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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
 Posted - 09/16/2011 : 4:05:04 PM
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School Bus Safety is Stuck in Idle
By Ben Kelley
September 14, 2011
Fair Warning - News of safety, health and corporate conduct
Children typically get an earful if they neglect to put on their seat belts. But many kids who ride a school bus can’t buckle up even if they want to. And that situation isn’t going to change anytime soon.
That’s because the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration recently rejected a petition filed by safety and medical groups to require safety belts on school buses. The decision came in time for National Child Safety Week (Sept. 18-24), when NHTSA will stress the need for kids to buckle up.
The denial, though, has sent a very different and troubling message to school-age kids: Maybe belts aren’t really all that important.
NHTSA seems to think that while safety belts are essential in all other vehicles, in school buses a mandate is untenable. Requiring belts would increase costs sufficiently to force reductions in bus capacity and thus divert pupils to less safe forms of transportation – or so the agency speculates. It wants to leave the decision to local authorities, saying a national standard would “not be appropriate.” ...
Click here for story.
One school district's experience.
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Edited by - JK on 09/18/2011 10:01:11 PM
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2011 : 4:23:09 PM
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NHTSA Responds to article
Response from NHTSA
September 15, 2011 at 2:56 pm | Permalink
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is committed to ensuring the safety of drivers and passengers of all ages. When it comes to children in particular, NHTSA is continually evaluating the ways we transport our youngest and most vulnerable citizens to make sure we get them from place to place in the safest ways possible.
Large school buses are already one of the safest forms of transportation available. Riding in a large school bus is significantly safer than walking, riding a bicycle, or being driven to school in a car. The special design of large school buses – which involves the compartmentalization of passengers who are divided by tall and flexible seat backs that cushion them in the event of a crash – means children are kept safer than they would be in any other type of vehicle. With their long crash pulse which absorbs more impact in a crash, large school buses are even more safe than small school buses. This difference is one reason NHTSA requires seat belts on small school buses and not on their larger counterparts.
While mandating seat belts on large buses could save a number of lives annually, the costs would likely outweigh the benefits. In fact, NHTSA’s analysis of the impact of such a regulation found that deaths and injuries could actually rise as school districts managing the higher costs of buses equipped with seat belts decided to provide fewer buses – and students and families were left with other, less safe forms of transportation, such as a bike or passenger car.
Ultimately, child passenger safety remains a top priority for NHTSA. As we work to keep our children safe on our roadways, it’s critical that we do not unintentionally put them at risk by reducing the use of large school buses overall.
Source: Permalink
Personal Note: Sure seems like NHTSA has more lawyers than engineers talking to the press. Myself find the TRB and the NTSB more credible than the NHTSA. Just can't go for the double-speak that comes from NHTSA. The issue at NHTSA is that seat belts on school buses is too costly, no mater how NHTSA experts paint it...Money, Money, Money is the bottom line promoted when backed in to a corner.
A federal mandate is fast becoming nothing more than a housekeeping mandate to acknowledge a new school bus standard. School districts across the country in not mandated states are giving extra attention to installing belts on their school buses. Story after story is showing up in the press from districts in not mandated states installing the devices on their school buses. The educational 'buckle-up' philosophy is one of the major issues trigging installation on school buses. No Belts - No education. (jk)
Buses buckle up for safety
"Many school corporations across the state are purchasing buses with seat belts" -- Tim Fosbrink was leery when manufacturers first started installing seat belts in school buses. Although he knew the devices worked in personal cars, he wasn’t sold on the idea for Seymour Community Schools’ bus fleet. Click here for story. |
Edited by - JK on 09/19/2011 07:49:26 AM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2011 : 4:53:14 PM
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Sent to 2safeschools - (Reposted by permission.)
An excellent and well-written commentary on the NHTSA's rejection of the recent petition filed by safety and medical groups. Several key points include:
For more than 10 years the National Transportation Safety Board – the national authority on transportation safety – has been urging NHTSA to adopt a federal requirement for seat belts on all sized buses.
Granting the petition would not have forced NHTSA to adopt a regulation, but merely to hear arguments, pro and con, from school districts, parents, health and safety advocates, or anyone else with an interest in the issue. By denying it, the agency has effectively shut its ears to those voices.
NHTSA seems to be low-balling number of fatalities and injuries compared to those reported by the American Academy of Pediatrics.NHTSA says it doesn't use cost-benefit analysis to consider proposed regulations, but its response to this petition specifically states cost issues.States that have implemented seat belt regulations have NOT experienced reduced capacity on buses, an argument also proposed by NHTSA as reason for rejection. New belt and seat designs have increase capacity.California experienced higher usage of buses by parents who previously drove their children to school because there were no seat belts. NHTSA states that other modes of transport to and from school are less safe, so by providing seat belts California has successfully moved more children onto a safer mode.US lags Europe on this issue.
Source: Ruth Spaulding, former resident of New Jersey where state law requires that all school buses have safety restraints.
JK Note: Seat belts have proven to "do more good than harm," the actual quote from a report that is often misquoted in the press as, "may do more harm than good."
In 2000 I began to study this issue and eventually changed my personal position from dead against seat belts on the big school buses to supporting these safety devices factory installed on new bus purchases. Myself have no issue with 2-point lap belts (behind the scenes the most popular version installed on school buses where 3-points are not mandated). 3-point, even FlexSeats where wanted is also fine with me.
In the early 2000’s was blasted in this forum several times by angry bus drivers and a few managers against seat belts - not so much these days as these safety devices are proving very useful in a variety of ways, including reducing liability issues after installed. The so-called seat belt exempt protection is virtually nonexistent as a defense in most if not all states these days.
Very simple rule here: No seat belts - Do not crash that bus! (jk)
Seat Belts on School Buses -- Another District's Experience
Click Here for Video Report |
Edited by - JK on 09/18/2011 2:42:02 PM |
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member
533 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2011 : 7:26:35 PM
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Here's a suggestion: Start some sort of group advocating seat belts on buses in your area, raise the hundreds of thousands of dollars it would take to retrofit them (fleet size depending of course) and let us know how many happy, appreciative children there are. You make it sound like kids are mortified and disappointed that buses don't have belts -- they don't care, in fact, in my observations, they're glad.
Yes, cars, trucks, etc. need belts, and I wear mine religiously in the car. But if faced with a belt on a school bus, it'd stay loose on the seat.
Of course, once the belts actually go on the buses and kids start riding the bus with them and using them from day one, they won't care, they'll put them on automatically without thinking about it. So the first generation will probably not wear them, eventually it'l become the norm as it has with cars. And once it does, the kids riding the bus will be good little angels, never standing up or facing backwards, strapped in to their already impeccably safe seating area. *Gack*
Perhaps deaths will stay the same because they will save a couple in rollovers, but some might get strangled, or not get out of the bus in time, depending on the situation. All I know is that it's going to be damn hard to reduce the number of in-bus deaths to less than the 6-per-year it is now. I literally think this is an impossible feat. Accidents will always happen, and someone's luck will run out occasionally.
I've seen pictures of rear-engined buses having hit a tree or pole or whatever head-on, and there's a lot of intrusion into the passenger compartment. Belts could not prevent someone from getting squished between the seats. Same with side collisions, rear collisions.... I only think of seat belts being beneficial in a rollover or on a large slope where the kid is thrown outside of their "compartment". And even now with the high-back seats, the possibility of this happening has been reduced, theoretically.
What about padding the entire ceiling of the bus in case of rollover? Cheaper, perhaps? It would dampen noise, anyway.  |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2011 : 9:45:47 PM
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Interesting theories. So, how did so many schools in both mandated and not mandated states solve all these horrific outcomes? One answer was not to try to retrofit old buses, a strategy I agree with.
The better question may be how did so many districts in both mandated and not mandated states solve all these horrific issues pointed out in detail? Actually, did these horrific events actually happen to the extremes some promote? And let's not forget how Greyhound fought seat belts on their buses, but now boast:
"The new Greyhound has been redesigned to ensure the safest ride for our passengers, from large adults to small infants. We've voluntarily equipped each seat with a comfortable three-point safety harness with shoulder-height adjusters. Plus, our new LATCH system can fasten your child's car seat as easily and securely to your seat as you can in your own car." ~ Greyhound Website."
Greyhound is owned by First Group, the same organization that owns First Student school buses.
Parent safety groups, auto safety and medical associations, and the increasing liability issues are getting done what NHTSA has repeatedly failed to do. Myself, not demanding a federal law until done as a housekeeping rule for a new school bus safety standard. Would simply like the value of seat belts on school buses acknowledged from government/industry interests and their lobbyists, starting with the correct quote: "Seat belts do more good than harm," and to help encourage giving parents in their communities the option to vote for or against belts on new school bus purchases.
Hundreds of school districts in not mandated states have covered their riders with at least lap belts installed on their school buses. The reasons for installation go beyond fewer horrific injuries and the increasing liability when not installed to include, preventing ejection’s during a crash where installed and used, improved rider behavior, reducing injuries during the normal operation of the school bus, reducing bus driver distraction, and educating children to buckle-up no mater what vehicle they are riding in.
Drivers of school buses not equipped with seat belts must necessarily heed this warning: No Belts Installed -- Do Not Crash That Bus! (jk)
Seat Belts for School Buses - The New Jersey Experience- Click here for story. |
Edited by - JK on 09/19/2011 06:24:16 AM |
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member
533 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2011 : 2:36:48 PM
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Motorcoaches? That's a very different ballgame as far as I'm concerned. I don't know a whole lot about motorcoaches, but judging from looking at the typical seating setup in one, I do agree with seat belts in motorcoaches. The seatbacks in the coaches are curvy and hard (from what I remember of a Van Hool C2045, maybe they're not all like that) and clearly not designed with accidents in mind. I actually did feel awkward riding in the motorcoach seats without belts, due to the very different sitting posture and what was in front of me to impact. Not very fun to think about.
School bus seats, however, ARE designed for impact and are proven safe.
Here's a read on motorcoach fatalities. Compare those numbers with school bus fatalities -- unless the crash circumstances are dramatically different (or the number of school buses vs. motorcoaches is different, which I don't know), it appears as though school buses have a superior safety record.
http://tucsoncitizen.com/usa-today-news/2011/06/28/government-undercounts-bus-crash-fatalities/ |
Edited by - 08 Thomas EF on 09/19/2011 2:39:01 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2011 : 3:37:40 PM
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Yes, motorcoaches, such as Greyhound and other tour-type buses are not as safe as school buses but motorcoach providers claim remain a safe passenger transport without the belts. Read Greyhound's own comments on their website and press stories concerning their buses that are not yet equipped with belts.
Excerpt from Metro Magazine story where Greyhound spokeswoman Abby Wambaugh adds that, "the older seats also feature compartmentalization, but the latest seats have the additional feature of the seat belts."
Greyhound does not seem to be retrofitting their old buses, a strategy I agree with.
Motorcoach providers defended no belts using and sometimes stretching school bus safety similarities. Are motorcoaches really the safest mode for travelers in any other mode of transportation?
Statistically all buses are safer than cars. Airport shuttles used within the airport often transport 24/7 and experience the fewest rider deaths in our country. (jk)
Sound familiar? - "The charter-bus industry says that bus travel is extremely safe, especially when the number of people traveling by bus -- 631 million passengers a year -- is factored in. The American Bus Association uses a figure to show that motorcoach passengers are much safer than travelers in any other mode of transportation, although critics say that claim is grossly inflated. Industry managers and spokesmen in fact applaud the slow pace of safety regulation, saying a cautious approach will lead to sound, scientifically backed regulations if warranted, rather than feel-good measures that do little to keep passengers safe." Click here for story.
Free images for your newsletters, letters, memos and training materials
Click here to view and copy free images. - Updated July 05, 2011
Other free resources at this forum link: Click Here for Link |
Edited by - JK on 09/19/2011 3:47:49 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2011 : 2:06:01 PM
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From: Legal focus
National Student Transportation Association
National School Transportation Association
www.yellowbuses.org
... Denial of Federal Seatbelt Requirement – In March of 2010, a group of 22 trade organizations and individuals petitioned the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) for a rule requiring the installation of three-point seatbelts for all seating positions on all school buses. In the fifteen months that followed the NSTA marshaled forces in opposition of this petition. Various studies have shown that it is the structure of bus seats, not the use of seat belts that provide children more security in times of a school bus collision (see, National High-way Traffic Safety Administration, Report to Congress—School Bus Safety: Crashworthiness Research, April 2002). On August 25, 2011 the NHTSA announced a denial of the petition for rulemaking. The petition was denied on the grounds that there has been no finding of a safety problem supporting a Federal requirement for lap/shoulder belts on school buses. The NHTSA was also convinced that the cost and consequences would exceed the benefit. The NSTA was instrumental in this result. ...
Click here to read more.
Crash victim describes flying out window of bus
Click here for story.
Facebook.
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Edited by - JK on 09/27/2011 9:37:33 PM |
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Mr. Dave
Senior Member
United States
120 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2011 : 09:24:47 AM
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| All of our school buses have seat belts, but they are worse than useless. The seatbelts were nonretracting and manualy tentioning belts (as in autos from the 60s). Drivers had no support if they tried to get the kids to use them. In the end drivers considered them a nussance at best. potetial weapons at worst. There must be a program to force belt useage if any good is to come from this. I am however totally supportive of seat belts on schoolbuses. |
Shiny side up
Greasy side down |
Edited by - Mr. Dave on 10/01/2011 09:34:37 AM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2011 : 5:01:38 PM
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Dave, Agree with you 100-percent and more. Use not enforced with any safety device can make that device a safety hazard. The device becomes a political device, not a safety device. And where there is no support to enforce use, then those kids receive a double-negative education concerning buckling up in any vehicle they ride. Don't be deceived by policy claims and trainers that claim use is voluntary. Check your state law, most likely the statue clearly states required use, and goes so far as to protect schools and staff (including bus drivers) from liability when the child refused to buckle or chose to unbuckle without permission at some point in route.
Seat Belts for School Buses - The New Jersey Experience
Click here for story.
Free images for your newsletters, letters, memos and training materials
Click here to view and copy free images. - Updated July 05, 2011
Other free resources at this forum link: Click Here for Link
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NHTSA Called on carpet...
