Read about the Great Fleets Across America
Subscribe

School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums
School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
 All Forums
 Professional Garage
 Enter Forum: Professional Garage
 IC CE 200 electrical problems
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

bwest
Administrator

United States
2268 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2010 :  11:18:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have two of these things made 5/05. One has the clearance lights coming on anytime of the day or night when the key is off. The only way to get them to go off is to turn the key on then off and your good to go.

The other bus is the same year (twin sister I call it) and it has the 8-way red lights come on anytime of the day or night with the key off. The only way to get it to go off is to, again turn the key on then off.

I think I have ask about the first one on here before but I could not find the thread in the archives. None the less, I am hoping someone can steer me in the proper direction. No, junking the bus is not an option. You all know me I just dispise these machines so that may to playing in my head too. I am currently looking through the 1000 plus pages I printed off for a repair manual!!

grandyc
Active Member

United States
47 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2010 :  12:45:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit grandyc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I had a CE 300 doing the same thing with the stop arms and it didn't matter if the key was on or off. The problem ended up being water inside the relay that controlled the stop arms.The only other problem I had was Identifying the correct relay because the wire schematic on the inside of the electrical panel was marked wrong. I eventually found it by tracing the wire number back to the relay.
Go to Top of Page

IBTMech
Top Member

USA
973 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2010 :  6:28:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit IBTMech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Any body controller codes? Does the '05 use the body controller?

I have two '04s with basic multiplex and two '06s with fully multiplexed systems. What does the '05 use?

If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years.
Go to Top of Page

BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
218 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2010 :  6:28:50 PM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Bwest, we have some of the same problems on the BE200 buses. Be sure that panel door seals good. We are beginning to experience problems, I think they have a TSB out on it, but I wonder if IC is planning on taking any action as far as repairing electrical problems due to their faulty door adjustment. I doubt it.

We have had the 8 way load lights come on for no reason and the stop arm not swing out. We have had the leave no child behind alarm work wrong. The small relays above

I have one just today the has problems much like a loose ground. Except it affects everything including dash and fuel gauge and idiot lights. Intermittent. Oh, and cannot get the dash to give me any codes with the cruise button method. Of course it might just cause more confusion at this point :)

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
Go to Top of Page

raytobe
Advanced Member

USA
279 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2010 :  5:54:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit raytobe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
As I mentioned in another thread, I had problems with the door sealing as well. Got it as tight as I could and even doubled up on the weather stripping. Still was getting water inside. Turns out it gets in through the latch itself. Hard blowing rain just goes right in. Put a drop light up to the latch on the outside and look how the light shines in on the other side.
Go to Top of Page

BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
218 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2010 :  10:41:25 AM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Thanks,Raytobe, I'll check that on ours, it has gotta be the same. I'm learning a lot here, glad I joined for sure.

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
2268 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2010 :  05:17:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I tighened the latch to seal the door on our two new ones. One of them has been coming open wile on the route. When I looked at it I found the latch bent where you push it in to here th click. I still haven't found my electrical problem on the 8-ways. Getting by for now by making sure the master is turned off but it still wants to come on wile the bus is on. I'll keep everyone posted when progress comes.
B.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

956 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2010 :  05:42:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah theres a limit on how much you can tighten up those latches as they will bend and fail to stay latched. I have carefully straightened them before using an end wrench or swapped the bent ones with the ones used on the bus interior.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
Go to Top of Page

JustinB
Advanced Member

United States
490 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2010 :  05:47:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The door position circuit may be giving the computer a false input.
If you have water intrusion into the side electrical door, you may be facing some corrosion induced resistance issues. This is what gives you false or ghost issues.Time to statrt cleaning contacts & coating things with dielectric grease.

I may not know the answer but I can usually find who does.
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
2268 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2010 :  08:32:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK, thanks for that. Now the one with the 8-ways coming on came in and said now when he presses the start button on the steering wheel sometimes the 8-ways don't start. Same problem you think or different. And I was wondering if all this could be related to a problem in the steering wheel. Thanks.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

turbine
Active Member

United States
47 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2010 :  09:05:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok let me throw one of my electrical problems in this thread is might fit. I have a 08 IC that the no child left behind alarm resets itself. After activating the 8 ways and opening and closeing the pass door turn the bus off the lights flash 4 times the dash beeps 4 times and the system resets without going near the rear door handle. the rear door buzzer works ok we found a pinched w wire back at the rear door switch but not the problem.
Any ideas out there?
Thanks.
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

956 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2010 :  09:13:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by turbine

Ok let me throw one of my electrical problems in this thread is might fit. I have a 08 IC that the no child left behind alarm resets itself. After activating the 8 ways and opening and closeing the pass door turn the bus off the lights flash 4 times the dash beeps 4 times and the system resets without going near the rear door handle. the rear door buzzer works ok we found a pinched w wire back at the rear door switch but not the problem.
Any ideas out there?
Thanks.




Has it done this since new or is it a recent development? A consistant 4 time beep and flash every time makes me wonder if your bus isn't programmed to operate this way.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
Go to Top of Page

turbine
Active Member

United States
47 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2010 :  09:59:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The driver reports that this is a new devlopment. The child check system on this bus like our other IC busses so equipped has in the past required the driver to go to the back of the bus lift and lower the e-exit door handle for it to reset.
But I have a call in to the IC bus dealer answer tech to check and see if this coud be a programming fix.

thanks
Go to Top of Page

Fastback
Top Member

956 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2010 :  11:43:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by turbine

The driver reports that this is a new devlopment. The child check system on this bus like our other IC busses so equipped has in the past required the driver to go to the back of the bus lift and lower the e-exit door handle for it to reset.
But I have a call in to the IC bus dealer answer tech to check and see if this coud be a programming fix.

thanks




Maybe a default strategy programmed in if there is a problem in the system?? Certainly would be better than trying to drive it anywhere with the horn honking and lights flashing

Maybe remove the rearmost courtesy light bar and look for any loose wiring connectors?

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 09/14/2010 11:46:25 AM
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
2268 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2010 :  12:18:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd like to find a way to disconnect mine. I have one from Homebound that works much better than this garbage from IC.

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

ICBUSMAN
New Member

Canada
3 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2010 :  08:02:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Deactivating the 'No Child left behind' system on the IC bus has to be done by a technician with a laptop who can access the mutliplexing and switch off the option. It cannot be 'Disconnected'
It is also unlikely that the two electrical issues here are caused by the same problem, The clearance lights and 8-way warning lights should be independent from each other.
Go to Top of Page

turbine
Active Member

United States
47 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2010 :  05:21:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The headlights flash normaly when reseting the NCLB system on properley functioning IC bus.
The clearence lights and 8 way lights are functioning normaly and not a problem.
The problem is that after useing the bus normaly to pick up students then returning to the bus yard the NCLB system seems to reset by its self without the driver doing any action other than shuting off the ingition switch. The dash beeps 4x and the Headlights flash 4x and thats it the system deactivates.
This system works ok in the other IC busses we have so I want to fix it Not disconnect it.


thanks.
Go to Top of Page

VisionTech
New Member

1 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  09:01:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit VisionTech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Say, turbine, I know it's been a long time since your post about the NCLB alarm problem, but I am having exactly the same issue. Did you ever get a resolution to yours? Let me , please!
Go to Top of Page

CISDbusman
Senior Member

153 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2011 :  08:04:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

Yeah theres a limit on how much you can tighten up those latches as they will bend and fail to stay latched. I have carefully straightened them before using an end wrench or swapped the bent ones with the ones used on the bus interior.



I straighten mine then tap the center casting to 1/4" and drill a hole in the latch handle and secure with a 1/4" screw. Keeps the latch from rebending over time. So far so good. That big door needs two or even three latches on it make it seal tight. An inside splash panel might not be a bad idea either.

I have also had a water intrusion issue but mine has effected only the two main solenoids. Water was getting in them and then freezing them solid over night. I removed them, dried em out and then sprayed em down heavily with some spray rubber coating and have had no further issue.

Now for my latest NCLB issue. Mine has quite beeping on the dash when engauging the park brake or after a route when it alerts you to deactivate the NCLB. May be as simple as a bad buzzer but I thought I would ask anyways while I was here.

Thanks all!!

Edited by - CISDbusman on 11/14/2011 08:07:37 AM
Go to Top of Page

CISDbusman
Senior Member

153 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2011 :  09:43:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CISDbusman

quote:
Originally posted by Fastback

Yeah theres a limit on how much you can tighten up those latches as they will bend and fail to stay latched. I have carefully straightened them before using an end wrench or swapped the bent ones with the ones used on the bus interior.



I straighten mine then tap the center casting to 1/4" and drill a hole in the latch handle and secure with a 1/4" screw. Keeps the latch from rebending over time. So far so good. That big door needs two or even three latches on it make it seal tight. An inside splash panel might not be a bad idea either.

I have also had a water intrusion issue but mine has effected only the two main solenoids. Water was getting in them and then freezing them solid over night. I removed them, dried em out and then sprayed em down heavily with some spray rubber coating and have had no further issue.

Now for my latest NCLB issue. Mine has quite beeping on the dash when engauging the park brake or after a route when it alerts you to deactivate the NCLB. May be as simple as a bad buzzer but I thought I would ask anyways while I was here.

Thanks all!!



Just a bad beeper assy. Should have one in Wichita Falls in the moning. Why couldnt they have mounted this somewhere other than to bury it in the gauge cluster. Ugh!!

Thanks!!!
Go to Top of Page

slippert
Advanced Member

USA
376 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2011 :  10:00:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If your NCLB buzzer doesn't work or for park brake then, it probably doesn't work for low OP or low air pressure either unless it's Hydraulic brake? Anyway, If it's like my IC 2005's and newer there's a cheap little buzzer mounted in the back lower left corner of the Gage cluster. On mine it's the only one and it beeps for all functions that require a beep. I've had to replace alot of them some while still in warr and some not. I called the buzzer cheap but it's fairly pricey. Basically you have to pull Gage cluster out of bus and remove rear tin cover to replace it. really not that bad of a job though.

Mine I could always hear a noise or clicking sound coming from dash even though there was no beep you had to listen close but it was there. That told me the buzzer was bad as it was still trying to work.

Edited by - slippert on 11/14/2011 10:40:24 AM
Go to Top of Page

bluebirdvision
Top Member

USA
992 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2011 :  5:38:18 PM  Show Profile  Click to see bluebirdvision's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Has anyone else had a problem with 2005 CEs not keeping the mileage correctly. Meaning, one day you might make a 78 mile trip, and the next day (driving the same route) it might be a 70 or 85 mile trip? My district replaced an entire cluster on one of them. It used to be an issue on the 3800s too.

Shane Kirley
New York Bus Sales Delivery Driver. (I know its not much, but its a start)


Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_212311114614&ap=1


Go to Top of Page

CISDbusman
Senior Member

153 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2011 :  10:50:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slippert

If your NCLB buzzer doesn't work or for park brake then, it probably doesn't work for low OP or low air pressure either unless it's Hydraulic brake? Anyway, If it's like my IC 2005's and newer there's a cheap little buzzer mounted in the back lower left corner of the Gage cluster. On mine it's the only one and it beeps for all functions that require a beep. I've had to replace alot of them some while still in warr and some not. I called the buzzer cheap but it's fairly pricey. Basically you have to pull Gage cluster out of bus and remove rear tin cover to replace it. really not that bad of a job though.

Mine I could always hear a noise or clicking sound coming from dash even though there was no beep you had to listen close but it was there. That told me the buzzer was bad as it was still trying to work.



That little buzzer assy is pricey!! Ouch!! Now I have a new problem since installing the beeper assy. The upper half of the LCD doesnt seem to getting a signal. The gear indicator nor the odometer/trip/hours display anything. It lights up but no numbers or letters are present on the upper half. The lower half where it shows a warning for something like low coolant is functioning properly. I have checked all the harness plugs on the back side of the cluster assy and on the printed circuit of the dash and found no loose or misplaced wires.

Anyone else had this issue after the simple job of replacing the beeper?

Thanks!!!
Go to Top of Page

slippert
Advanced Member

USA
376 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2011 :  11:51:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Could still be in one of the harnesses that jumper everything inside dash, I've never had the problem you are, but have had to replace jumpers for a gauge now and then, sometimes it's been for a gauge that was working prior to removal and didn't when reinstalled. I try to treat them like a carton of eggs when I remove them. Just a thought the little push button didn't get jammed when you had dash out did it, if you layed on face to install buzzer that button sticks out farther than anything else
Go to Top of Page

Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2177 Posts

Posted - 10/16/2012 :  08:50:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another fellow bus tech has two of these IC conventionals in his fleet. One of them is at the dealer for 2 weeks now. They can't figure out why the yellows fail on one side intermittent, and you have to hit the button on the steering several times to get the reds to quit.I think the dealer needs to hire some knowledgeable bus techs. My friend had to show the IC tech how to operate the system. It's under warranty so I can't look at it for him and don't have access to the service information.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Go to Top of Page

Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3298 Posts

Posted - 10/16/2012 :  11:41:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Has anybody gotten so sick of the problems that they disconnected the warning system entirely and hard wired it with a tried and true Weldon 7000? That would solve a lot of problems!
Go to Top of Page

bwest
Administrator

United States
2268 Posts

Posted - 10/16/2012 :  2:11:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomasbus24

Has anybody gotten so sick of the problems that they disconnected the warning system entirely and hard wired it with a tried and true Weldon 7000? That would solve a lot of problems!



I'm not sure you can do that on these. I would have to study that for a while. I know the BB Visons were set up to be able to put a relay in place of a particular circuit. I don't know on the newer ones though

Bryan
Go to Top of Page

IBTMech
Top Member

USA
973 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2012 :  6:03:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit IBTMech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Oh, the joys of Multiplexing. I think Multiplexing was created to give engineers something to crow about and justify their jobs and mechanics something to swear about.
They say " look at all the wire we're saving and how simple it is to diagnose".
Gimme a friggin' break! Even with their $700 software you are still left in the dark if it doesn't fit in their diagnostic tree. They never seem to take into account that there could be a short in the harness somewhere due to faulty installation. (They would never do that)

We have an E-1 fire truck from hell that has been a multiplexing nightmare ever since it arrived in '04 that makes any bus issues look simple. They are all junk!

Sorry 'bout the rant.

If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years.

Edited by - IBTMech on 10/17/2012 6:05:00 PM
Go to Top of Page

Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3298 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2012 :  02:53:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When it comes to electrical, anything is possible in my opinion. How is the bus going to "know" if you cut the wires to the lights from the controller and attach them to a flasher that works?
Go to Top of Page

Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2177 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2012 :  10:05:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IBTMech

Oh, the joys of Multiplexing. I think Multiplexing was created to give engineers something to crow about and justify their jobs and mechanics something to swear about.
They say " look at all the wire we're saving and how simple it is to diagnose".
Gimme a friggin' break! Even with their $700 software you are still left in the dark if it doesn't fit in their diagnostic tree. They never seem to take into account that there could be a short in the harness somewhere due to faulty installation. (They would never do that)

We have an E-1 fire truck from hell that has been a multiplexing nightmare ever since it arrived in '04 that makes any bus issues look simple. They are all junk!

Sorry 'bout the rant.



Remember when they called these wire saving multiplexes "logic boxes". Where's the logic in deleting $100 worth of wire and adding in a $1200 box and software. Rant on brother!

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Go to Top of Page

BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
218 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2012 :  12:27:16 AM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
One of the OEMs that some of us use that will remained unnamed is flooding the market with buses, just like the automobile markets have done.

Trying to regain market share in this manner is erroding confidence in the product.

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
 


School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums © 2013 School Bus Fleet Magazine Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.25 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000