| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
 Posted - 10/07/2003 : 07:51:56 AM
|
This is a question for all school bus drivers. Or, if you have been a school bus driver in the past, feel free to reply as well.
My question to all of you is this: After reading a few topics over the past few weeks, I wanted to find out how much student management training you received while you were training to become a school bus driver. 
I thought the student management training program at my company would have been decent, but essentially it wasn't.
The only student management training I received during my school bus driver training process was to watch a 30 minute video which basically showed drivers who first lacked the skills necessary to discipline students on the bus and then the video showed those same drivers after receiving their training. In between those two segments, the student management trainer for these drivers presented only a few basic skills when dealing with student discipline issues. To demonstrate the few basic skills shown in the video, the trainer set-up a few different scenarios and the scenarios were acted out by a few of the bus drivers in the audience.
Aside from watching this 30 minute video on two occasions, I have not received any other student management training. I hate to admit this, but I am going to anyway, I certainly could use a lot more student management training than what this video outlined! Fortunately, I have not yet encountered any serious discipline issues with the students I have transported, but I would like to know what to do once I have to deal with a serious situation where student management training would prove beneficial.
I have a feeling there may be a lot more school bus drivers out there that are undertrained in the area of student management. On the other hand, some of those undertrained drivers may be very good at discplining students on their buses, while others who were properly trained in student management choose not to employ their skills when dealing with discipline problems.
These are just my thoughts on this issue. Thanks in advance for all of your feedback!
|
|
|
KMM
Advanced Member
USA
271 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2003 : 07:21:11 AM
|
Really, I have had none. I was given suggestions by other drivers but it was basicly - Here are the keys, the bus, go get them and take them home. By the way, they can do this but they can't do that so make sure they obey the rules. Have a safe trip.
We need more student management training in our district. |
 |
|
|
bbird66
Top Member
USA
881 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2003 : 11:38:45 AM
|
Student managment training....The training I've had, and seminars I've been to, can do some good but, It seems like it all goes out the window when you encounter a completly different scenario than what gets depicted in the videos. So I usually go back to the old standby. Sit down, be quite, keep your hands to yourself, no hanging out the windows ect. So I will not have to write you up for the principal and we'll get along just fine. It seems like administrators now feel like drivers should be psycologist, stop the bus talk to the child and reason with him/her and come to a mutual agreement on what to do. Sorry but drivers do not get paid enough for that nor the time in my opinion.
So I guess what I'm saying is just keep it simple! just like I said above. So if you ask 300 drivers what they do you will get 300 different answers, some right some wrong. |
Were gonna miss you "Brent"..Good luck in "Heidi land"
"I know you miss the Wainwrights Bobby, but they were weak and stupid people...and that's why we have wolves and other large predators" .. The Far Side
"On a two hour delay when will my child be picked up??"
|
|
|
|
Sherm
Top Member
USA
621 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2003 : 11:42:35 AM
|
| Every driver I put on the road gets very basic passenger management training before driving (about 2 hours worth.) After a route is identified for this driver, the training becomes more specialized. You can't train for every scenario before stepping on a bus, so it helps to have some "on-the-job" training, too. Note, however, that ALL drivers receive training in the basics BEFORE driving on their own. A critical variable in passenger management is the driver's attitude and approach to problem solving; things that cannot be trained. All of this training must be accompanied by administrative support to be successful. |
|
|
|
80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2003 : 8:09:32 PM
|
I've learned alot of things from this forum. Regarding situations i've encountered. There is a video tape that my company uses. It is so odd and so unrealistic. It pictures this bus driver who encounters kids hitting and throwing papers. The bus driver pulls over says "You have a choice to make, you don't have to stop doing what you're doing, but we aren't moving until you make a decision" How unrealistic is that. In the first place, the boy was hitting the girl. If i see someone hitting someone they are not givin a choice and I hate being delayed so they aren't getting a chance they are going to stop right now. The video showed the bus pulling over for 5 minutes. I will pull my bus over for a minute max. They hate when the bus pulls over so the other kids tell that person to stop.
Back to the subject, I think student managment topics need to be covered more! |
|
|
|
wmd
Active Member
Canada
16 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 5:55:41 PM
|
I just trained over the summer and started driving in September.
Student management training was almost nil for me. Like you, my group watched a short video, and our trainer also spoke to us candidly about various situations he'd had, throughout the two weeks of training.
The people in this forum are GREAT!! I've posted several messages and the responses I've had have been very helpful.
Also, experienced drivers are a good source for ideas. I'm a spare, and I always try to talk to the driver I'm replacing to get ideas on how to manage the kids.
Finally, I'm finding, a month later, than a lot of student management comes from your own personality. What works for one driver may not work for another. You learn what's best for you, and I find it varies from school to school. What works with one load of elementary kids might not work at the next school of elementary kids.
An example: I've been sparing on the same upper elementary route quite frequently, and I'm getting to know the kids. The regular driver yells at them all the time to sit down (they are always out of their seats). I, on the other hand, am not a yeller. At first, I pulled the bus over, got up and waited until the bus was quiet, then told them to sit and stay in their seats. That happened several times the first couple days. Now, when I'm driving and I see a kid up, I simply slow down. They know, and they sit. I'm finding that this strategy is working quite well for me.
Good luck!
wmd |
|
|
|
JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 8:37:08 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by B. Busguy33
This is a question for all school bus drivers. Or, if you have been a school bus driver in the past, feel free to reply as well.
My question to all of you is this: How much student management training you received while you were training to become a school bus driver.
None. The bus driving training was good and the state instructors 'Behind the wheel' training was superb, so good every bus driver should be required to take that course. Still, even at the state level, student management training is all to often horrific, grossly misleading, 1950's fantasy training, a joke, and if put to use most likely a disaster waiting to happen.
Get your student management training from local colleges offering summer workshops in violence prevention training. Very effective training and not too spendy. (jk)
|
Edited by - JK on 10/09/2003 8:39:02 PM |
|
|
|
DURHAMIZED
Senior Member
55 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2003 : 11:09:49 AM
|
Amtran -
TRY the tactics used in the video that you feel are unrealistic. It will not happen after only trying it once - but it WILL work. Give the choices to them AND then if you write them up - THEY MADE THE CHOICE! They CHOSE to hit another student, they CHOSE not to follow the rules of safety, they CHOSE to stand & move around,.... - But YOU have to be consistent and you MUST follow through. Idle threats will NOT work, many drivers quit, very frustrated because they couldnt get things under their control. Students must KNOW what is expected of them.
After seeing this video, we laughed & said the same thing you are saying. I have seen this video or one like it and when I first saw it, I thought it was a crock..... but another driver insisted it DOES work.
Student Management training is very important, but it is like all the other topics - very important as well - but only so many hours of training scheduled. If trainers gave 4 hours of every important subject (winter driving, operation lifesaver, student management, slips/trips/falls, etc.....) think how many hours per year it would take for all of that. If someone needs additional in a certain area - ASK FOR IT! Drivers already complain of the minimal amount they are required to go through now and in some states - so many hours of certain topics must be covered each year in order to keep a school bus permit current.
Again, just try what you saw - use it with smaller students at first - if that helps, but I think you'll be surprised - it DOES work, when used effectively and CONSISTENTLY with following through every time.
GOOD LUCK 
|
|
|
|
Stevebus42
Advanced Member
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 1:17:16 PM
|
| I would say that the Formal training is probably minimal at best. The real training comes every day. |
|
|
|
macondriver
Top Member
USA
533 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 4:06:43 PM
|
we had none....a film that was so lame it ould never work.
"Tom, you are breaking the rules, please stop breaking the rules tome"
PLEASE.... i agree with MLK, talking to vetren drivers and just useing my own "mom skills". all kids are going to try yu to see how far they can get, once they see that they can not push you to far..most oftem they will go with your program. but not always...... |
Driving my way to the top, in a big yellow bus...and proud of it. |
|
|
|
Carpenter
Advanced Member
238 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2003 : 03:50:14 AM
|
We had this one film about assertive discipline that we watch over and over again. It shows a bunch of drivers in California in Crown buses using the "warning" and "check" system to manage their kids. "Tommy, that's a warning!" and "Tommy, that's a check!"
The video looks early 90s, maybe late 80s. Lee Cantor was the "expert." That's the extent of our student management training. It's a rather funny film and you can learn some good techniques for dealing with bad kids. |
UNLAWFUL TO PASS WHEN RED LIGHTS FLASH |
Edited by - Carpenter on 10/12/2003 04:03:16 AM |
|
|
|
Whiskers
Senior Member
92 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2003 : 7:08:03 PM
|
No training. I had to learn it on the streets.
I find the most important tenet of maintaining discipline is to be firm, consistent, and fair. Learn all the kids' names and something about them... It helps you if they perceive that you are interested enough in THEM to learn something about them. If a student is giving you problems, and they are involved in sports or other extracurricular activities, you may be in luck. I once talked to the football coach about a boy "dipping" on my bus. Mr "Dipper never gave me another problem.... Seems like my word caused him to earn extra laps after practice (a good trade for him because if I had written him up, he would have been suspended for 5 days AND would have had to attend "tobacco school" for a long boring day).
And I find that it is important to show those you have "disciplined" the same amount of consideration when they return (if suspended). One HS girl on my bus has been suspended about 5 times over the last three years. I still greet her every time I see her... I always try to convey the thought that I am just doing my job, and it's nothing personal when I do take action. Most respond favorably to this action.
I have seen a couple of videos over the years, but they did not impress me much. |
|
|
|
Red
New Member
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2003 : 11:34:00 AM
|
Hi all...
Just found this site and have been reading some interesting threads.
I work for a NJ transportation company that just deals with special ed students...all ages.
I was interviewed once...filled out an application; had my license copied; went for fingerprinting...all the paperwork "stuff". This was on a Friday. Picked up the van on Saturday and started my run on a Monday.
There was absolutely NO training...then or now nor any mention of it for the future. I got a folder with the students names, addresses and their school calendar. I can call the office with a problem but it's an answering machine. If there's a problem with the van...call the garage.
So I was hired and just "thrown out" there...no problems in a year and a half but feel the responsibility...(as you all do).
|
|
|
|
rookiedriver
Active Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 8:43:22 PM
|
| Hi! I had great training to learn to drive a school bus, but no training on disciplining students. I am a substitute driver, so many students take advantage of knowing that I may not be back the next day. Training is offered when it is available in out area. (Around twice per year.)All drivers must have several hours of training every four years. Most routes have been uneventful as far a discipline, but the extra training on dealing with unruly kids would be helpful. I get alot of insight from the fultime drivers and I report back to them any problems that I encounter.If discipline becomes a major issue while driving we report directly to our superviser, the bus garage or the police when nessasary.I have learned alot from these forums. Thanks! rookiedriver. |
|
|
|
JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2003 : 01:04:58 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by macondriver
"Tom, you are breaking the rules, please stop breaking the rules Tom"
That is lame. Might work with the cooperative KG child, That's about it. No amount of training can replace school staff ready to back up their bus drivers expectations on the school buses. Here's an excerpt from a review I gave to a state PTS consultant and certified instructor. The excerpt refers to an after class discussion with the presenter, concerning bus driver authority on the school bus:
You presented something along the line that bus drivers are not the authority on the school bus - that the school is the authority - and mentioned bus drivers can be too picky. My understanding is you said that a bus driver telling a student to sit by the window, and the student refuses to move to the window spot, as one possible example of bus driver pickiness.
When the mindset is respectful toward the bus driver's authority on his or her school bus, a perception of bus driver pickiness is not usually the issue, be that the child's, school's or parents' perception. The issue is the child's refusal to follow the bus driver's directions.
As it happens students riding my bus are assigned specific seats and some are assigned specific spots in their seats. Students that can meet compartmentalization expectations and can keep hands and feet to self, are given preference for an aisle spot. Students that ignore keeping out of the aisle - according to what this bus driver says is out of the aisle - persist at grabbing other students, tripping students or anything else the bus driver considers an issue, are given a window or center spot preference.
I believe kids are smarter than some adults might think, especially concerning school imposed consequences v/s the attention getting benefits from acts of misbehavior. When attention is what a kid is after, the unruly love to be perceived the victim of an alleged picky or mean school bus driver.
The claim that kids have no respect for authority is usually a false assumption They most certainly can be polite, demonstrate respect and also follow directions discovering plenty to do that is much safer to be found doing on the bus.
What is not respected is authority having no value. Kids are efficient thinkers. Some kids will not follow the directions of any adult they can not trust means what he or she says.
What would be the child's learning experience - in regard to consequences for a child's refusal to sit by the window? What would be the consequences for refusing to follow the bus driver's directions?
What level of respect are other adults demonstrating toward their school bus drivers for the kids to follow?
And what can be the expected environment on any school bus where students realize the school staff and parents do not acknowledge the bus driver's authority and the adult in charge of the bus?
On an out-of-control bus I wouldn't necessarily accept that it is only the kids that are out of control, or disrespectful, toward safe student practices and their bus driver. Have to look at the adults involved first, to see what mischief the adults are committing against their school bus driver - what example the adults are establishing for kids to follow.
Where there is no consequence for defiant and unsafe conduct, where the bus driver's authority is non-existent -- compromised by policy, lack of school staff support and poor violence prevention training -- even the best intended bus driver will still be driving an unsafe school bus
It is no more appropriate to keep a hostile or defiant child on the school bus, than it is to drive a busload of kids and with no brakes. Bus drivers stuck without proper training and authority, to help keep bus environment a safe place for kids, place themselves and their passengers in jeopardy every time they drive the bus.
What I find so amazing, in the struggle to find a way to win over some school staff and some parents, to help me keep kids safe on the school bus - each step of the way, for me - and I believe for every school bus driver - is the answer was always there. A simple thing - brilliant - hidden behind a misconception told us by someone we believed in, trusted, and gave our loyalty.
Some administrations persistently fail to realize that when they compromise their bus drivers authority on the buses, they compromise their own authority and school staff's authority in the school. School board authority and their transportation policies are compromised. Even parents authority in the home is sometimes compromised. And ultimately, the authority to help keep kids safe is compromised. The bus becomes unsafe.
Voltaire's thought, "No snow flake ever felt responsible for an avalange," may well apply to all the adults responsible for helping the bus driver keep the school bus environment a safe place for kids.
A little effort from the adults involved - properly trained bus drivers, effective support and honoring their school bus driver's authority on the bus - can help save lives.
You could be the one that someday helps me save one child's life.
STS "Dealing With Young Riders," (which also adapts to dealing with difficult people) is an excellent introductory to asking defiant kids appropriate and effective QUESTIONS!!!! "Back in control," a small book, offers about one or two chapters out of the book that are effective with the most defiant kids. And, college offered violence prevention summer workshops place most state PTS so-called advanced student management training in it's proper place - the trash can. (jk)
Note: The pricing for the book, "Back in Control," at the above link is outdated. The book is not in production now and available inexpensively at used book stores.
More insight on the book, Back in control: (CLick Here) and (CLick Here) |
Edited by - JK on 10/21/2003 01:32:49 AM |
|
|
|
bosslady
Advanced Member
USA
336 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2003 : 08:29:55 AM
|
It is difficult to find good material to train drivers in student management. I have tried several different videos. Some of them our drivers thought was "lame" also,
I agree with JK, no amount of training is going to help the drivers if they do not have authority on the bus to back up their discipline.
In our district, if a student was told to sit in a certain seat and he refused, he would probably be suspended from the bus for a while. That would be refusing a direct order from a bus driver and can mean suspension. Our administrators have always been very supportive of the bus drivers and myself (T/D). They back us up with discipline and I certainly have a say in what happens to a student who won't obey the rules. Therefore, we have very few discipline problems on our buses.
Veteran drivers with good discipline skills can help younger drivers learn how to deal with student behavior. Personalities seem to play a part. Some drivers just seem to have the personality to get along with the students but still have good discipline and other don't. Some drivers just want to drive the bus and ignore what's going on behind them until they absolutely have to take care of it. No amount of training is going to change them. For those drivers who really want to learn how to control their buses and have good discipline, I wish there was some better material out there. Maybe there is and I just haven't seen it.
A school bus with well behaved students is definitely a safer bus. |
|
|
|
wmd
Active Member
Canada
16 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2003 : 8:55:46 PM
|
Bosslady wrote:
quote:
In our district, if a student was told to sit in a certain seat and he refused, he would probably be suspended from the bus for a while. That would be refusing a direct order from a bus driver and can mean suspension. ... <snip> ... Veteran drivers with good discipline skills can help younger drivers learn how to deal with student behavior.
I spared on a route for five days last week. It was a pretty decent route, with a variety of ages.
The worst run was an overload/late bus from the local high school. Overload buses are notorious for having some of the more challanging students, and this bus was no exception.
I had some problems with the kids acting up in the backseats, so the next day I sat everyone ahead of the emergency exits. There was some bellyaching, but all complied, with one girl being the most vocal. This same student sat on her knees, facing backward the entire trip, despite my repeated requests that she sit properly.
The next day I allowed all the students to return to the back, except for this one girl who wouldn't sit properly. I decided to sit her up front for definance and also disrespect. She proceeded to tell me that I had no authority to make her sit up front. When I told her that, yes indeed I could assign her a seat, she called her mother from the bus on her cellphone! Her mother then called my boss to complain!!
In the end, my boss and the school were very supportive, and affirmed my decision. However, this all happened the last day I was on the route. The student was technically suspended from the bus for a week, but I don't know that the regular driver enforced this. I asked the regular driver to call and discuss, but she never did.
When I discussed it with my boss, she said I handled the situation well. She suggested that I shouldn't have continued the run when the girl was sitting on her knees ... i.e. pull the bus over and wait for her to sit properly. I'll know this for next time!
wmd |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
A Question for All School Bus Drivers
