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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
 Posted - 08/11/2001 : 11:41:59 AM
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How long do you feel a bus conventional/transit should be kept in service? I know that some states have limits, and after the discussion about Crowns/Gilligs those are being used well after 20 years of service.
I feel that a bus should not be used after 20 years of service, unless it is rebuilt. New safety features are comming out all of the time, and the older buses just don't have them. Safety Standards are constantly changing and older buses just don't meet the standards that are required. After a bus is in service for 20 years it has been through quite a bit, and is wore out. I have heard of really old Crowns/Gilligs being used, older than 77, sure the bodys have held up, but a lot of things were changed in 77, especially compartmentalization and that is what is protecting the passengers.
If a bus body is rebuilt and meets the current bus standards than I say let it go another 20 years, or until the engine dies.
86-A It will go in circles around your bus.
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2001 : 1:07:16 PM
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thomas86_a,
Ours standards are 12 years for the conventional buses and 14 years for the transits buese. I think that is a good standards for the buses.
I would say that all states school buses should not be older than 15 years old. I think it is carzy to have buses that is 25 or 30 years old. That bus should not be on the road. To me that is unsafe for the students and drivers.
Good Day Yall!
Thomas International 265
Thomas Freightliner 447 |
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Thomas2000
Active Member
39 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2001 : 2:35:28 PM
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For me i dont think age really has anything to do with it, as long as the buses are properly maintained. The Crowns here in CA hold up extremely well. I mean most of the 1980's crowns ive been in look really good. High back seats hold up nice, floors are in good shape i mean the only thing they dont have is the extra Emergency exits and reflective tape and of course ambers. Gilligs on the other hand...all the ones ive seen for a unified school are rusted and look really horrible on the inside too. I guess its how theyre taken care of though. Im not real fond of new buses though...they dont last like the old crowns did. After 7 years the Thomas and blue birds look tore up. LOL not to mention Am Tran....they look tore up after 1 year. Im blabbing on i guess, so to sum it up i think the older buses are more reliable..less computer stuff on em...our new buses always break down while the older ones dont...so just restore older buses, paint em, redo the seats and send em back out.
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2001 : 2:59:11 PM
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I live in the state of MA. So we get a variety of weather and drastic climate changes. So our buses do go through alot through the course of one year (not to mention the kids that ride the bus and don't respect it).
I think the age of a conventional (type C)school bus should be 14 years old before it is retired, and for a transit-style (type D) school bus, I think it should be 16 years old before it retires. So somewhere around a 15 year lifespan of a school bus sounds about right...for the MAXIMUM amount of time for them to be used before they retire.
I would much rather prefer the buses to be retired by the time they are 10 or 12 years old, and absolutely not more than 16 years old. Just think...the bus would have spent 16 school years with different kids each year, 16 brutal winters, and 16 brutal summers. If a bus lasts that long, it has to be a good bus.
Those of you from MA: correct me if I am wrong, but I think I heard that a school bus here in this state cannot be used for more than 10 or 12 years. It must be retired by then. 10 or 12 years is the maximum amount of time to run a regular route school bus. However, I have seen older ones used in some districts, and they still are running well. Maybe this is a district by district decision, and not a state decision 
Bob
(B. Busguy33) |
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2001 : 3:56:25 PM
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I think age has nothing to do with it. If a school bus can last as long as the Gillig or Crown, then I'd say go for it.
I'd agree with the points about safety modifications, but usually, age has nothing to do with it
"Gillig Buses - The BEST NEVER REST!!" |
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BlueBird44
Top Member
USA
1639 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2001 : 4:36:48 PM
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I'll say if they should not stay on a regular route more than 12 years.But keep them as spare till about 20. I new features come out they should update those important features on thouse older buses.
BlueBird44- Dedicated to 89 TC2000's Bus #44 out of service for the 2nd year still my FAVORITE! |
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Carpenter Bus_19
Advanced Member
USA
286 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2001 : 07:39:07 AM
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In our District the age limit is 10 years for all buses (for regular Route and trip buses) but for spares it can be 15-16 or 17 years old the oldest spare we have is a 85 international Conv.. Wayne... (says it all thats why its still around) but i think 10 years is a good age after 10 years it costs more to maintain it. when you have a newer bus there are still some warrantites left.
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AmTranIntFE01
Senior Member
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2001 : 4:28:32 PM
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Well, we keep them about 12 years in service, 13 if we have to. Then, they are used as spares for about four or five years. Our oldest spares that we have now are '85 & 88 Wards. They are going soon.
Will
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cowlitzcoach
Advanced Member
USA
325 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2001 : 10:19:26 PM
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How a bus is used or in the case of most school buses how they are abused should determine the life cycle more than anything else.
Some states and a lot school districts have an absolute limit on how long a bus may be used. Some have a life cycle of less than 10 years.
San Diego Unified has changed their whole fleet to a 7-year cycle. They figure that no bus, if treated with anything close to decent treatment, can last 7 years without any major component breaking. In addition, when the bus is sold or traded, the value will be much greater than those buses that are a half step away from being a chicken coop on wheels.
As far as safety, the only changes Crown and Gillig made in their buses to meet the post-1977 safety requirements was to add emergency exits and high back seats. No structural changes were made. They didn't need to make any changes because they still met or exceeded any Federal or State requirements.
With today's lubricants and designs, a well cared for bus should last next to forever. A bus that is trashed will be lucky to last out the service life, even if it is only 7 years.
I have seen many route buses that don't do 4500 miles per year. They may have the better part of 100K riders on and off of the bus during that time. In that case, what is going to wear out?
I have seen buses that have done 60K miles per year and only 5K riders on and off of the bus during that time. What is going to wear out on that bus?
I do not believe in set time limits for service life cyeles. The time limit should be done on a case by case basis. After all, there are many 40-50 year old Crowns and Gilligs still doing yeoman service while at the same time the last of the Waynes, Carpenters, and the early AmTrans left a lot to be desired.
I would agree a good looking bus the kids will take care of better than a bus that is trashed. But a bus can be trashed in a year if it is allowed.
If a good product is purchased, if it is maintained well over the service life, the bottom line should be profitable for all concerned and a safe ride for the kids.
Mark O.
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2001 : 04:39:41 AM
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Our current plans provide for us to keep conventional buses 10 years. We're a high mileage fleet and 10 years for us has been 200,000 + miles. Our Front engine transits will be kept for 12-13 years and our RE's 13-15 years (as plans are now). The heavier duty components in our transit buses will allow us to keep them in service longer than the conventionals.
Joe
Edited by - wagonmaster on 08/13/2001 04:40:30 AM |
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Blake913
Senior Member
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2001 : 3:35:28 PM
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Ours are the same as Thomas00. That's long enough!
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2001 : 4:01:40 PM
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we in baltimore keep our conventional buses for no more than 14 years. This year, our oldest buses are 1989 Thomas Chevy's. I could see these buses going for another 5 years but I know they will retire them next year. and I agree with that because its the taxpayers money that is repairing these buses once they get older and I think adding new features is dumb in many cases. For instance, why upgrade to new "busBoy" style fender mirrors, add emergency exits, add reflective tape, add amber lights, add stop signs to buses that are 12 years old and are in the shop more often just because of age? I mean, I think that adding those components to a fleet of 60 12 year old buses is absurd, I think taking that money and putting into the purchase of new buses is a much wiser descision. Now, if a bus is only say 5 years old, and a new feature comes out like the care system ( a device mounted on the axle that detects movement in front of the bus and buzz's in the drivers cabin ) than I can see putting money into upgrading those buses. But buses that are 14 years old, its just rediculous.
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largebus
Advanced Member
USA
468 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2001 : 5:01:06 PM
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Our district has a roughly 10 year lifespan, plus up to 5 more years as a spare bus. Buses are gradually pulled off routes and are made into spares, then eventually scrapped.
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2001 : 2:33:31 PM
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I don't think there should be an age limit on buses. If they are cared for properly and upgraded to required standards, then I think it's fine! Just think about it, many people would love to be 20 or 15 again, but lots of you are saying a bus should be scrapped at that age. I know there's a difference between a bus and people but if you take care of a bus well, it'll last and should still be used, just like if you take care of yourself well, you'll live longer.
Basically, if you take care of your buses, they should last, and they should be able to be in service as long as they are safe and reliable.
The BusBoy
Stop at: www.mikesbusyard.cjb.net |
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MFfan310
Active Member
20 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2001 : 3:04:41 PM
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I agree with 86a, Thomas00, B. Busguy33, BlueBird44, wagonmaster, Jared, AmTranIntFE01, and CarpenterBus19.
I think schools should keep buses for no more than 10 years and then sell them (at least that's what my school district does) unless they're on a budget, which they should buy pre-owned buses that are no more than 15 years old. I have heard about pre-1977 Crowns and Gilligs being used, but I don't think any pre-1977 bus should be used in student transportation at all because they lack today's Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards for school buses, especially compartmentilization, which saves countless lives every year.
"I'm sorry, but I can't handle AmTrash." |
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BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2001 : 3:10:33 PM
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10 to 12 years is enough years for a School Bus! Yes some areas in are country are harder then other's but most buses need to be replaced by the miles that are put on them! The engine will last longer then the body will!
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Blue Bird 0199
Senior Member
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2001 : 3:24:26 PM
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Our standard are the same as Thomas00 and Blake913, 12 year for the coventional and 14 year for the transit. The older spare buses in ours fleet are the 90s. We sold all of ours 89s Carpenter International, the district really got some value from those buses. Soon the 90s will be sold off. My district really take care of their buses, keep them looking good. I know Thomas00 district really take care of their buses too. You should have seen their 1988 Thomas buses the paint on the buses fad a little but their seats was still frim and very well taken care of inside and outside. The fleet districts really take their buses in Georgia.
Chris |
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DJBUSMARK
Senior Member
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2001 : 6:13:27 PM
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This is my first post to this forum, although I've been reading the various posts in all the forums for a while now. I am a part time spare/charter driver, filling in mostly after school/night/weekend charters during the busy seasons.
The company that I drive for in MA keeps their buses for only 5 years, then they are sold or traded in when new buses are purchased. The last couple of years the buses they have sold have been purchased by other bus companies in MA or out of state. The buses are maintained strictly by the book, thus they retain their decent trade in/ sale value. I don't know of any other companies that turn over their buses in a 5 year cycle. Some companies around here unloaded some of their late 80's models after the 2000/2001 school year, I am talking smaller family run operations here, although I do see some older First Student and Laidlaw buses on the road as this school year began.
Mark
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BusladyofSoCal
Advanced Member
USA
366 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2001 : 9:09:49 PM
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It depends on the bus's maintenance, not age.
The bus I usually drive is 13 years old and is a solid and as safe as the day it rolled out of Crown Coach in Chino. It was well maintained and runs like a dream. The brakes are in excllent shape as well as the interior and body. It looks new.
What matters is the bus's condition and maintenance. A well maintained bus will last 20+ years. You CAN get roof hatches in an older bus if needed. There's many updates an older bus can get.
Age has nothing to do with when it should be retired.
Many of you say they should go after 13-15 years of service, maybe in your state where it snows, rains,etc. So you buses succumb to the salted roads. Crowns and Gilligs would probably suffer in your conditions also.
Here it's sunny, buses don't fall apart here. It rains but only the first 3-5 months of the year and it's nothing much. So buses are able to live longer here than states that snow, snow is a bus's worst enemy!!
Edited by - busladyofsocal on 10/01/2001 9:23:25 PM |
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ernestb
Senior Member
USA
145 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2001 : 07:30:12 AM
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Bedford keep transits for 7 years and conventionals for 6 years. Of course there are seperate issues when it has been wrecked or a conventional route is converted into a transit. Conventionals are becoming scare since they are being replaced by the Saf-T-Liners.
Why else cause they ROCK
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2001 : 12:52:26 PM
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Ya the conditions the bus goes through does have a lot to do with how long the bus lasts. I guess I should have just asked how long everyone is keeping the buses in their fleet in service. I always hear about how good the Crowns and Gilligs are, and I am not saying that they aren't, but they probably wouldn't last quite as long if they were driven in Michigan year after year.
86-A It will go in circles around your bus.
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Carpenter Bus_19
Advanced Member
USA
286 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2001 : 7:18:27 PM
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I think 10 - 12 years are plenty for the life span of a school bis for a NORTHERN climate with Ice snow and the infamous (all us northeners know ROAD SALT..) And i noticed if a bus sits for a long period of time it rusts a lot faster than a bus that goes out on a run on a regular basis. We just got a bus that went 10 miles in 2 years needless to say its in real bad shape 93 international Carpenter.
As for southern & western climates id feel 14 to 17 years is a good life span for those buses. unless they sit for long periods of time..
Wayne A legend of the past. |
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Bus Boy 39
Top Member
USA
1315 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2001 : 03:47:06 AM
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My contractor usually keeps both conventional and transits for 10-12 years. Our oldest bus now is a 1990, and that's a regular route bus. Our spares are one 1993, one 1995, one 1996, and one 1998. All spares are GMC Blue Birds.
"Gotta Love Those Birdies!" |
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BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2001 : 06:53:13 AM
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We keep buses in our fleet for 10 years max. However, if we have a shortage of buses or really have a need for additional spares then we will run a bus for an 11th year and put it out of service the following June.
If we washed and waxed more frequently and took better care of the exteriors, we could run them with no problem for about 15-20. We only put roughly about 170,000 miles over 10 years on our buses.
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HiNune
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 12:37:59 PM
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We currently have assigned to routes:
3 1973 66 psngr Int'l
1 1975 71 psngr "
5 1979 72 psngr "
2 1983 66 psngr "
1 1987 spc nds "
1 1991 53 psngr "
1 1995 Spc nds Bluebird
2 2000 72 psngr Int'l
All have recently passed CHP inspections and emission tests.
HiNune
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HiNune
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 12:38:09 PM
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We currently have assigned to routes:
3 1973 66 psngr Int'l
1 1975 71 psngr "
5 1979 72 psngr "
2 1983 66 psngr "
1 1987 spc nds "
1 1991 53 psngr "
1 1995 Spc nds Bluebird
2 2000 72 psngr Int'l
All have recently passed CHP inspections and emission tests.
HiNune
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 4:11:03 PM
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HiNune
Those are some old buses. 4 of them are pre 77 buses. Usually a conventional is not kept in service that long, or even a tranist. But hey they are Internatioanls so I am not surprised they lasted, but they must cost a lot in maintance? The 73 models are 29 years old now. I remember the first bus I drove was a 73 International, that was in 1979, the thing was retired in 1990, and that was considered to be very old for our fleet, but our district suffered in the 1970's, so they had to catch up in the 80's, they replaced all of the oldies, and then had to catch up again in the late 90's. We seem to be back on track now. They have set up how often they need to purchse new buses, how long buses will be spares, and they should be sold by the time they are 13 years old. By the time our fleet is completely changed over in about 12 years they are figuring all buses should be taken out of service after 8 years of service. Of course this is their "goal", and we will see how well it works. I think a bus can stay in regular service for a good 10 years but they are shooting for 8 and two years as a spare.
The oldest bus we use on a regular route is a 1993 model, soon to become a spare. The oldest spare we have is an 89.
86-A It will go in circles around your bus.
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 4:21:58 PM
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There's a district in So. Calif. that still has some 1950s era Crowns in service. Actually, they are just now retiring their 1951 (they parted that one out), two 1955s and one 1957. They still have a lot of 1960s and 1970s era Crowns in regular daily service. Of course, they've updated their oldies by making sure they meet all current safety standards. The engines in the 1950s vintage ones aren't the original engines either.
HiNune - what area in Calif. are you from? I work for Certified Transportation in South Orange County & trained at Saddleback Valley U.S.D.
Take care. 
The Buskid - CrownBus32@aol.com - http://www.crownbus.com |
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chevybluebird
Senior Member
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2003 : 12:14:07 PM
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| Some of our busses are 20 years old and in bad shape and still beig run. |
Blue bird rules!!!!!!!!!!
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jtrucker95370
New Member
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2003 : 08:56:24 AM
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| My school has a '71 gillig with a 3208 cat and 10 speed. It is the best |
Gillig is the best |
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Carpenter
Advanced Member
238 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2003 : 3:17:28 PM
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Our district retires at 20 years. Our 82 Wayne Lifeguard Conventionals are gone and this year, our 83 Thomas Conventionals will be gone. We have one 83 that's a load bus (for band equipment, no seats)...that bus is staying.
Our district keeps voting for no new taxes, so they get NO NEW BUSES! |
UNLAWFUL TO PASS WHEN RED LIGHTS FLASH |
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Busdude3
Top Member
USA
1178 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2003 : 5:48:40 PM
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| I believe buses should be used as long as possible. Its good to get a lot of use out of bus, even if there is a lot of new safety features. Its a waste of money for the owner. |
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2003 : 1:49:08 PM
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quote:
...Its good to get a lot of use out of bus, even if there is a lot of new safety features. Its a waste of money for the owner.
Not sure if I understand what you are trying to say: Are you saying it's a waste of money for the owner to purchase a new bus as opposed to maintaining an older one? |
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Busdude3
Top Member
USA
1178 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2003 : 3:25:12 PM
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| I think so. A new bus costs a lot (NOT including Type As and Bs), but with the proper care, you should be able to use an older buses for 15-25 years with no problems. |
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2003 : 3:40:54 PM
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quote:
I think so. A new bus costs a lot (NOT including Type As and Bs), but with the proper care, you should be able to use an older buses for 15-25 years with no problems.
In my opinion, even with proper care, I don't think a bus should be on the road for more than 20 years. Even that depends on the area the bus is being driven in. Things break and sometimes the cost of new parts and maintenance isn't worth it when you could have a brand-new unit with no miles on it. School buses take a lot of abuse and wear and tear. There comes a time when costs to maintain an older bus outweigh the costs (and benefits!) of buying a new or slightly used bus.
Also, in addition to proper care, the life-span of a bus depends on how well you spec the bus to begin with. A well-spec'd bus will usually last a lot longer than a bus that is not equipped with proper specs for the applications and conditions the bus will be used under. For the under-spec'd buses, some operators end up paying big $$$ to keep them on the road in the future. Those operators usually look at short-term costs as opposed to long-term costs. |
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Busdude3
Top Member
USA
1178 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2003 : 1:48:46 PM
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| Yeah, that is true. Some districts are REALLY rural - like many in Southern and Western Ohio. |
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Topic |
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Life span of School Buses
