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C24U
Advanced Member
United States
220 Posts |
 Posted - 11/11/2003 : 3:50:30 PM
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In case you missed it on other posts here, the new bus is out now!
www.C2thefuture.com |
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Bus Boy 39
Top Member
USA
1315 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2003 : 3:53:52 PM
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| Well, between the Blue Bird Vision and Thomas C2, I would HAVE to pick the Vision. The Thomas C2 is sooooooo ugly. It looks too much like a Vista also. I don't think the C2 will sell well. Hopefully Thomas won't stop offering the current Freightliner. If they do that, Thomas will go down slowly. All I can say is, "Good luck Thomas" |
I'll show you my air brakes if you show me yours. |
Edited by - Bus Boy 39 on 11/11/2003 3:54:57 PM |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2003 : 4:05:57 PM
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I agree with you, Bus Boy. The first thing that I thought of when I saw the new C2 was that it looked like a Vista, only with a much larger windshield (and, of course, a Freightliner chassis). I guess it's that window next to the service door that reminded me of the Vista.
I think it's interesting how they used fixed windows for the rear-most student windows. It's like they were trying to incorporate some 'old school' design aspects into the new product.
That said, I don't like the way the bus looks. Sorry, Thomas Built Buses. |
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BlueBird44
Top Member
USA
1639 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2003 : 4:30:47 PM
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| I think that back reminds me of some Superior school buses. One thing I def. do not like is how the last seat in the bus has no window that goes up and down. I think it is a plus to have thse windows for ventalation for those students not many students will like going from having a window to not having one. I also agree that it reminds me of the Vista at first glance I am was like it looks farmilar but I still partial. THe only thing I see is there are older people that are contractors in my area and I know when the see this bus they're going to be you call this a bus? It's to different for me to grasp I doubt those people will be able to. I just think it looks like it should come out in 10 more years. It's different it just needs to grow on me. I am sorry Thomas Built. |
IC-The Golden Shield of School Transportation |
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2003 : 4:56:36 PM
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Saf-t-liner C2 -- This industry, like the evolution of any living system, moves at a very slow but steady pace. This bus happens to leap about 15 if not more years into the future. The design is very similar to ABC Coach's m1000 commercial bus. We will all need to adjust to it, but I am very happy that Thomas let their guard down and plunged forward, regardless of the shock that the bus will send. Their may be some hints of Vista'ness' to it, but its all in the name of safety, and being a designer, I feel that this bus is a revolution. I have always tinkered with moving the cabin forward and over the axle for better visibility but never with out an awkward looking design becoming of it. Thomas did it, a little awkward at first, but I am thinking it will grow on me.
p.s. -- anyone think Gillig phantom school bus when they checked out the passenger compartment of this new bus?
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredg21/sets/ |
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Silas J.
Top Member
USA
938 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2003 : 4:59:41 PM
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| I actually like it. Sure, it's truly a damn weird look, but are looks everything in this industry? The student area seems VERY nice, and VERY spacious, for school buses. It does look weird, but I think it's a refreshing change. |
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tyler1012000
Active Member
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2003 : 5:20:18 PM
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| I have to agree with Silas. I think it looks a little funny but I like it. I have no idea why, but I think it's cool. Just thought I would put my opinion in. Thanks. |
Tyler C.
Future Driver of bus 21
Goodbye Mrs. L.-Currrent Driver of Bus 21 |
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Bri98-87
Advanced Member
USA
278 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2003 : 5:32:29 PM
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When i first looked at the bus on the website, i was like Oh s%#t. Actually after looking at it for a few minutes it started to grow on me. I have to say that i don't like the extended skirting and am wondering if that's standard or an option. I also would have prefered non-square overheads for nostalgia reasons. Overall, i think that the chassis will serve this conventional well and has been integrated nicely to the newest body to hit the school bus industry in a very long time. I am really interested in the cost of one of these units compared of course to IC and Bird. We'll see if the customers pony up to the added cost to stick with "Cadillac" of Conventional School Buses- the Thomas SAF-T-LINER C2.
Brian |
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1983WardFord
Top Member
USA
1395 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2003 : 5:44:48 PM
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| It looks like the Thomas Vista on crack or something... I suppose it'll grow on me, just like the Vision is starting to |
Due to the current economic condition, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice. |
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2003 : 7:59:40 PM
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| you know, I was thinking about something. No one really specs all that extra black usually. I really want to see this bus with yellow sides just for kicks. Hopefully black will catch on. |
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredg21/sets/ |
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The Bus Stop
New Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 06:11:07 AM
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I forgot that a good school bus is defined by its looks and not by its safety, quality, reliability, and durability. Its fortunate that those qualities don't matter anymore. Thank goodness we can still choose a bus that "looks good".
I would like to thank Thomas for building a bus for the right reasons. |
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 2:30:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by The Bus Stop
I forgot that a good school bus is defined by its looks and not by its safety, quality, reliability, and durability. Its fortunate that those qualities don't matter anymore. Thank goodness we can still choose a bus that "looks good".
I would like to thank Thomas for building a bus for the right reasons.
AMEN! |
Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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exCYter
Advanced Member
233 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 3:09:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by The Bus Stop
I forgot that a good school bus is defined by its looks and not by its safety, quality, reliability, and durability. Its fortunate that those qualities don't matter anymore.
Being such a new design, do we really know how this bus will perform and hold up? The only thing any of us DO know at the present time is what it looks like--some like it, some don't. |
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92FrdCarp#11
Top Member
USA
1455 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 4:21:39 PM
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| Like I said on another topic, I would rather have an IC CE than the new Saf-T-Liner C2. But overall on new conventionals, I would take the Bluebird Vision overall. Nothing against Thomas or anybody or anything, but the Saf-T-Liner C2 is just ugly & futuristic, but that is only my opinion, though. |
Johnny
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Edited by - 92FrdCarp#11 on 11/12/2003 4:24:41 PM |
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busdrver4jesus
Top Member
USA
802 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 4:38:50 PM
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Well, I definatly have to say that is one weird looking bus! As I looked through the photos, I noticed the red stop lights on the rear of the bus seem to look smaller than the amber lights. Also, I dont like the square design of the 8-way warning system.
I wish they had of shown more photos of the drivers area and control panel. |
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C24U
Advanced Member
United States
220 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 7:39:55 PM
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Rest assured that Thomas has been working quite hard on the specs of all the states. Why wouldn't they? It might be in their interest. |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 7:44:01 PM
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I am interested in seeing this bus with New York State specs.
With blackout, I'm not sure if the bus will look as dazzling. I guess we shall see. |
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sesalesman
Senior Member
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 06:39:49 AM
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quote:
Being such a new design, do we really know how this bus will perform and hold up? The only thing any of us DO know at the present time is what it looks like--some like it, some don't.
First, I'm sorry if this quote thing doesn't work. I've never used it before  .
Go to www.c2thefuture.com. You can find out more about the bus. |
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spec
Active Member
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 06:48:15 AM
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"We'll see if the customers pony up to the added cost to stick with "Cadillac" of Conventional School Buses- the Thomas SAF-T-LINER C2."
I think the "Mercedes" of Conventional School Buses is more accurate...; )
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IHAVEABRAIN
Active Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 07:29:18 AM
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| BB Vision prettier than the new C2? You have got to be kidding? Fortunately this is America and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Heaven forbid that someone do something innovative in the bus industry. Ask anyone outside the school bus industry if a bus has changed in the last 100 years and see what they say. I guess if you live in a chicken coup for 100 years then a mansion would look far fetched. Try it you might like it. I would also seriously doubt that Thomas would spend $85 million and forget to test something or check with the states to see if it meets their specifications. I know that the responses I heard at the NAPT show were nothing but positive and excited about Thomas's new product. |
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exCYter
Advanced Member
233 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 07:59:16 AM
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| Obviously Thomas themselves is acknowledging that this bus may not catch on by hedging their bets and keeping their old conventional around as well. |
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IHAVEABRAIN
Active Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 08:17:15 AM
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| There is a thing called ramp up/ramp down. This is especially true when you go to a fully automated/robotic manufacturing plant. This is also true when you use a 40 gate manufacturing/processes methodology when developing a new product. This is exactly what Mercedes, GMC, Dodge, Maybach, Ferrari, Porsche, Ford, Jaguar, Rolls Royce, and everyone else does. When they introduce a new vehicle at an International car show they don't start producing 10,000 of them the next day, nor do they quit building what they are currently producing. This is done to insure that all processes are in place and that things operate as they should. |
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exCYter
Advanced Member
233 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 2:16:44 PM
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Ferraris, Rolls Royce and Maybach are all essentially hand-built cars so to compare them to ramping up production of a school bus is a laughable notion.
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IHAVEABRAIN
Active Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 2:25:15 PM
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| What is Ford, Chrysler, Dodge, and the others? Selective reaction to facts leads to misinformation. Not everyone member of this forum has a 1 second memory. I guess one companies website talking of the advantages of bonded glass, and another division of the company talking poorly of bonded glass would be okay as well. |
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IHAVEABRAIN
Active Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 2:32:00 PM
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| Just another fact. Regardless of how they are constructed they all follow gate systems, they must meet all applicable crash, emission, sound level, etc... requirements pertinent to their particular destination of domicile. They do not turn on the gates of production until all of these gates are completed, regardless if hand built or not, or based on quantity. Are you an engineer? |
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busbiz
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 2:48:32 PM
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| not so laughable the engineer is dead on right |
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exCYter
Advanced Member
233 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 5:34:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IHAVEABRAIN
I guess one companies website talking of the advantages of bonded glass, and another division of the company talking poorly of bonded glass would be okay as well.
Yes it would be okay because they're speaking to the application requirements, whats so hard to understand about that. Why does Mercedes tout diesel engines for its Sprinter vans while Chrysler doesn't even think of offering diesel engines in its minivans? That's about as logical as your scenario.
Obviously Stuttgart's influence is seen in this product. Whether that translates into increased market share is yet to be seen. |
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GMCBlueBird83
Top Member
USA
1478 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 5:46:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by R. Solano
I am interested in seeing this bus with New York State specs.
With blackout, I'm not sure if the bus will look as dazzling. I guess we shall see.
Here it is with blackout and lettering. It still looks pretty dazzling to me
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 5:54:58 PM
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| The blackout makes it look rather awkward. I guess I'll have to see it in person to make final judgement. |
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NewBee Driver
Senior Member
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 6:12:57 PM
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| Personaly, I think the blackout makes it look a little more school bus like without all that black skirting around the bottom |
Driving Seattle To School - And Loving It!! |
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C2thefuture
New Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 6:19:36 PM
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| Blacked out skirts are just show bus treatment. Most customers will specify yellow. |
Lurkin' and lovin' it! |
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skoolhack
Senior Member
76 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 6:23:18 PM
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exCYter,
This can't be that hard for you to understand. The Sprinter is aimed primarily at the cargo van, light-delivery truck marketplace. Diesel engines make sense in that realm. Minivans are consumer products aimed at families. Diesel is not as readily available and tends to not smell so nice when you get it on your clothes. Not necessarily the best combination for a family hauler. They are aimed at different markets and are equipped according to those markets.
Medium duty trucks and school buses are very similar when it comes to how they are equipped. They use the same axles, same transmissions, same engine types. Yes, the school bus body and the truck body are vastly different due to their stated purpose, their "cargo" is vastly different, but most technical aspects of the two are very similar. You have to know that. You're an International guy. Go to Springfield and watch a school bus chassis and a truck chassis being built...side-by-side.
For a second time, a windshield on a bus and a truck are of similar size, similar height. It is absolutely legitimate to make the statement that International is playing both sides of the fence on this issue. You can't say, "Curved front-windshield glass area gives the driver a commanding view of the road. The swept-back angle helps deflect debris, minimizing glass damage", about your truck windshield without looking a tad hypocritical vis-a-vis a curved, swept-back, bonded school bus windshield. Are minimizing glass damage and improving the driver's view not issues for school buses as well? Instead, IC seems to say about its school bus windshields, "Our glass is going to break so it's cheap and easy to fix." |
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98TomFord
Top Member
USA
812 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 05:14:11 AM
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Well being this is the first in a long time that I have been able to get online and look at all these posts, I just wana say Hi ya'll and that I am to die for this new Thomas Saf-T-Liner C2. I mean, I don't care for Freightliners or Thomas really anymore, but this bus has brought me back for sure. So it looks like a Vista, but I am sure that it's not goign to act like on with drivers legs being burnt by the doghouse or anything. That back window I really don't like, because being a highschooler that rides bus every day, that is a very nice window to have open becuase the air does circulate quite nicely all around cooling you off. But wow, I am basicly wordless towards this bus, the safty that Thomas & Freightliner put into this bus is just remarkable and I know personally, I'd rather drive one of these buses than a regular Thomas/Freightliner. And for those who don't like that black skirting, ior the skirting at all, I myself hope that is an opition, cuz I hate bus with extended skirted to the back, plus it doesn't look like a normal bus. Other than that, I'm speechless.
~Mike~ |
My Ford Can Turn On $50, Can Your Int? ~Ford Buses - Gems To The Eyes~ |
Edited by - 98TomFord on 11/14/2003 05:15:05 AM |
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exCYter
Advanced Member
233 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 07:35:31 AM
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Most delivery trucks are considerably most expensive than a school bus and theres a reason for that.
A brand new F-350 with a PowerStroke isn't much less expensive than a 65 passenger school bus with an International VT-365!! In this industry, cost is everything!
You're not understanding me, I've never said flat glass is better in of itself! What I do say is that it makes more sense because it is less expensive to repair, takes less time and is capable of being replaced by almost anybody. So, YES, in this case utilizing a flat glass windshield IS better than the bonded and curved windshield Thomas is using. It's all about the application its designed for. A little thing we like to call COMMON SENSE. Not using materials simply to say you're using them--how about using what will serve the industry the best? |
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C24U
Advanced Member
United States
220 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 07:43:00 AM
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| I like how the School Bus Fleet article about the new IC CE seized the opportunity to take a jab at the C2's nice new windshield. I'd rather defend my bus than attack someone else's. The comment about the windshield almost seemed a bit awkward being put in there with the rest of the article. Kind of like a "Oh yeah........well you're fat!" just being thrown in in an argument about politics. Seemed a bit out of place. |
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exCYter
Advanced Member
233 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 07:52:12 AM
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| Its obvious IC smells blood in the water. They honestly feel that using a bonded windshield is a big negative so they're pointing that out. Whether or not customers agree remains to be seen. |
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Topic |
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New Thomas Safe-T-Liner C2 Pictures
