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bwest
Administrator

United States
2233 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2012 :  10:41:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I got to drive a new BB Propane today. It runs out pretty good. The salesman say that it's getting about 8 mpg on the hyway.

Fastback
Top Member

938 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2012 :  11:03:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

The salesman say that it's getting about 8 mpg on the hyway.



The BS meter is pegged

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2233 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2012 :  11:49:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This guy has always been straight with me. He told me the one we own got 5.5 and it does, but that's on the hyway, it gets 4.5 on the route. So I think this thing will get 7 on the route. He also told me it priced out about $2k less than a diesel. I'll have to see some hard numbers to believe him on that one. Although his word has been good, he just acted like he wasn't really sure on it. I should be hearing something next week on a price for sure. You guys know I'm sold on these things but if they are priced the same or a bit less than a diesel we're talking a whole new ball game.

This is my edit: By the way, we just paid $1.35 off the truck for propane and the federal 50 cent credit is no longer available.

That makes the cost per mile for fuel at about 20 cents.

Bryan

Edited by - bwest on 09/13/2012 11:51:47 AM
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Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2177 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2012 :  12:03:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
West ya think they are running this on on propane?

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Fastback
Top Member

938 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2012 :  12:48:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

This guy has always been straight with me. He told me the one we own got 5.5 and it does, but that's on the hyway, it gets 4.5 on the route. So I think this thing will get 7 on the route.


Your current 4.5 mpg unit would literally have to have unburned propane coming out the tailpipe inorder for a new similar sized unit to get a 55% increase in fuel mileage to 7 mpg on the same route. My money would be on no more than 10% better mileage, still under 5 mpg on the route.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 09/14/2012 06:08:00 AM
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2233 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2012 :  06:57:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

quote:
Originally posted by bwest

This guy has always been straight with me. He told me the one we own got 5.5 and it does, but that's on the hyway, it gets 4.5 on the route. So I think this thing will get 7 on the route.


Your current 4.5 mpg unit would literally have to have unburned propane coming out the tailpipe inorder for a new similar sized unit to get a 55% increase in fuel mileage to 7 mpg on the same route. My money would be on no more than 10% better mileage, still under 5 mpg on the route.



Time will tell, my friend, time will tell. It's not a mater of if, just a matter of when we get our next propane bus. Looking at an EPA rebate program now that is suppose to cover part of the initial purchase.

Wolf, I saw that on Facebook the other day. I have it as my wallpaper on my home computer. I can't get the thing posted as wall paper here at school. Tech guy has been having problems with server. So I think that may be part of the issue. Anyway, I like the bird and strip below the window. It's a neat touch that only school bus guys and gals would appreciate.

Bryan
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bluebirdvision
Top Member

USA
991 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2012 :  08:21:55 AM  Show Profile  Click to see bluebirdvision's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I'm supposed to test drive one in the coming weeks, which will be the 1st bus I have ever driven....

Shane Kirley
New York Bus Sales Delivery Driver. (I know its not much, but its a start)


Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_212311114614&ap=1


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Schoolbus56
Senior Member

United States
128 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2012 :  09:07:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow. 8! Hmm.

wow.
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RD9000
Senior Member

72 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2012 :  2:33:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That Blue Bird race car is awesome! Two of my loves- Blue Birds and Ford Mustangs! I heard someone on the Blue Bird Wanderlodge forum talking about the Blue Bird sponsored nascar. It was at an RV rally.
I had noticed about the propane powered school bus on Blue Bird's website. Propane is a great alternative fuel as well as CNG. CNG in particular is becoming more and more popular in Oklahoma. My only irritation is the high cost. New vehicles should not have a huge price increase over gasoline and diesel models. Conversion is not really that big of a deal, but I'm afraid that everybody has done their best to get their money-grubbing hands in the pot! I have always heard from people who have taken apart propane and cng powered engines that they are extremely clean as opposed to their gasoline counterparts. Mileage aside, prices for natural gas are beating the tar out of gas and diesel. It will only be when we help reduce demand for gasoline and diesel that OPEC and the oil and gas companies will begin to reduce their greedy pricing.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2233 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2012 :  08:10:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Schoolbus56

Wow. 8! Hmm.


That's what the man said and I have no reason to doubt him. Now, you know as well as I do that it won't get that on the route. The route, of course, is where my miles are put on.

Bryan
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Fastback
Top Member

938 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2012 :  08:32:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

quote:
Originally posted by Schoolbus56

Wow. 8! Hmm.


That's what the man said and I have no reason to doubt him. Now, you know as well as I do that it won't get that on the route. The route, of course, is where my miles are put on.



Is this the same salesman that told you "one side or the other of 7" mpg for your current bus as you stated in April 2011?

"As for MPG my buses are getting somewhere around 7. This bus has about 11,000 miles on it and the salesman said it was one side or the other of 7. The spec sheet says 6.6. Time will tell what it gets on the route. I will be disipointed if it doesn't get over 6."


Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2233 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2012 :  08:48:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I don't remember saying that but I don't have any reason to doubt you. However, I might be disappointed with the mileage on the current bus, I can not be disappointed with the cost per mile. As you quoted me before, Time Will Tell! BTW, what do you have against propane and saving your company/ district money?

Edit: I want to also say I am not trying to misrepresent the truth. I guess if the salesman said 7 and not the 5.5 I remember then that's my mistake. I need to go back to my notes to see what I put down there. Thanks for pointing this out.

Bryan

Edited by - bwest on 09/17/2012 08:52:07 AM
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Fastback
Top Member

938 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2012 :  09:06:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bwest

Well, I don't remember saying that but I don't have any reason to doubt you. However, I might be disappointed with the mileage on the current bus, I can not be disappointed with the cost per mile. As you quoted me before, Time Will Tell! BTW, what do you have against propane and saving your company/ district money?




You can search the topic "Propane Bus" and find it.

Just a few key strokes and you can find state bid hard numbers for a new basic 65 passenger Vision diesel bus of $74,979. And a new 65 passenger Vision propane bus, same equipment, $83,479 an upcharge of $8500!!!

And for the record I don't have anything against saving my district money.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 09/17/2012 09:09:54 AM
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2233 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2012 :  10:32:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK, you win. Propane is bad and IC buses are good. I think I'll call my IC salesman today and hear all the good news he has for me.

Bryan
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Schoolbus56
Senior Member

United States
128 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2012 :  3:55:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So I guess the 8-10 MPG I can get on my route buses is terrible then?

wow.
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Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2177 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2012 :  09:36:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Schoolbus56

So I guess the 8-10 MPG I can get on my route buses is terrible then?




Engine data in my Cummins buses says I'm in that range. Will mileage ever improve on a school bus?

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2233 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2012 :  2:08:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cents per mile guys, cents per mile.

Bryan
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RD9000
Senior Member

72 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2012 :  3:03:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was driving through Oklahoma City yesterday and happened to catch sight of a school bus at one of our U-Haul dealers. I thought it strange, but thought maybe it was an old school bus being used to move and perhaps they were picking up a trailer. Then I realized it was a new Blue Bird Vision filling up with propane! It was a sharp looking bus on its way to El Paso ISD. I guess it must have been one of the only places their gps led them to for propane.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2233 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2012 :  08:07:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RD9000

I was driving through Oklahoma City yesterday and happened to catch sight of a school bus at one of our U-Haul dealers. I thought it strange, but thought maybe it was an old school bus being used to move and perhaps they were picking up a trailer. Then I realized it was a new Blue Bird Vision filling up with propane! It was a sharp looking bus on its way to El Paso ISD. I guess it must have been one of the only places their gps led them to for propane.



That's one of the problems we have today. There are few places to fill up on an extended trip. Any propane company can fill them if you can catch them there (most close at 4 to 5 pm) Fortunately our district takes few long trips and with the larger tank on the new Roush version I don't think we will have to fill up when going to Six Flags Over Mid-America anyway.

Bryan
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C2FAN
Senior Member

United States
95 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2012 :  08:22:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know if this is a factor is your fleet bwest but are you taking into account trade in value when considering your cost savings? I have experience with CNG, not only are the buses more expensive at the initial purchase but they are only worth scrap value when you go to trade them in.

Also, I could see 8 mpg on an SCR equipped bus but 8mpg on a propane bus sounds like a pretty tall tail! The local Blue Bird guys are tell us to expect 5mpg at the very best and that 4mpg is a more realistic number.
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Fastback
Top Member

938 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2012 :  09:21:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
New State bid price on Bluebird Propane option now $8611 over the price of a 200 HP Cummins, up from $8500 last year.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 11/09/2012 09:22:47 AM
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2233 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2012 :  11:07:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by C2FAN

I don't know if this is a factor is your fleet bwest but are you taking into account trade in value when considering your cost savings? I have experience with CNG, not only are the buses more expensive at the initial purchase but they are only worth scrap value when you go to trade them in.

Also, I could see 8 mpg on an SCR equipped bus but 8mpg on a propane bus sounds like a pretty tall tail! The local Blue Bird guys are tell us to expect 5mpg at the very best and that 4mpg is a more realistic number.



I already get 4.5 mpg or 24 cents per mile on the Clean Fuel version. The Roush version with the Ford transmission has to get better fuel mileage. My experience has been that the Allison transmission is part of the problem with the fuel mileage on these 8.1s. Trade in doesn't matter to us anyway. The last diesel we traded we got 4k, I can't imagine getting any less for a propane. I am thinking if this catches on the trade in value will be better on down the road too. Plus I think with re-electing this president we will be getting more money from the feds for this type thing. Disclaimer here; I was not for the current occupant of our White House. I do not believe in redistribution. That being said, it may be the policies of this president that get this into the mainstream. I believe propane is a much better alternative fuel than any out there. If all things are fair propane will win out. But with these people in Washington, all things are not always fair. And I think that part of it might get even worse. Sorry for the political stuff there but I'm pretty sore right now with all that. I know that sounds like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth but there is more to a propane than fuel mileage and initial cost. Think about all the extra components on a new diesel engine. That stuff is not on a propane. That alone sells these things to me.

Bryan
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