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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
 Posted - 12/09/2006 : 8:00:07 PM
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I was talking to my friend the other day about the issue of the "EPA" (Environmental Protection Agency) or some would say- Environmental police- and they are after school bus drivers again.
This is what I don't understand and I don't think workers for the EPA understand: (@ least in MASS)
My friend's bus is an IC-CE 2005+ (the one with the electric door, buttons on the steering wheel, etc), owned by Laidlaw, has problems starting in the morning (cold weather start up issues)- Takes about 20-25 minutes to start. For whatever reason, Laidlaw can not seem to fix it - must be under warranty -
There is no engine warmer plug (not spec'd with one)
If it takes about 20 minutes to get the bus started, why should the bus have to be shut down after 5 minutes- shouldn't it be allowed to run for more than 5 minutes to warm up- and defrost, or are we supposed to just drive it with frosted windows.
I'd say- just put it in reverse and forward every five minutes (it's not an idle bus- it's moving if you move it back and forth a few times)
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Edited by - 80-RE4 on 12/09/2006 8:02:02 PM
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 8:34:13 PM
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Here in NY, and in many other states with idle bans, there is a clause written in that allows idling in certain temperatures, normally below 32 degrees. Some states also have it set up so that idling is allowed in the mornings before routes begin.
I'd be surprised if Massachusetts doesn't have a temperature exemption built into their anti-idling law. Considering that MA gets bad winters, there certainly should be an exemption built in! |
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IC
Top Member
USA
3413 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 8:44:53 PM
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Is this another "idling" topic? Like I guess just about everywhere.....you ain't supposed to do it....ESPECIALLY for A/C.
I have 2 responses to the "EPA police"...especially if the complaint comes from a citizen (they WILL pull over to give you **** about it!):
1) I'm SO sorry, I must have lost my head....and shut down the engine immediately.
2) Sorry ma'am, it has a bad starter and I was instructed to NOT shut it off until I get it to the garage.
PS: I don't think you can "spec" a motor without glow plugs, can you?
Is your CE driver plugging the bus up? Is the block heater operational?
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Edited by - IC on 12/09/2006 8:46:27 PM |
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CPCSC_TD
Top Member
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 06:11:18 AM
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The EPA is understanding if the bus has mechanical issues and the oeprator can proove they have plans to repair the unit.
When our temps drop below 20, we run them for no more than 10-minutes after the pre-trip. That is sufficient. Some we plug in and some we do not.
Once it is below 20, they sound as though they don't want to turn over. They all do as long as you keep the key turned after the plug lights have diminished.
Some driver's claim they need to run longer to get the bus warm prior to leaving. We explain the purpose to idle them is not for heat yet to get the fluids at operational point.
We remind them they will get heat once on the road. |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 06:47:55 AM
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They EPA sent out warnings to Laidlaw saying that they will be watching the buses. The buses are not to be idling for more than 5 minutes under any circumstances, unless needed for a wheel chair lift- I know it's a Federal Agency, but maybe they vary state by state. You know, they have power because they carry guns (ha ha)- but maybe they want to show their power even more, or even make =headline news= by showing how much school bus drivers lack responsibility.
Many bus drivers are not happy about this. I know, there ought to be some provisions saying that the buses can idle in cold weather, but I guess they are becoming more strict. 5 minutes is the max even in cold weather.
The EPA is not so understanding and they let the power go to their head (in my opinion).
IC- the bus has glow plugs, Laidlaw just didn't spec them with block heaters (the plugs to plug them in) for some reason.
I wish we could say those things to the EPA around here but they are rude and ignorant. |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 09:10:35 AM
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In CT, the law is maximum 3 minute idling, only applicable in school zones. Exceptions for when the temperature is below I believe 20 degrees, or if special needs equipment requires idling.
Just the other night, I did a charter and it was extremely cold out....I had to sit in the bus in front of a school for about 45 minutes waiting for the basketball team. To maintain decent heat in the bus, about every 10 minutes I started up, ran at high idle for 3 minutes, then shut down. It worked pretty well, and the bus stayed at a relatively comfortable temperature inside. If anyone complains about me doing this, I'll say that the state law allows for 3 minutes of idling.
The yard I work at starts the buses about half an hour before drivers come in for pre-trips, and keeps them running until we leave for our routes. Once warmed up, any time the bus parks we have to shut down. When waiting at the school to load or unload, we always shut down, even if we know we're moving the bus in 2 minutes. |
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ICfan
Top Member
USA
1251 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 3:39:54 PM
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| bus724 the under 20 degrees is right and I thought it was 5 minutes? maybe they changed it, but to Laidlaw, all I have to say is this: TOO BAD! |
Tyler Roys Weatherman and International Fan,
http://www.freewebs.com/thectschoolbusyard |
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 4:21:51 PM
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ICfan - the anti-idle law varies from state to state. MA is 5 minutes, CT is 3 minutes. I had a trip Saturday night and did the same as Bus724 - I routinely started my bus and let it warm up for a good 5 minutes on fast idle, then shut it down.
Also similar to bus724, many of our drivers start their bus anywhere between 15-30 minutes in the morning while the bus is parked in the yard to let it warm up. I think a half hour is overkill and a waste of fuel. 10 minutes seems more than adequate to me. |
- Ryan |
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EPA at it again
