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hey Buskid....you said you wouldn't buy anything older than a 69. Curious.. Why is that? I just saw a 67 come up on trader. Is there any difference between these years? BTW, I liked the way the windows sweep forward on those Crowns. Cool! Also there is a tandem in AZ that came up too. Nice pic of it. Too big for me but thought you might like to take a look at it. I think it's listed under RV though and not truck.

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I did the old bus thing about two years ago - I bought a 1952 Crown from a private school up near San Jose. It wasn't a bad bus by any means, but I can't deal with something of that vintage right now - not unless I sunk a ton of money into it.

It had no power steering, a hard-to-shift 4-spd. manual transmission, a weird air brake system,... the list could go on. It was a beautiful bus both inside and out, but I had to put a brand new $1800.00 drive shaft into it before I even took it home with me. It still needs some suspension work done on it. And honestly, I couldn't see myself keeping it and driving it around unless I did a complete engine and transmission swap, not to mention somehow adding power steering and some other things on to it. (I know, by doing all of that work to it would be taking away its originality, but come on!)

I don't think a 1967 Crown would necessarily be a bad thing. If I saw one with my ideal engine, transmission and options for the right price, I'd probably buy it. But this last time around when I bought a bus, I tried to stay away from anything older than a 1969. I didn't want to put myself into the same position I had been in before. The 1969 Crown that I have now is perfect for my needs. It's old enough to be way cool, but it's new enough for me to feel totally comfortable with it.

The windows on that 1967 Crown for sale right now are like any other regular Crown window, by the way. They "sweep forward" because they have window post caps on them. The windows aren't actually slanted. The bus I used to drive at work had those. I'm trying to find a set of those for my 1969 Crown actually.

To be continued...

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Love to read some informed opinions about these engines in Crown buses. I've heard quite a bit here about the 671 but not much about Cummins. How do they stack up against each other?

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Here are a couple of my personal thoughts on the different engines -

Cummins 220 w/ turbocharger, 262 horsepower:

This was a good engine in the 40-foot long Crown that I had. It had more than enough power to get it up and down hills, and it certainly didn't spare the horsies on flat land. It sounded great when you were driving down the street, but it sounded like an old semi truck when you were at an idle.

I never had a problem with it, but never, ever, ever let your batteries go dead.

Cummins 220 w/out turbocharger, 220 horsepower:

It was okay in the 35-foot long Crown, but it had its moments. Of course, my Cummins 220 was coupled to an ancient Fuller 4-spd. transmission, so that didn't help out the situation much.

It always ran, but it ran hot. I've noticed that the Cummins run much warmer than the Detroit Diesels. Whereas a Detroit could run anywhere from 140-170 degrees (there are some that are set at 190 also), a Cummins is usually well over 180 most of the time. Even though it's totally normal, I could never get used to that. It scared me a little.

Cummins 250 w/out turbocharger, 250 horsepower:

Like most Cummins, this one did not like the cold weather. Pull the compression release and get out that starter fluid.

It had good power, and it moved the 35-foot long Gillig along without any problems. It was a good climber and made it through those Northern California hills with ease.

671 Detroit Diesel w/out turbocharger, 218 horsepower:

THE MOST RELIABLE ENGINE I HAVE EVER SEEN.

The 671 Detroit Diesels will keep going, and going, and going, and going. I couldn't even begin to explain how much I love this engine in the Crowns.

Although it's not the fastest thing on the road, it will always get you up and down the hills. You might have to go up in 4th gear (on a 5-spd.) or 7th gear (on a 10-spd.), but it will always go. It cruises comfortably and QUIETLY at 65-70 MPH on the open road.

Mine is set to run at 170 degrees, and the needle never moves. Even going up the largest hill, it never heats up. That is one of the things that impressed me the most about it. I was very hesitant when I took the bus up and down the hills in Arizona and New Mexico, but it definitely proved itself to me.

And as for running in cold weather - that didn't even phase it. I had it in the 20-30 degree weather in Indiana, and it started right up and ran just as well as it does here in So. Calif.

I just got done taking it to San Bernardino and back yesterday, and it was a great day trip. I just got a new air cleaner, oil filter, oil change & lube and wow! It runs even better now.

I could go on and on about the Detroit Diesels, just like some other people here could go on and on about the Cummins or Internationals. But see, I've only owned one Crown with a Detroit Diesel in it. The other Crowns and one Gillig I've had were all Cummins. So you can't say that I'm biased that way, LOL.

Anyway, I hope that helps a little bit. I probably bored you, but it's hard for me to fit 4-5 years worth of experiences and troubles into a short post. I think both engines are sufficient for a Crown, but I definitely have my opinions on which ones are better.



Edited by - Buskid on 02/17/2002 10:21:29 AM

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Geez Buskid.....nobody can say you don't deliver! Thanks very much for taking the time. You've touched on this topic in other posts but I appreciate you giving a little more expanded version here. I figured since you had a 69 that a 67 couldn't be much different if at all unless it doesn't have power steering. That was interesting about the windows. I had seen your post looking for them and I was looking at a pic of your 69 trying to figure out what they were but I never could until now. Yeah I think they look cool with that forward sweeping look. They kinda look like a trim piece of sorts. I wonder what year that had them on? I think they look nicer than the straight posts. I'll check out that 67. Like I said, it couldn't be much if any different than your 69. I'd rather get something from the late 70"s though. Again, great info on those engines. Thanks again! I've been having kind of a hard time finding the right bus for me but I'm looking. I haven't been to Hysperia yet but thinking about it. A&A has been advertising a 73 with a 671 and a ten speed.

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I think the slanted window post caps have been available forever, hehe. I've seen some 1950s vintage Crowns with them. The 1982 Crown that I drove at work had them, and it looked very cool.

There shouldn't be any major differences between the 1967 and the 1969. A couple minor body details changed, but that's all. For example, the clearance lights will be different - the style changed in 1968. Also, 1969 was the year that the "locking" driver's side window became a standard thing, so earlier year models may or may not have them. But like I said, there shouldn't be any major differences. And I would be surprised if it didn't have at least power-assist steering.

A&A Enterprises in Glendale has been trying to sell those 10-spd. Crowns for a long time. I would be interested in hearing how much they'd like for them. I don't want one, but I know when they first listed them for sale, they wanted well over $5000.00. I'm just curious if they've dropped the price any over time.

If you ever decide to go out to Hesperia, let me know. Maybe I could show you my 1969 sometime if you're in the area. I need to go out to Hesperia & Victorville sometime anyway to look around.

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Hey, would those window pieces fit a Thomas by any chance? Hehehe j/k But I've always liked the transit type windows like that.

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Sorry, BusBoy, I don't think those slanted window post caps would work out too well on a Thomas Built Bus! Can't blame you for trying, though.

Crown Supercoach - The “Royalty” of Pupil Transportation

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Couple of Crowns on ebay right now. One was a former 49'ers fan bus the other a 69 in Fresno with supposedly a "recon" Cummins motor. I've always been leary of the word recon if ya know what I mean. Buskid thanks for the Hysperia offer. Very generous of you. Not sure when I'll make it up there but you'll be the first to know!

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Crown Supercoach - The “Royalty” of Pupil Transportation

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I like the new quote Buskid!!

Bob
(B. Busguy33)

"Blue Bird: Always flyin' high above the rest...
Blue Bird: One of America's Best!!! "

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I like the new quote Buskid!!

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Thanks, Bob. LOL, it came off of a 1967 Crown sales brochure.

Crown Supercoach - The “Royalty” of Pupil Transportation

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At the end of the day, all else being equal the Cummins climbs hills better.

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Better or faster?

On a "good" day, the bus that I drive at work will pull a hill in 8th gear (10 gears, 210 horsepower). And if my own 1969 Crown wasn't geared so darn low, it would go up with ease in 5th (5 gears, 218 horsepower).

Of course a Cummins will go up a little faster, (well, most will, some are just as pokey) but a Detroit Diesel will still get you there in one piece.

What's the RPM that your Fishie is governed at, Aaron? Is it 2150 RPM? I heard that's the typical setting for 671 Detroit Diesels, and I was just curious. I know that the district buses here are supposed to be set at that, but they aren't. They'll red line well over 2200 RPM.

Crown Supercoach - The “Royalty” of Pupil Transportation

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At the end of the day, all else being equal the Cummins climbs hills better.

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Better or faster?

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Love to read some informed opinions about these engines in Crown buses. I've heard quite a bit here about the 671 but not much about Cummins. How do they stack up against each other?

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hey Buskid....you said you wouldn't buy anything older than a 69. Curious.. Why is that? I just saw a 67 come up on trader. Is there any difference between these years? BTW, I liked the way the windows sweep forward on those Crowns. Cool! Also there is a tandem in AZ that came up too. Nice pic of it. Too big for me but thought you might like to take a look at it. I think it's listed under RV though and not truck.

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quote:

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hey Buskid....you said you wouldn't buy anything older than a 69. Curious.. Why is that? I just saw a 67 come up on trader. Is there any difference between these years? BTW, I liked the way the windows sweep forward on those Crowns. Cool! Also there is a tandem in AZ that came up too. Nice pic of it. Too big for me but thought you might like to take a look at it. I think it's listed under RV though and not truck.

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I did the old bus thing about two years ago - I bought a 1952 Crown from a private school up near San Jose. It wasn't a bad bus by any means, but I can't deal with something of that vintage right now - not unless I sunk a ton of money into it.

It had no power steering, a hard-to-shift 4-spd. manual transmission, a weird air brake system,... the list could go on. It was a beautiful bus both inside and out, but I had to put a brand new $1800.00 drive shaft into it before I even took it home with me. It still needs some suspension work done on it. And honestly, I couldn't see myself keeping it and driving it around unless I did a complete engine and transmission swap, not to mention somehow adding power steering and some other things on to it. (I know, by doing all of that work to it would be taking away its originality, but come on!)

I don't think a 1967 Crown would necessarily be a bad thing. If I saw one with my ideal engine, transmission and options for the right price, I'd probably buy it. But this last time around when I bought a bus, I tried to stay away from anything older than a 1969. I didn't want to put myself into the same position I had been in before. The 1969 Crown that I have now is perfect for my needs. It's old enough to be way cool, but it's new enough for me to feel totally comfortable with it.

The windows on that 1967 Crown for sale right now are like any other regular Crown window, by the way. They "sweep forward" because they have window post caps on them. The windows aren't actually slanted. The bus I used to drive at work had those. I'm trying to find a set of those for my 1969 Crown actually.

To be continued...

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by the way those are only window frame caps, they dont really look like that.

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Hey, that's what I said.

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Buskid might say the '52 had all that funky stuff on it but it was the FUNNEST old Crown ever to drive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE IT! hehehe
That bus might show up in a movie or tv show someday!! All the bus needs is front shocks and injector adjustments otherwise the bus is in excellent condition.

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Well, sure, it's all fun and games until you have to go out and buy an $1800.00 drive shaft. Hehe.

One of these days, when I own more than 0.00 acres of land, hopefully I'll be able to keep around a couple more older Crowns (and an ALF!) without even worrying about them. But until then, I have to watch what I buy because I only have two storage spaces. If storage and all of that wasn't an issue, I probably would've kept that bus around,... Even though I ended up getting hurt every time I tried to drive it. I would definitely NOT want that as a conversion if it had the original transmission still in it!

FYI - Newbus, Eric * has about three Crowns still for sale out in Hesperia. I went by his storage lot today, and I saw three in there. I think he had four the last time I went by there about a week ago, but maybe I just missed the fourth one or something.

Crown Supercoach - The “Royalty” of Pupil Transportation

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Thanks for letting me know. He's been advertising two or three on trader.com. I think they all have cummins motors. Not positive about that though. Did you check those Crowns out at all? I was thinking about heading up there this weekend if he's open on weekends. Wished I'd known you were going. I'd have liked to peruse his lot with ya. I've noticed A&A has just placed a few buses on trader with prices listed as a "blowout" sale. They never put prices on there. It's always "call for price". I think they must be looking to move some stock. They keep advertising that early 70's, 671, 10 spd. I'd prefer to not buy from a dealer but I may have to the way thing s are going. When I first got on this forum people were saying things that led me to believe there would be lots of them around but, when you really look especially compared to contemporary buses, there aren't that many of them available. Thanks for the update Kid!

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Hey again

I'm going out to Hesperia and Victorville again this coming Sunday (March 03). Let me know if you're going to be in the area. I think that Eric * will show you his buses just about any time. I think he lives nearby and just drives over to the storage lot whenever someone wants to look at one of the buses. I haven't seen his current stock up close and personal yet, so I also wouldn't mind going in there sometime to take a look around.

Let me know.

Crown Supercoach - The “Royalty” of Pupil Transportation

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I can make it up there sunday. Just let me know when you are going to be there and I can meet you there. I'll call * and set it up with him (unless you want to). If everything goes accordingly I'll be there on time for sure waitin' for ya. If all he has is cummins powered Crowns I don't know if I want one of those cause I think I'd rather have a 671. Might be worth it anyway. At least I'd get to meet the infamous Buskid! That alone would be worth the ride! Hehe..

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Cool. I'll e-mail you later on to let you know when I'll be up there. I have to meet with a realtor earlier on Sunday to look at a new house, but after I do that, I'll be free.

I hope Eric * will be around and able to show the buses. Maybe he'd let us take one out for a test drive, LOL. I think he still has one of the 10-speeds for sale. And I'm pretty sure they all have Cummins in them.

There are a couple other older Crowns including a 1972 that a church school owns & some old Victor Elementary School District ones sitting around up there. Even though they're not for sale, I can still show them to you if you'd like.

Talk to you later.

Crown Supercoach - The “Royalty” of Pupil Transportation