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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
 Posted - 04/13/2009 : 10:08:51 PM
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Is your state using spray on mag chloride to treat roads in winter? NY went to this statewide a few years back, and boy what a difference it has made in the buses. Rust in places you've never seen before.
Anybody else experiencing issues? What have you done to combat it? |
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origcharger
Top Member
United States
619 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 03:05:15 AM
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The snow and ice removing chemicals they now put down in Iowa also seem to be causing more problems than ever for rust. Its made even worse IMO, because they spray this brine down on the roads before the predicted winter weather event which sometimes doesn't materialize or goes north or south.
What are we doing? Buying more replacement, entrance doors, emergency doors, rub rails, battery boxes, step wells, etc. 
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Operating; Seven T444Es, One MaxxForce 7, One VT365, Four DT466s, One E-450 6.0 and one Mercedes in a C2. |
Edited by - origcharger on 04/14/2009 03:08:00 AM |
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bcressey
Senior Member
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 5:01:40 PM
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We can see who is using magnesium when a bus comes in pretty easily. Much worse than even calcium. This stuff is NASTY. They have started using along coastal Maine. At the same time, we get a bus in from Northern NH or VT where it is just sand and salt, the same bus w/same mileage looks 1000% better.
quote:
Originally posted by origcharger
The snow and ice removing chemicals they now put down in Iowa also seem to be causing more problems than ever for rust. Its made even worse IMO, because they spray this brine down on the roads before the predicted winter weather event which sometimes doesn't materialize or goes north or south.
What are we doing? Buying more replacement, entrance doors, emergency doors, rub rails, battery boxes, step wells, etc.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 5:04:48 PM
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Our area switched to that crap back around 2003. We were warned by the county road crew garage and the local state highway garage that this was some nasty stuff and they weren't kidding.
Our 1991 Int/Thomas were hurt the fastest. The floor structural members around the rear wheels just turned into dust. Once that crap found its way into the insulated area of the bodies (as the Thomas all do) it was just over for the panels. We spend a lot of time, money and effort welding angle iron and box steel to the floor to get it back up to snuff. State partol was pleased, but it still was not a pleasent experience.
This year 2 1997 MVP-EF are being junked due to severe body deterioration.
A good rule is this: If you have surface rust, and Mag-Chlor touches it, you will have a hole there.
You cannot stop it, only delay it. Perfect timing with everyone in financial ruin isn't it? |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 5:16:11 PM
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I don't really see any advantage to this crap other than perhaps slightly more drivable roads. But besides destroying vehicles, it destroys the roads, even though these highway departments and manufacturers of the mag chloride says it does no harm.
Hopefully it will change eventually, but in the mean time the buses will continue to disintegrate. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 6:21:34 PM
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I've been wondering how the C2 floors are going to like this stuff. Unless they have changed them since I was at the factory in January 2005, they didn't utilize square tubing anymore, rather angle iron, so there wasn't all that open space for the stuff to get into and lay for extended periods. Also the undercoating used today is radically different than the stuff in the 80s and 90s. It's thinner yes, but it isn't as flexible and seems to be adhered well to the floors.
Time will tell I guess.
Rich or anybody, has anyone had and side panels off a C2 yet, particularly around the rear wheels? I'm really wanting to know how much water/chemical intrustion we are dealing with as opposed to the old bodies.
Also wanted to mention just how good this stuff is for brake chambers  |
Edited by - Thomasbus24 on 04/14/2009 6:26:33 PM |
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origcharger
Top Member
United States
619 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 6:59:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich
I don't really see any advantage to this crap other than perhaps slightly more drivable roads.
It seems that sometimes the ice melting stuff actually makes the roads worse by causing snow that would normally blow right across the too cold to melt it roadway to stick on the road surface. |
Operating; Seven T444Es, One MaxxForce 7, One VT365, Four DT466s, One E-450 6.0 and one Mercedes in a C2. |
Edited by - origcharger on 04/14/2009 7:00:26 PM |
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 05:01:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24
I've been wondering how the C2 floors are going to like this stuff. Unless they have changed them since I was at the factory in January 2005, they didn't utilize square tubing anymore, rather angle iron, so there wasn't all that open space for the stuff to get into and lay for extended periods. Also the undercoating used today is radically different than the stuff in the 80s and 90s. It's thinner yes, but it isn't as flexible and seems to be adhered well to the floors.
Time will tell I guess.
Rich or anybody, has anyone had and side panels off a C2 yet, particularly around the rear wheels? I'm really wanting to know how much water/chemical intrustion we are dealing with as opposed to the old bodies.
Also wanted to mention just how good this stuff is for brake chambers
Are you talking about the end channels where the floor meets the walls? Or the cross members? On my hometown's '06 C2s, the floor design looks a lot like Blue Bird's. No more areas to catch all the mud, at least for the cross members anyway. I don't remember about the end channels, I'd have to look at my pictures.
As for the undercoating, I don't know about its specifics, but it was faring far better on those C2s than the Blue Birds where I work. Very minimal specs of rust on the C2s, presumably started by rock chips. The Blue Birds on the other hand are entirely covered in surface rust in some areas. |
Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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bcressey
Senior Member
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 07:47:57 AM
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| We are definitely seeing less salt catching spots on the bottom of the C2s. One of the nice things they changed. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 2:32:40 PM
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I meant the pieces that run widthwise across the floor. They used to be boxed steel at the rear wheels that just got packed full of everything. Joints in the floor were either two boxes welded together or two angle irons or to C-channels welded back to back. All of these methods provided places for the steel-eater to rest for weeks on end.
I bet that is the same undercoating as our FS65's had. As you said, it seems to chip less. Seemed to have better adhesion as to prevent grime-catching gaps between the undercoating and the steel. |
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Dravo
Senior Member
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 6:38:06 PM
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| In states that use this stuff it may be worth giving a second undercoat with attention to problem areas. It's cheaper than replacing steel. |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 9:56:53 PM
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| Pickup truck bedliner works really well on a lot of problem spots, particularly on stepwells. Some districts here on new buses will remove the steptreads, spray on the bedliner material, then put the treads back on. Never a problem again. |
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Nick
Advanced Member
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 07:14:01 AM
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Why do people use this stuff? According to Wikipedia (I know, I know...) they say it's less harmful to plant life. So our buses and vehicles will all be rusted out heaps, but at least our grass will still be green... |
IC the future, and it is bright. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 1:00:37 PM
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| They use it because people have no sense whatsoever when it comes to driving in the winter. People can't seem to get the idea of leaving a little earlier when the roads are unpleasent. Instead they want to drive 100 MPH and don't understand why they slide off the road. |
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IBTMech
Top Member
USA
973 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 2:02:01 PM
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| Sea salt is mostly magnesium chloride. Just like parking your bus on the beach! |
If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years. |
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Brad Barker
Administrator
USA
874 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 7:24:36 PM
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| You have to get that stuff off at the end of the day if possible. We have been running in rock salt, calcium cloride and mag cloride and a mixture of utelite for many years. Our buses are required to run through a full surround rinse at the end of the day when it storms to reduce the damage caused by it. We were one of the driving forces behind stainless steel stepwells and 16 gauge treated sheet metal in our state. We still see rust but not as bad as before. Every thing under the bus has to be treated with a protective coating. Weep holes in the underbody are plugged with caulking before we put any bus into service. Any bare aluminum in the form of brake valves dissappears after a few years on our buses. We have to really stay on top of it. I wish they would just switch back to plowing and sanding the roads. It would be alot friendlier to the environment too. |
Brad A. Barker |
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IBTMech
Top Member
USA
973 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 6:22:46 PM
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Brad, I agree. But the Public won't allow it. They want and expect black roads.
I maintain all the Public Works salt trucks and you talk about corrosion disasters!
It's frustrating. |
If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years. |
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Brad Barker
Administrator
USA
874 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 8:28:24 PM
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| I understand completely IBTMech. Our district is in a resort town. If the tourists can't get around it really hurts our economy, so the state and county really dump the stuff on the roads. We even have sprinkler systems imbedded in the road which spray liquid mag if the temp drops to near freezing. |
Brad A. Barker |
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Magnesium Chloride
