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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
 Posted - 12/12/2017 : 05:39:25 AM
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I received an email from our state association with links to different articles and various subjects relating to school buses. One, in particular, caught my eye. It is titled "Information Report- Repair or Replacement of Components on School Buses" (see link below). My question for everyone is; what is the "useful life of a school bus". What made me think about this and wonder what you all think is this quote; "While there are no government regulations to ensure components to be made available for a specified period of time, market forces usually dictate the continued availability of replacement components for all motor vehicles, including school buses, throughout their useful life."
My thought is that cars have a longer "useful life" because there are more of them and a larger customer base for companies to produce parts. With the relatively low production numbers of school buses, logic dictates that their life is shorter than that of a car. I am begining to find it difficult to find at least a handful of components for the old Chevy chassis that we have.
http://www.nasdpts.org/Documents/Information%20Report-Repair%20or%20Replacement%20of%20Components%20on%20School%20Buses.pdf |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2017 : 07:00:33 AM
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Who exactly is that document aimed towards? It seems like something that somebody wrote just so they can say "Hey, look what I did, this is why my position exists!" Of course I'm reading it as a supervisor who started out in the garage, so maybe what seems like common sense will be useful info to a new employee who's never been around a bus before?
Anyways...Manufacturers seem to say 12-15 years for the service life. In the real world, lots of us are seeing 17, 20, 25 years out of need.
I feel for guys still trying to run Waynes and Carpenters with limited parts availability. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2017 : 07:09:12 AM
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| Yeah, I'm not running anything as old as a carpenter but pretty old none the less. It always puzzled me that a state like California would have such old buses. Some of those old Gilligs out there were getting long in the tooth. I think the only reason they were replaced was because of emissions. That shows you where their priorities are! |
Bryan |
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krmvcs
Advanced Member
362 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2017 : 07:30:35 AM
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| I dumped 3 86 Gilligs about 5 or so years ago. Just this summer I decided not to re cert an 85 Thomas. now the oldest are a pair of 90 BB AARE's. Seems "useful life" ends when we absolutely cannot use them anymore. |
-Ken- |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2017 : 08:25:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by krmvcs
Seems "useful life" ends when we absolutely cannot use them anymore.
Agreed, I run mine until they turn to dust and return to the Earth. (Slight exaggeration, of course) |
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dferrell
Senior Member
102 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2017 : 1:57:21 PM
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I'm here in California...we just got rid of a 1987 Bluebird. We still have a 1990 and 1991 Bluebird that get used fairly regularly, so yeah, we are pushing 25 - 30 years.
We are a small school district and we can't afford to buy new buses so the only way we get them is through state grants. California used to have a small school bus replacement grant. Then when the economy tanked, so did that program. So we didn't have any grant program for several years. Just this year, the ARB (Air Resourses Board) has now taken over the small school grant program and everything is now run through them. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2017 : 2:15:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dferrell
I'm here in California...we just got rid of a 1987 Bluebird. We still have a 1990 and 1991 Bluebird that get used fairly regularly, so yeah, we are pushing 25 - 30 years.
We are a small school district and we can't afford to buy new buses so the only way we get them is through state grants. California used to have a small school bus replacement grant. Then when the economy tanked, so did that program. So we didn't have any grant program for several years. Just this year, the ARB (Air Resourses Board) has now taken over the small school grant program and everything is now run through them.
Why doesn't your school board allocate money for buses instead of waiting for grants? |
Bryan |
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dferrell
Senior Member
102 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2017 : 2:59:42 PM
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quote:
Why doesn't your school board allocate money for buses instead of waiting for grants?
Good question. I have just always been told that we can't afford new buses. I think that if there was no grant program at all, then obviously they would have to come up with money somehow. We did have to purchase a new small special ed bus this past summer and they ended up financing about half of it. |
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Kodie
Top Member
United States
2028 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2017 : 3:56:06 PM
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NYS doesn't have much of a standard for this, but typically a type A is replaced by a district after 7-8 years from what I've observed if possible generally based on mileage. The transportation requirements for special education and private schools lead to the use of a lot of type A's, (3 kids to this school 12 miles away, 4 kids to that school 7 miles away) which are also running out of district, resulting in high mileage at an early age.
Most type C/D buses are around 10-12 years in a responsible district. The issue here is corrosion more than anything because the treatments used on the road are brutal to vehicles of any type. Anybody that keeps them longer than this isn't in very good shape. |
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Crown
Senior Member
89 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2017 : 03:51:28 AM
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I recently retired from 30+ years at a large District in CA. Up to the end, buses from the 80's and 90's were no more difficult to keep safely running than many newer ones.
There was no bigger nightmare than receiving a hundred or so brand new Brand-X buses. In some fairness, we did seem to be a guinea pig for new models and "latest technology". But serous issues were common and we no doubt weeded out quite a few things with manufacturers before others even saw them. There were also plenty of things that manufacturers had no solution for. They would occasionally come to us to see how we handled defects. When you replace large chunks of a large fleet, whining to the dealer and taking buses there for warranty is not always an option. There were some big engine issues we had to "eat" because of time constraints. We also had to buy time from the CHP when possible for remedies to materialize.
Some buses are obviously more durable than others and some engine parts were getting hard to find, but we had very few significant issues maintaining large numbers of 20 to 30 year old buses in good order. They are mostly gone now because of emissions, but there were many buses with 300-400k, and a handful with over 500K miles on them.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2017 : 04:17:41 AM
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It wasn't uncommon where I started out to see a bus with 300,000-400,000 miles on it before it went away. Typically nothing under 15 years old left service. Now we are talking 80s and 90s Internationals with Thomas bodies, and the one lonely blue bird conventional.
I doubt today's equipment will manage that. |
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JoeHEB1
Advanced Member
498 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2017 : 05:14:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24
I feel for guys still trying to run Waynes and Carpenters with limited parts availability.
Still runing Wayne, Carpenter and Ward, it's tough finding parts for the old fuel pinchers. |
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RonF
Top Member
867 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2017 : 05:19:48 AM
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| We are still running 10 TC 2000's. 5 of them run routes every day. We just retired our 1989 TC 2000 due to to the injector pump leaking fuel. Believe it or not that bus could sit for 3 months, start right up and still have greater than 90 psi in the air tanks. The left hand shifter location took some getting use to. |
US Army retired CMBT |
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second.flood
Top Member
USA
640 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2017 : 05:54:08 AM
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Oldest is a 98 special needs bus, 3800 with BB.
No parts issues, just rust issues.
Our district policy is 3 new buses per year, fleet of 33.
Reality is an average over 10 years of 1.4 buses per year. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2017 : 06:20:30 AM
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| Sounds like you are going to have a 23 year old bus before long! |
Bryan |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2017 : 06:22:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JoeHEB1
quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24
I feel for guys still trying to run Waynes and Carpenters with limited parts availability.
Still runing Wayne, Carpenter and Ward, it's tough finding parts for the old fuel pinchers.
My goodness! I'll keep you on my prayer list! |
Bryan |
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RonF
Top Member
867 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2017 : 06:45:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bwest
Sounds like you are going to have a 23 year old bus before long!
25 year old buses. Our 2 oldest or 1993's. Followed by 2 1994's |
US Army retired CMBT |
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Sherm
Top Member
USA
621 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2017 : 07:04:15 AM
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Rust takes over after 13-15 years in central Ohio. Otherwise, I could run the older ones forever.
Has anyone tried the wax-based undercoating? I'm testing this out on the four Visions I'm getting this year. |
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kd4jfd
Top Member
USA
1168 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2017 : 11:16:09 AM
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| Our oldest bus on a regular route is a 90 passenger All American 986 model, with the next oldest being an 1987. |
539 - Repair work in progress! |
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valleybusman
Top Member
USA
808 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2017 : 08:12:24 AM
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| We are presently trying to upgrade our fleet . When I came on board here 4 years ago the oldest bus was a 2000 BB all american . We have figured if a bus comes off state depreciation then we need to get rid of that bus . Here that is 13 years or older . Now our oldest is a couple TC's at 2003 . Just last September we purchased a demo Thomas and traded in TC 2000 that was a 2001 . By time I retire we will probably have the whole fleet updated |
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A School Bus's "Useful Life"
