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ThomasC2
Top Member
United States
650 Posts |
 Posted - 01/13/2008 : 3:52:06 PM
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| What are your opinions on the new hybrid school buses? Which one do you think will be better? C2 or CE? |
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Cody
Top Member
United States
1630 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 4:25:45 PM
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| Well seeing as there is no such thing as a C2 hybrid.... I'll have to go with CE. |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 4:39:38 PM
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| Look at the bus report insert in this month's addition of SBF guys...there is a C2 hybrid now! Scary eh? I guess there is one in use in NC...they want to work out the bugs before they start selling them. |
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78fordwayne
Top Member
USA
2868 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 4:43:29 PM
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| Yes Thomas did build a demo C2 hybrid. We can only wait and see what becomes of it |
Robert B.
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78fordwayne
Top Member
USA
2868 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 5:29:29 PM
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| I think it's funny how IC and Thomas continue to advance in technology, while Blue Bird takes a step back when talking about reintroducing the gas engine. |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 6:04:51 PM
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| That's a step forward! |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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Cody
Top Member
United States
1630 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 6:56:15 PM
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Sorry did not realize there was a C2 hybrid, I don't do too much reading.
I think a gas engine is a step forward, right now it will be probably 10k-15k cheaper for similarly spec'd models. All this emissions crap is ruining things. I was checking out some new Superdutys the other day and they don't smell like diesel, run like diesels, or smoke like a real man's diesel should. |
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Ryan2589
Senior Member
United States
98 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2008 : 11:40:46 AM
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| There is always propane as well.. I wonder how often propane buses need to be refueled, anyone know? |
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78fordwayne
Top Member
USA
2868 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2008 : 5:40:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryan2589
There is always propane as well.. I wonder how often propane buses need to be refueled, anyone know?
Well the propane buses from the 80's got same or less MPG than gas. |
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School Bus M8
Top Member
USA
617 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2008 : 5:54:15 PM
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| I just don't think I would want a propane bus. I would be nervous of the bus being hit and it exploding. |
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78fordwayne
Top Member
USA
2868 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2008 : 5:58:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by School Bus M8
I just don't think I would want a propane bus. I would be nervous of the bus being hit and it exploding.
The tanks are very well protected just like a gas tank. |
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mrwaibel
Senior Member
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2008 : 08:31:29 AM
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| Instead of Thomas trying to develope a C2 hybrid like International they need to focus more on the C2s design issues like the large blind spots created around the mirrors, and windshield posts and their cheap poorly designed electric entry doors. The C2 is actualy a cutaway chassis in the way that the C2s dash board and windshield is a Freightliner M2 truck chassis. |
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YellowBox
Advanced Member
Puerto Rico (USA)
254 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 08:05:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mrwaibel
Instead of Thomas trying to develope a C2 hybrid like International they need to focus more on the C2s design issues like the large blind spots created around the mirrors, and windshield posts and their cheap poorly designed electric entry doors. The C2 is actualy a cutaway chassis in the way that the C2s dash board and windshield is a Freightliner M2 truck chassis.
On the BUS REPORT attached to this month SBF Magazine, there is an article that reports that te C2 will have some changes like new roof caps, windows , doors, dash etc....
THOMAS SHOULD BUILT THEIR FS65 AND BRING IT BACK ON THAT FREIGHTLINER M2 CHASSIS.
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YellowBox
Advanced Member
Puerto Rico (USA)
254 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 08:09:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne
I think it's funny how IC and Thomas continue to advance in technology, while Blue Bird takes a step back when talking about reintroducing the gas engine.
They will use PROPANE in a common diesel engine. Instead of usig DIESEL to propel their C7 engines, they want to do it with PROPANE.
Don't you know about PROPANE INYECTION SYSTEMS used in DIESEL powered vehicles. Is like a NITROUS system, just that it is PROPANE wich works better with Diesels than Nitrous.
PROPANE and GASOLINE are not the same |
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YellowBox
Advanced Member
Puerto Rico (USA)
254 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 08:25:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 08BBVision
What are your opinions on the new hybrid school buses? Which one do you think will be better? C2 or CE?
I wonder if on those HYBRID BUSES when they hit low speed traffic the electric motor, transmission or transmotor takes control and the DIESEL engine is shut down, so the Bus is propelled only by the electric motor or transmission.
This will reduce the use of DIESEL fuel. |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 09:33:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by YellowBox
quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne
I think it's funny how IC and Thomas continue to advance in technology, while Blue Bird takes a step back when talking about reintroducing the gas engine.
They will use PROPANE in a common diesel engine. Instead of usig DIESEL to propel their C7 engines, they want to do it with PROPANE.
Don't you know about PROPANE INYECTION SYSTEMS used in DIESEL powered vehicles. Is like a NITROUS system, just that it is PROPANE wich works better with Diesels than Nitrous.
PROPANE and GASOLINE are not the same
The Cat C7 is not, and can not be a propane engine. They are using the GM 8.1L V8 gas engine, with a propane conversion kit on it. It was common to see buses in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s with the propane conversion kits, but they were all on gasoline engines, never heard of it on a diesel.
Blue Bird is also going to offer a gasoline powered Vision soon, using the same 8.1L V8 engine, just without the propane kit on it. |
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78fordwayne
Top Member
USA
2868 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 09:40:22 AM
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| With diesel prices being the way they are, im sure the gas engine will take off in some areas. Who knows maybe gas will be the way to go in the future. |
Robert B.
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78fordwayne
Top Member
USA
2868 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 09:42:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by YellowBox
quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne
I think it's funny how IC and Thomas continue to advance in technology, while Blue Bird takes a step back when talking about reintroducing the gas engine.
They will use PROPANE in a common diesel engine. Instead of usig DIESEL to propel their C7 engines, they want to do it with PROPANE.
Don't you know about PROPANE INYECTION SYSTEMS used in DIESEL powered vehicles. Is like a NITROUS system, just that it is PROPANE wich works better with Diesels than Nitrous.
PROPANE and GASOLINE are not the same
As Rich said, Its a gasoline engine . And gasoline will be offered soon with the Vision. They do not offer a propane diesel engine at this time and I dought they will any time soon. |
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YellowBox
Advanced Member
Puerto Rico (USA)
254 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 11:26:35 AM
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Systems for injecting propane into turbo-diesels have been around for some time. The people that make and sell such systems claim that diesels only burn about 75 percent of the fuel that is injected into the cylinders, and that propane acts as a combustion catalyst to burn the remaining 25 percent of the fuel. This is a dubious claim, especially for newer, modern diesels. Direct injection and common rail fuel injection greatly improve the efficiency of turbo-diesel combustion while simultaneously reducing emissions. If 25 percent of the fuel were going out the exhaust unburned, modern diesels would have high hydrocarbon and particulate emissions. In truth, they have neither. The same cannot be said for older, indirect injection (IDI) diesels, which are less efficient than “modern” configurations, but it is doubtful that even IDI diesels waste 25 percent of the fuel injected (see "Diesel Evolution" elsewhere on this site).
Purveyors of propane systems also claim fuel economy will increase 2-3 miles per gallon with full-time use of propane injection. They make no distinction between motorhomes and pickups, but since they probably want to portray as favorable a number as possible, we must assume that increase is for an unloaded pickup. While this claim may be accurate, it is also misleading. What’s really important is the total fuel cost per mile, which isn’t just the diesel fuel costs, but also the propane costs. Most propane systems use approximately one gallon of propane to every four gallons of diesel fuel. When the propane cost is added in, it’s often cheaper to get the lower miles per gallon on straight diesel without propane.
Of course, propane systems aren’t sold purely for fuel economy. Most propane systems are sold to add power to the vehicle. There’s no argument here. Propane will add power to help negotiate long grades, shorten passing time, etc. How much power is added depends on the system design and the size of the turbo-diesel it is used on, but 50 to 100 HP gains are commonly advertised. Propane proponents also suggest a high-flow performance exhaust system be added to the vehicle to realize the full power potential of a propane injection system.
At Banks, we think there is a better and safer solution to adding power and economy. A propane system, propane tank, refill kit, and performance exhaust system can easily cost $1800 to $2500, and in truth, much of the power and economy gain may be coming from the high-flow exhaust system. A better plan is to add a power system that increases total engine airflow and efficiency. Banks has a range of such power systems from the economical Git-Kit to the top-of-the-line PowerPack® for most turbo-diesel pickups and motorhomes. The beauty of this approach is that power is increased as much or more than by adding propane, fuel mileage is improved (and total fuel costs reduced), there’s no need to buy or refill a propane tank, and there’s no potential hazard of carrying flammable propane. Better still, a Banks system lowers exhaust gas temperature and extends engine life. In the long run, a Banks system is less expensive, more efficient, safer, and more convenient.
For maximum power rigs, such as those used in pickup pull or truck pull contests, or even diesel light truck drag racing, propane injection can be used as a way to further increase power on a diesel that has already been extensively modified, especially if it been modified to the point of overfueling. However, under these same circumstances, we believe equal or greater power gains can be achieved with less expense and trouble by installing nitrous oxide injection (see "Nitrous Oxide & the Diesel" elsewhere on this site).
The bottom line: save the propane for the stove and the furnace.
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78fordwayne
Top Member
USA
2868 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 11:45:02 AM
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Let me reword my previous post .
I have heard of propane diesels. What I was referring to was Blue Bird buses. Not diesels in gerenal. |
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busgeek++
Advanced Member
United States
253 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 09:14:33 AM
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| The day I buy gas over diesel will be AFTER someone makes a wet-sleeve gasser. |
Buses are not a way of life, they are life |
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mrwaibel
Senior Member
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 8:27:04 PM
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| If Blue Bird is going to offer the GM 8.1 liter V8 LP or gasoline engine in their vision they mine as well just use the whole GM chassis then you would once again have a sharp looking hood an a Blue Bird conventional. Iam just afraid thats not going to happen being Blue Bird stands behind the visions hood design as if its the best thing since sliced bread. |
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Jared
Top Member
USA
1865 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2008 : 5:00:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mrwaibel
If Blue Bird is going to offer the GM 8.1 liter V8 LP or gasoline engine in their vision they mine as well just use the whole GM chassis then you would once again have a sharp looking hood an a Blue Bird conventional. Iam just afraid thats not going to happen being Blue Bird stands behind the visions hood design as if its the best thing since sliced bread.
haha, yeah, do you think International Truck and Engine Corp would let them>? |
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredg21/sets/ |
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78fordwayne
Top Member
USA
2868 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2008 : 6:10:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jared
quote:
Originally posted by mrwaibel
If Blue Bird is going to offer the GM 8.1 liter V8 LP or gasoline engine in their vision they mine as well just use the whole GM chassis then you would once again have a sharp looking hood an a Blue Bird conventional. Iam just afraid thats not going to happen being Blue Bird stands behind the visions hood design as if its the best thing since sliced bread.
haha, yeah, do you think International Truck and Engine Corp would let them>?
Good point!
Does International now own the 8.1 as well ? |
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busgeek++
Advanced Member
United States
253 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2008 : 7:28:28 PM
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| Only with an International hood, guages, wheel, etc. |
Buses are not a way of life, they are life |
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Topic |
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Thomas C2 Hybrid vs. IC CE Hybrid School Bus
