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generouse
New Member
USA
1 Posts |
 Posted - 04/17/2004 : 6:01:27 PM
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the lawer for our school told us that we have to break-up fights that are off the bus .
I think that this is very dangerouse for anyone let alone small ladies
what are some policies about this and does anyone know of any self defence classes for drivers.
my concern is that if someone is hurt they will not be able to be covered by our workers comp.
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CountGirl
Top Member
USA
823 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 6:16:53 PM
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Around here, what happens on school grounds is the school's problem, and what happens on the bus is the busdriver's problem. [Sorry to be so blunt.] We once had a dispute that two elem. kids fought next to the wheel well of a conventional school bus on the school sidewalk. The school counselor (a real idiot) screamed that it was the driver's problem and the kids had to be written up before school admin. (which included the counselor) would deal with it. The busdriver screamed no and told them that the kids fought on school property. This woke a whole sheebang, and it ended up being decided they would dicipline the children from the school level, tell them fighting was not acceptable (basically what some would call a 'slap on the wrist') and send them on their merry little ways. I don't believe the children fought again so it worked out okay (I know there was a lot of carrying on on the homefront of the one child, both to understand the story that the counselor did not do it as procedure, and the fact that the 'favorite driver' of the child might have to write them up) and I think there was some guilt involved that reminded the children not to fight.
My advice: Don't let your T/D pressure you into breaking up fights, there's got to be some clause in some law. Plus worker's comp not covering and I doubt they wish to get into a dispute over that.
Hope this helps.
Countgirl |
Give me a yellow object. Yes. Right now. I need my yellow chocolate, for goodness sake! |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 7:32:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by generous
the lawyer for our school told us that we have to break-up fights that are off the bus.
I would suggest the bus drivers call that lawyer's bluff. There is no law requiring school staff to break up fights. The opposite is true - no person, not properly trained and practiced should ever attempt to break up a fight. Very dangerous to attempt to do so and a good guess it is a violation of worker safety to attempt requiring such an action. The requirement is to report the fight to authorities with the expertize to break up fights, such as police. (jk)
Click Here to find out The #1 reason school bus drivers quit |
Edited by - JK on 04/17/2004 7:34:52 PM |
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LJ
Senior Member
85 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2004 : 11:19:27 AM
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| When I drove, we were not allowed to get in the middle of fights, just to write the kids up and separate them. This was for our safety. I would not get in the middle of it anyway. These days, you even touch a kid, you can end up as a lawsuit waiting to happen. I once just touched a kid on the arm to get his attention to get back in his seat before we pulled away. He actually slapped me back on my arm and accused me of hitting him. That was a situation where my side was taken and he was suspended off the bus. We don't want to take chances. It hurts us to see kids fight, but the driver can end up with an injury as well and then in trouble for touching the kids. |
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coolbusdriver
Top Member
Canada
1509 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2004 : 6:55:52 PM
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If there is a fight on the bus we are to call for help right away. We are to move the rest of the kids out of harms way if possible.
Any fight on school property is the schools responsiblity, not the school bus drivers.
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Frankenbus
Active Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2004 : 7:40:08 PM
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I am a Foster Parent (in addition to being a bus driver) and there was a famous legal case (unfortunately I can't remember who vs who) that related directly to this.
The Foster Parent in question attempted to restrain an out-of-control child and in so doing inflicted some sort of injury on the child (probably not serious but you know how lawyers are).
At any rate, the biological family of the Foster Child sued the Foster Parents and the Foster Agency claiming that the Foster Parents had not been trained in the proper methods of restraining a juvenile and thus were responsible for the injuries inflicted.
They won in court which - to them - was probably like hitting the Lottery.
The similarities to breaking up a fight - on or off the bus - are obvious.
If we restrain a child and he/she is injured and we have not received training on how to properly restrain him or her, I think we are obviously legally liable. And in this day and age this could mean millions.
It really surprises me that School Districts don't either 1) provide training on how to "break up a fight" or "restrain a child" or 2) provide a clear guideline that you are not - under any circumstances -to so much as touch a child.
I'm kind of a big guy - students generally don't challenge me. If they do though there is no way in the world that I would touch one of them. I would bite my tongue, clench my teeth and start filling out the appropriate paperwork (after screaming loudly at them, of course).
If a fight broke out on my bus (kind of unlikely since I am now driving a special needs bus) I would probably instinctively try to separate the participants but - in view of the lack of direction from the school district - I think I would be doing so at my own risk. |
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mlkdrives41
Top Member
USA
2055 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2004 : 7:52:13 PM
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| So very true Frankenbus. |
Nothing great has ever been accomplished without enthusiasm! |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2004 : 10:00:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Frankenbus
If a fight broke out on my bus (kind of unlikely since I am now driving a special needs bus) I would probably instinctively try to separate the participants but - in view of the lack of direction from the school district - I think I would be doing so at my own risk.
Most likely the case and a well presented post. In this thread the drivers are being ordered to break up fights - and apparently without the training, practice and certification to so without injury to self or students. Under these circumstances it is likely the district would be held financially responsible for any injuries to a student and the driver, plus punitive damages. It's such a stupid demand can't see the district escaping punitive damages. (jk)
Click Here to find out The #1 reason some school buses are violent places |
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dvd316
Active Member
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 11:08:39 PM
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| When fights have started off the bus, after I dropped the kids off in their neighborhood, I simply call it in and the school takes care of it. I have always heard the school is responsible for the kiddies until they get to their front door. |
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LJ
Senior Member
85 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2004 : 06:48:12 AM
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| That is correct. When my child was in school, as far as I am concerned, teh school was responsible for her the minute she stepped off the porch till she got back to the front door after school. And I held them accountable to the fact. |
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CrazyBusDriver78
Senior Member
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2004 : 08:25:40 AM
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| They don't pay me enough to break up fights, i'll the the police come get them or a supervisier. |
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Sherm
Top Member
USA
621 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2004 : 08:46:14 AM
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If there is a fight off the bus in that district, I'd call the lawyer and have him come break it up! :)
Seriously, though; if a fight occurs off the bus, the driver calls it in and we call the police. It is not the driver's responsibility to leave the vehicle and other children unattended to go break up a fight. The driver's responsibility is the safety of the children ON the bus and in the loading zone around the bus. |
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busdriver1115
Senior Member
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2004 : 7:51:35 PM
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| We are not permitted to seperate children who are fighting due to the legal matters and we radio for assistance! Of course you get the what do you have routine!!!!!! If there is a fight off the bus we radio and security goes to the location usually it is gone but they go! If it is a problem bus the security usually follows you or are very close by! |
THIS IS MY SECOND YEAR AS DRIVER TRAINER |
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ModMech
Top Member
USA
948 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 08:54:28 AM
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I don't like blanket statements, life is not black and white like that.
We had a situation a few years back. Three or four boys were pounding on a single smaller boy right outside the bus in full view of the school staff mambers (2 or 3 of them). Our driver watched in horror as the smaller boy was beaten for a bout 30 seconds and no one came to his aid. Our driver immobilized the bus, made it "safe" and proceeded to assist the smaller boy by peeling the older kids off. The staff still did nothing. He attempted to escort the offending pupils into the school, but they pulled away and ran off.
Our driver was repremanded for his actions, and I witnessed them as I was subbing that day. I immediately came to his defense and here is my arguement:
1) It was many larger against one smaller
2) Staff was doing nothing, eventhough I could see them watching.
3) Who would have been "at fault" for not helping if this child had been severely injured? Both the staff AND any other "adult" who did not attempt to secure help.
4) The driver called in, asking dispatch to summon help, dispatch laughed him off and told him to "let them settle it". (I heard the entire conversation)
5) The dispatcher was VERY angry at the driver, until I asked if he would feel the same way if it had been HIS child (daughter in particular) who was being assulted. Then the dispatcher got REALLY mad, because he realized that what is rightfor one, is right for everyone.
In the end, it's a judgement call. Will not doing anything lead to irreprible damage or injury? Can you get help? Is it a spat, or might it get ugly? Are you capeable of: living with not acting, and someone getting a severe injury or dying?
I tend to act, because I would want another responsible adult to act if it were my child (either giving OR recieving), and to take appropriate action. |
If you want customer service, you NEED an International! |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 09:57:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ModMech
I don't like blanket statements, life is not black and white like that.
Yes, of course, there are situations or circumstances when any adult, including a bus driver, might intervene. There is no law requiring anyone but law enforcement to intervene, only to immediately report it to police. Your comment, "dispatch laughed him off and told him to "let them settle it," was a direct violation of the law concerning this issue in I would believe every state in this country. Regardless, without a policy to back up the action, every aspect of the event becomes a high-risk event. The driver you mentioned decided the risk was manageable and it appears it worked out that way. Had the driver injured one of the students that might have to be accounted for in court. On the flip-side, had the driver gotten injured, the school could claim the action was voluntary on the driver's part and not within policy. You would likely be stuck with any medical bills. My response would have been to alert dispatch, then have one of the student's on the bus lay on the horn. Several kids on the bus have mini .jpg cameras - I would ask those kids to take pictures of the staff, the fight and the intervention. When securing and leaving the bus, my effort would be to yell at the teachers to help and proceed to deal with the individual attackers, but probably avoid touching them unless they were small enough to do so without injury to the student or myself. No matter what the situation it should be considered unwise to just dive into a pile of fighting kids to try to end the fight. Call police immediately and keep your kids and yourself safe would be my first thoughts. (jk)
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breaking up fights off the bus
