 years in the truck & bus world, 10 years at an IH Dealer, ASE Certified Master Medium & Heavy Truck Technician and Advanced Level Diesel Engine Diagnostic Specialist, IH Diamond Certified 5 Times, Instructor of Apprentice Techs in Engines, Fuels, Electrical & Electronics.
Ask anything, I likely will have the answer, or at least a believable lie for ya...
120 Units, 5 Bays, 5 Techs, Living the dream baby... |
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jwreaume
Active Member
43 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2010 : 11:15:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JustinB
quote:
Originally posted by sambrutay
Yes, MAXXFORCE 7 engines, we have worked with the engine group with these problems. We ran some test buses for them. after several calibration attempts they came out with a calibration they thought would fix the problem, and it has on several units. But I still have some that are putting fuel in the oil. Ofcourse when you have 120 of the same units you can expect to see patterns, and multiple problems....
Would this mean that Authorized Field Change (AFC) #09909 solves the issue partially? Mostly? or Nearly completely?
Are some units continuing to produce oil due to other issues?
Justin - AFC 09909 is an ECM reflash that changes several things, including injector timing and duration, so it does affect tyhis issue partially. Not a guarantee, but it does help in some circumstances. |
17 years in the truck & bus world, 10 years at an IH Dealer, ASE Certified Master Medium & Heavy Truck Technician and Advanced Level Diesel Engine Diagnostic Specialist, IH Diamond Certified 5 Times, Instructor of Apprentice Techs in Engines, Fuels, Electrical & Electronics.
Ask anything, I likely will have the answer, or at least a believable lie for ya...
120 Units, 5 Bays, 5 Techs, Living the dream baby... |
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JustinB
Advanced Member
United States
490 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2010 : 12:37:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jwreaume
Justin - AFC 09909 is an ECM reflash that changes several things, including injector timing and duration, so it does affect tyhis issue partially. Not a guarantee, but it does help in some circumstances.
Thanks.  Looks like I better have the ElDo Natl people-mover customers we serve keep an eye on this after the reflash. Just to be sure that the bulk issue is the programming. |
I may not know the answer but I can usually find who does. |
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jwreaume
Active Member
43 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2010 : 05:12:45 AM
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| We have just recently suffered a failure of the high pressure fuel pump that feeds the common rail system, however having spoken to the IH MaxxForce Engine Group, this appears to be anomaly. It was one of only a few failures they have seen. |
17 years in the truck & bus world, 10 years at an IH Dealer, ASE Certified Master Medium & Heavy Truck Technician and Advanced Level Diesel Engine Diagnostic Specialist, IH Diamond Certified 5 Times, Instructor of Apprentice Techs in Engines, Fuels, Electrical & Electronics.
Ask anything, I likely will have the answer, or at least a believable lie for ya...
120 Units, 5 Bays, 5 Techs, Living the dream baby... |
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Topic |
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Maxx Force 7
