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 Tricks for IC...red warning lights flashing early?
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1983ChevroletWayne
Senior Member

Canada
165 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2012 :  07:19:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey guys,

I have a new 2013 IC/CE this year and we use the steering wheel controls for the lights and the door. Is there any way I can get my red lights to come on when I'm not 100% stopped? I'm thinking that I'm not going to get that satisfaction!...lol

I went from an 01' Blue bird/INT that had a manual door system and always liked to have that option to crack the door a bit early if need be.

Thanks!



Mechan1c
Top Member

USA
699 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2012 :  11:36:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"Is there any way I can get my red lights to come on when I'm not 100% stopped?"


Nope...
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3361 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2012 :  12:31:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unless you spec'ed the emergency override switch like we are required to have here in Ohio. It cancels out anything and everything and forces the reds on, no matter what. Well okay, if the bus is on fire and the wiring is all shorting out, then maybe it wouldn't work.

"cracking the door" is generally a prohibited action anyways, reds are for when you are stopped.
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member

USA
4170 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2012 :  5:30:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thomas Ford 85-16's Homepage  Send Thomas Ford 85-16 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
My thought was that the "override" switch was standard on IC CEs. Michigan does not spec it or specifically allow it, but the one IC CE I drove for a route had the override switch on the steering wheel. It was the right hand button, can't remember it if was up or down. It was a frustrating switch though... Above 2 mph, pressing it would cancel your ambers...surprise! Only when you are crawling would it swtich amber to red.

Here is a topic where this was discussed in the past:
http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18285

Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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Trailboss
Senior Member

United States
149 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2012 :  03:09:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ambers are for when you are slowing down reds should only be used after you have stopped.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2347 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2012 :  06:45:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Trailboss

Ambers are for when you are slowing down reds should only be used after you have stopped.



I'll second that! I have a couple drivers who want to "crack" their door switch before they stop. Drives me crazy! Dog Gone, have some sympathy for the oncoming driver who is trying to figure out what your doing. I don't often get out of our district during bus time but when I do it is a chore to figure out exactly where a school bus is going to stop when you see the amber lights. I can't imagine what it must be like to see a bus, still moving, with the red lights on. So if a bus passes me (as a driver of a car) while I'm stopped, with its red lights on, who gets the ticket?

Bryan
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3361 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2012 :  10:16:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Ford 85-16

My thought was that the "override" switch was standard on IC CEs. Michigan does not spec it or specifically allow it, but the one IC CE I drove for a route had the override switch on the steering wheel. It was the right hand button, can't remember it if was up or down. It was a frustrating switch though... Above 2 mph, pressing it would cancel your ambers...surprise! Only when you are crawling would it swtich amber to red.

Here is a topic where this was discussed in the past:
http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18285



We have a very specific requirement that it be a red switch, supposed to be away from the rest (most aren't), has to say "Emergency Warning Lights" (most don't), but it IS checked by the patrol to verify that it run the red flashers in all circumstances.
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bus724
Top Member

USA
1609 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2012 :  2:13:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit bus724's Homepage  Send bus724 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
If a car isn't going to stop, putting the reds on earlier isn't going to do anything. Red lights don't stop cars, they only direct responsible drivers to stop. It can be very frustrating, but a lot of times there's nothing you can do. Just make sure you're doing your own job right - follow your state's procedure on how/when to use the lights (if you can get a plate number, there's a better chance of someone getting a ticket if you did everything by the book), and keep the kids out of the road until you're sure everyone has stopped.

Having said that, I'm surprised IC still programs the switches so that the ambers just cancel if you hit the override switch too soon. It's very dangerous to have the lights shut off completely when the driver thinks the reds are on. They should at least make it beep the way it does if you hit the door switch while moving.
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Schoolbus56
Senior Member

United States
128 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2012 :  3:53:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you order the non steering wheel switches the lights come on early and the door opens while the bus is moving.

wow.
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Trailboss
Senior Member

United States
149 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2012 :  10:25:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The door can only come open if you open it or press the button to open the door. I have been in this business for 35 years and never seen a bus that the lights come on and the door automaticaly opens when the bus slows down someone has to do it. Of course I don't know what state you are in and what the laws are for your state.Of those 88,000 stop arm violations that was reported it makes me wander how many drivers turned on the reds in front of the vehicle and caused them to run there reds and reported it as a violation. You have to give the traffic time to stop and not open the door until it does stop.
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jeepcjron
Advanced Member

USA
259 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2012 :  10:47:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The red lights trigger off the door output. The doors wont open until 2 mph or less. So the answer is no without a programing change. Not only that the law is stop on red so if you turn them on keep rolling you would be passing the oncoming trafic if they stopped.

its like a slinky! useless but fun to watch.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3361 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2012 :  12:08:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I say this as a supervisor: If you don't want to follow your state's regulations for the operation of your bus, you need to find another line of work.
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Revitup6k
New Member

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2012 :  6:22:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
International Body Builder.... there's a parameter in there for the maximum speed the bus can be traveling for the door to be allowed to open (in turn, activating the reds), I know on the 2010 I was in on Friday, ours are set at 2mph.

Master School Bus Tech
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Revitup6k
New Member

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2012 :  6:31:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
International Body Builder.... there's a parameter in there for the maximum speed the bus can be traveling for the door to be allowed to open (in turn, activating the reds), I know on the 2010 I was in on Friday, ours are set at 2mph.

Master School Bus Tech
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1983ChevroletWayne
Senior Member

Canada
165 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2012 :  07:09:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24

Unless you spec'ed the emergency override switch like we are required to have here in Ohio. It cancels out anything and everything and forces the reds on, no matter what. Well okay, if the bus is on fire and the wiring is all shorting out, then maybe it wouldn't work.

"cracking the door" is generally a prohibited action anyways, reds are for when you are stopped.




Exactly, Thank you. That was my question. If there were an "emergency situation" and those red lights had to come on, then we should be able to if need be. I've been driving for quite awhile and realize we can't be turning red lights on when we are moving to load & unload children. That is just common sense.

My main question here was just asking if we needed to "crack the door early", was there a trick for them to come on in an emergency situation?

Sorry to light such a heated debate on rules and regulations. That was not the intent.

Formerly "83ChevroletWayne"



Pic courtesy of: "schoolbusdriver.org"
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Trailboss
Senior Member

United States
149 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2012 :  03:18:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Give me an example of an emergency situation that you would need your reds on while not being stopped. You have your hazard lights that should be used for breakdowns and put out your triangle reflectors. The bus is not an emergency vehicle that you can turn on the red lights and have the right of way.
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member

USA
4170 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2012 :  4:41:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thomas Ford 85-16's Homepage  Send Thomas Ford 85-16 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Example: approaching a bus stop with yellows flashing and a child runs out into the road to catch a ball someone threw to him. My bus was blocking the view for traffic behind me, so switching the lights to red discouraged them from overtaking me (needless to say I came to a quick stop as well, but not before I needed the lights to be red). Happened to me, and I'm sure other people before!

I really dislike a lot of the modern interlocks because they tie your hands in unique situations like that.

Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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Fastback
Top Member

991 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2012 :  04:43:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Ford 85-16

Example: approaching a bus stop with yellows flashing and a child runs out into the road to catch a ball someone threw to him. My bus was blocking the view for traffic behind me, so switching the lights to red discouraged them from overtaking me (needless to say I came to a quick stop as well, but not before I needed the lights to be red). Happened to me, and I'm sure other people before!

I really dislike a lot of the modern interlocks because they tie your hands in unique situations like that.



Don't know about other states but in Iowa it is unlawful to overtake a bus when lights are flashing, ambers or red it doesn't matter. The wording "UNLAWFUL TO PASS WHEN LIGHTS FLASH" is on the back of every Iowa school bus.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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Trailboss
Senior Member

United States
149 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2012 :  11:56:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know your best intersest is for the students at the bus stop and on the bus. The students were lucky that you were alert and able to stop however how many times did that ball go into the street before you arrived. What if that was a semi that does not have red lights and could not get stopped in time. Your issue isn't haveing your red lights to come on in an emergency it is supervision and training at the bus stop even before you arrive.
I had a driver stopping at cross walks and turning on his red lights to allow the pedestrians to cross. Had to tell him he could not do that.
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member

USA
4170 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2012 :  6:57:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thomas Ford 85-16's Homepage  Send Thomas Ford 85-16 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately the area had very little support as far as school administrators go and discipline through write-ups regarding bad bus stop behavior rarely got corrected. To Fastback's question, Michigan law does not provide direction for motorists as far as what to do for amber flashing lights. Our law states simply that you must not pass a stopped school bus flashing red lights. So, though stupid and unsafe, it would not be illegal for someone to overtake a bus flashing yellow overhead lights. I have a feeling many states are like that.
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Fastback
Top Member

991 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2012 :  05:30:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"Our law states simply that you must not pass a stopped school bus flashing red lights."

If so why does your state even have an 8 light warning system on the buses? They just as well save some money and go back to just 4 red lights.

The below is from the Iowa drivers manual;

"School Buses
When you meet an oncoming school bus displaying flashing amber lights, you must slow down to no more than 20 mph and be prepared to stop. If the red lights are flashing or if the stop arm is out, you must come to a complete stop at least 15 feet from the bus. You must remain stopped as long as the red lights flash or the stop arm is out.
The only exception to this is where you are approaching the bus from the opposite direction on a road with at least two lanes in each direction.
When overtaking a school bus, you may not pass when red or amber warning lights are flashing."

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
397 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2012 :  05:33:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Ford 85-16

Unfortunately the area had very little support as far as school administrators go and discipline through write-ups regarding bad bus stop behavior rarely got corrected. To Fastback's question, Michigan law does not provide direction for motorists as far as what to do for amber flashing lights. Our law states simply that you must not pass a stopped school bus flashing red lights. So, though stupid and unsafe, it would not be illegal for someone to overtake a bus flashing yellow overhead lights. I have a feeling many states are like that.



I assumed the Mi law stated that cars are suppose to speed up when amber's flash(lmao), at least that what it seems most people do, It is like how many people speed up on yellow turning to red traffic signal instead of slowing and preparing to stop!
It's to bad all state laws aren't written the same or similar to what fastback says Iowas is. IMO sounds like its worded better.
I might be wrong but think MI just says it's illegal to pass on red, more or less says if flashing amber it ok to go around them, correct me if I am wrong. so it seems alot of people speed up to get by bus before reds come on up here.

Edited by - slippert on 11/30/2012 05:38:52 AM
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Fastback
Top Member

991 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2012 :  06:13:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Its no wonder then that bus drivers would sometimes feel the need to get the reds a bit early in your state.


Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 11/30/2012 06:14:49 AM
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Trailboss
Senior Member

United States
149 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  03:39:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In Oklahoma our Manual says "The bus driver must follow proper procedures to adequately warn traffic of their intentions,and allow the motorist time and space to bring their vehicle to a complete stop when red loading lights are displayed. Motorist cannot be expected to stop for a bus picking up or discharging passengers unless the selection of the bus stop area assures traffic will afford them the time and distance to bring their vehicles to complete and safe stop."
"The drivers of a vehicle meeting or overtaking a school bus that is stopped to take on or discharge children, and on which the red loading signals are in operation, is to stop his vehicle before it reaches the school bus and not pporceed until the signals are deactivated, and then proceed past such school bus at a speed which is reasonable and with due caution for the safety of such school children and other occupants."(47O.S./11-705
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
397 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  09:20:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We have to follow certain steps for student p.u. here also. amber's must activate so many ft before stop and reds come on too. So motorist have time to slow and stop, just don't think, (and again I may be wrong) there is any clear wording on passing a bus with ambers flashing. if there is a lot of people are unaware of it!
Common sense tells me if a bus has ambers on that I need to be stopping for it as the reds will be on shortly after, can't tell you the # of times I have been the first car in a line waiting for a bus that has ambers on is now stopped and know the reds will be coming on only to have the person behind me blowing his horn like their pissed off I stopped for it!lol.

Edited by - slippert on 12/03/2012 09:24:50 AM
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dwight
Active Member

USA
42 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2012 :  9:21:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[slippert] - - Please explain! Why is the school bus stopped with the amber lights flashing and the red lights have not been activated. Is the bus stopped in the traffic lane of the highway?

20 SCHOOL BUS FLEET OWNER/OPERATOR (Retired)
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Trailboss
Senior Member

United States
149 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2012 :  03:32:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes your ambers can be on while stopped to pick up students you must make a traffic check to see that the traffic is slowing and stopping for you, then you acctivate the red lights to pick up the students.I have been driving for almost 40 years and have had very few drivers run my red lights because i give them a chance to stop and not just turn my reds on in front of a car and expect them to stop on a dime. I believe out of the 88,000 stop arm violations that a lot of them were caused buy the bus driver not giving the traffic enough time to get stopped but thats just my opinion.
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
397 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2012 :  04:44:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dwight

[slippert] - - Please explain! Why is the school bus stopped with the amber lights flashing and the red lights have not been activated. Is the bus stopped in the traffic lane of the highway?


My supervisor has always told us the law says we are not suppose to stop traffic flow til students are at bus and ready to load, so There are many times when the bus has stopped and lil johnnie or betty isn't there ready to board. so ambers flash til they are at door or at road side ready to cross, depending on which side of road they live on. also kids can't cross main highways so would always be picked up on right side of bus.
That seems to happen a lot around here, where bus is stopped and ambers flashing then you see kids coming from a house at the end of a 500ft driveway. a lot of times ambers are only on for mere seconds but people up here are in such a hurry to get somewhere be it work or play, they can't be taking the time to wait for a bus picking up kids it seems.
Hope this explains some what
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
397 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2012 :  04:50:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Trailboss

Yes your ambers can be on while stopped to pick up students you must make a traffic check to see that the traffic is slowing and stopping for you, then you acctivate the red lights to pick up the students.I have been driving for almost 40 years and have had very few drivers run my red lights because i give them a chance to stop and not just turn my reds on in front of a car and expect them to stop on a dime. I believe out of the 88,000 stop arm violations that a lot of them were caused buy the bus driver not giving the traffic enough time to get stopped but thats just my opinion.


I agree with you on this TB^^^above,

personally I think 4 way reds worked just as good at least when traffic saw them they knew to stop, here the way it is with 8-ways they see them and try to get passed them before reds come on, just MyOp
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FrankP
Senior Member

53 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2012 :  1:52:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit FrankP's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's strange seeing opposition to "cracking the door". Here in Mass., that's what we are trained to do! (on drop-offs only). Ambers at 100 feet, reds at 25.
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Trailboss
Senior Member

United States
149 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2012 :  03:10:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How can you give the traffic a chance to stop when your traveling down the road even only 25 feet with your red lights already on. The traffic coming at you does not know exactly where your going to come to a stop. A car may stop for you and you drive on past it to your stop.Then do you report the car for running your red lights if they go on after you drive by them.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3361 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2012 :  03:43:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FrankP

It's strange seeing opposition to "cracking the door". Here in Mass., that's what we are trained to do! (on drop-offs only). Ambers at 100 feet, reds at 25.



Unreal. Why would anybody knowingly want to drive a bus, with kids on board, with the door not fully secured in the closed position. Too much potential liability there.
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slippert
Advanced Member

USA
397 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2012 :  12:47:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unreal. Why would anybody knowingly want to drive a bus, with kids on board, with the door not fully secured in the closed position. Too much potential liability there.

Not disagreeing with your point!^^^I feel the same. just....sayin,
with some of the posts on here about the certain entrance doors can you say "fully secured" is possible on every bus?
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