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ICfan
Top Member
USA
1251 Posts |
 Posted - 12/07/2007 : 8:28:28 PM
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Today provided a great example of driving in snow 101 in CT. About half of inch of snow fell around the state. I was at a swim meet that was delayed because certain teams got caught in the weather. When we left at 7:45, I noticed that the Waterbury Buses and my bus had there hazard lights on. My Bus had its Hazards on from Watertown High School to Torrington High School.
My Question is this a state law in your state, or a policy that the district creates? I have been on buses in winter weather and haven never seen this before until tonight. |
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misterbill
Advanced Member
United States
306 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2007 : 07:48:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ICfan
Today provided a great example of driving in snow 101 in CT. About half of inch of snow fell around the state. I was at a swim meet that was delayed because certain teams got caught in the weather. When we left at 7:45, I noticed that the Waterbury Buses and my bus had there hazard lights on. My Bus had its Hazards on from Watertown High School to Torrington High School.
My Question is this a state law in your state, or a policy that the district creates? I have been on buses in winter weather and haven never seen this before until tonight.
Well- You won't like this answer. When I went for training I was told when I am being tested, if I need to pull into the center of the road to avoid a branch, I should turn on my four ways.
One of the questions on my test when I was grandfathered to get a CDL upgrade, was what should you do when reducing speed when you are going through construction(answer: four ways).
I was hauling a construction trailer behind a dump truck and I got pulled over by the police for not having my four ways on.
The law reads that four ways are only supposed to be used if you are stopped in case of emergency.
BTW-my bus completely slid out of control yesterday on a steep hill with a sharp corner at the bottom. I radioed in to ask if I should continue. I went home and felt like an idiot, no one else seemed to have a problem. I was actually glad when my wife told me what was on the news. Waterbury busses didn't get home until 10 PM. At least I wasn't the only one with a problem. |
High School Friend-"Hey! How are you! Well, I guess you can't be doing too well, you're driving a school bus." |
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ICfan
Top Member
USA
1251 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2007 : 11:29:53 AM
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I heard about that one too. Here's the Article: from www.rep-am.com
Flash storm causes havoc, strands Waterbury students
BY STAFF REPUBLICAN-AMERICAN
Several vehicles, including a school bus, were stuck on Bunker Hill Road in Watertown Friday night. (Jamison C. Bazinet / RA)
A flash snowstorm caught the region off guard Friday, causing hundreds of accidents, stranding students and sending officials scrambling.
One of the most dramatic problems was in Waterbury, where elementary schools students were left on buses for hours, some until about 10 p.m. In one snapshot, small children wearing winter jackets slept sitting up on a small bus stranded at Walnut and Wood streets.
A forecast of flurries that ended up being a surge of snow wreaked havoc on roads throughout the region.
"A burst of heavy snow at that time, when buses are exiting schools and people are heading home, it causes chaos," Burlington meteorologist John J. Bagioni said.
With public works crews scrambling to keep up after the snow began about 3:30 p.m., Waterbury bus drivers were told to stop on the side of the road and wait until the roads were clear. Of the 120 buses that serve city students, 25 were still waiting close to 9 p.m. School officials couldn't say how many students were left waiting on the buses.
School officials tried to notify parents through television and radio. Many parents called the school department after their children had not come home. Many of those parents picked up their children from the stranded buses, said Paul Guidone, chief operating officer for Waterbury's schools.
About six of the stranded buses were involved in minor accidents when cars slid into them. No one was injured.
There were more than 50 accidents in Waterbury. None were serious and police spokesman Lt. Christopher Corbett described most of them as fender benders. Similar crashes took place throughout the region.
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Tyler Roys Weatherman and International Fan,
http://www.freewebs.com/thectschoolbusyard |
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mlkdrives41
Top Member
USA
2055 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2007 : 12:30:19 PM
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| If the snow was that bad why did they send the buses out in it anyway? |
Nothing great has ever been accomplished without enthusiasm! |
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ICfan
Top Member
USA
1251 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2007 : 3:25:20 PM
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| The heaviest appently came down around when the Elementary Schools where getting out. We where supposed to get nothing in CT, but it turned into a .5" of nightmare. Waterbury is a big hilly city with steep hills. It caught me off guard that it was snowing at 3 PM. |
Tyler Roys Weatherman and International Fan,
http://www.freewebs.com/thectschoolbusyard |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2007 : 4:34:24 PM
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Thankfully it held off a little longer over here in Eastern CT, we got a dusting during elem routes but the roads were fine until (almost) all buses were parked at 4:30. Lucky me, I signed up for a basketball pickup last night and was out until almost 6. By the time the game let out the roads were pretty bad. Fortunately, the trip back was all state roads (see my other posts, the state plows when they need to while the town just sands and salts), although I still wasn't comfortable going over about 30.
When we got back, of course the school driveway wasn't plowed, sanded, or salted. Our school is on the side of a hill and the entrance to the driveway is pretty steep uphill, so I just went sideways going in.
Thankfully I didn't hit anything (or even come close) and I'm a little more comfortable with how my bus handles in bad weather...I got upgraded to an EF a few weeks ago and my prior experience driving in snow was mostly conventionals. |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2007 : 7:57:38 PM
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| Yesterday was the scariest day of my driving career so far. It started snowing around 2:15 (I'm in Western CT) but didn't start getting bad for about another hour. I was fine on my HS run, but my primary run was a nighmare. I've got one road on my route that is especially bad... it's narrow, curvey, and steep, and I almost lost it going down that first hill even though I was creeping less than 5 mph. Usually going slow like that I do just fine, but that snow yesterday created road conditions that were much worse than normal. The rear of my bus started sliding toward the right side of the road even with the ABS. I had to keep on releasing the brakes to straighten out then apply them again. I know they say you're not supposed to do that with ABS but it's that technique that got me to stop. The ABS would have left me in the woods. Personally I hate ABS, I've never bought a vehicle that has it, I just don't trust it, especially after seeing how it was letting my bus slide almost to the point of being out of control yesterday. When I got the bus stopped I pulled the brake and radioed for a sand truck. I had to sit there quite a while but eventually one came. I got back to the bus lot about an hour later than normal, and there were still buses out on the road at that time. In my two years of driving that route, I've never seen the roads that bad. It wasn't too much snow, but boy was it slick! Perhaps if the meteorologists had forecasted this a little better, we would have had an early dismissal. |
If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2007 : 8:06:55 PM
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| I love the winter weather driving, although the modern ABS systems have taken all the fun out of it. Nothing was more fun than getting in an old IHC with a 345 gas engine and 5 speed and doing donuts in the parking lot to warm the bus up in the morning. Having those wheels lock up and that front end start sliding never bothered me one bit. My biggest problem was always one of my turn arounds that the county would always plow the snow from the road into without clearing it out for me. The other was a road that had many curves and went around the lake so it was open and was prone to heavy snow drifts. |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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busgeek++
Advanced Member
United States
253 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2007 : 8:11:21 PM
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| Fun way for warm up! |
Buses are not a way of life, they are life |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 04:59:25 AM
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Who says ABS takes all the fun out of it? That's what the yellow knob is for 
Dave, I think I know why your ABS was letting the bus slide...Not sure if this applies to buses but I know on some cars ABS doesn't kick in below a certain speed. The house I used to live at had a very steep driveway and I was able to lock the wheels on several ABS-equipped vehicles going home after a snowstorm. Since you were going less than 5mph, this might be why the wheels kept locking...when in doubt, I see nothing wrong with pumping the pedal. |
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Peter
Top Member
USA
1057 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 07:57:13 AM
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| ... but be careful doing that with air brakes! I hit glare ice one time going down a grade towards a T intersection. I was only going about 20 mph in a '99 BB/IH. I used the applied braking method for awhile to no avail and started pumping them as I got closer to the bottom of the hill. By the time I nosed it into the ditch across the T, the buzzer was going and a few more pumps of the pedal would have sprung the spring brakes. The snowy ditch made for a nice soft landing! |
Spicer is nicer. |
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ICfan
Top Member
USA
1251 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 09:34:03 AM
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| So Phil or Dave did you use your Hazard lights when on your route then when driving in that mess? |
Tyler Roys Weatherman and International Fan,
http://www.freewebs.com/thectschoolbusyard |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 09:50:57 AM
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| Nope. I work with several drivers who follow the "when in doubt, activate hazards" mentality, but I only use my hazards if my bus is a hazard to other vehicles, or if I want to warn other vehicles of a hazard ahead. |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 6:05:49 PM
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| Hazard lights are only to be used when you are driving significantly slower than the rest of the traffic or when you are pulled off on the side of the road. If the roads are snow and/or ice covered then the rest of the traffic is going to be going slower as well so the bus shouldn't have a need for hazards. |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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ICfan
Top Member
USA
1251 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 6:24:53 PM
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| Thanks thomas86 a and Phil, the bus was going 20mph on a 35-40mph roads and for a while we had a line of traffice behind us as far as we could see, which was not great becuase of all the curves. |
Tyler Roys Weatherman and International Fan,
http://www.freewebs.com/thectschoolbusyard |
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 8:24:27 PM
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| I use my hazards when traveling on the other side of the yellow line to alert traffic behind me of a hazard they may not see right away. |
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School Bus M8
Top Member
USA
617 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 11:05:53 PM
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With all the new upgrades and technology being done on school buses, i'm surprised that no bus manufacterer has toyed around with the possibility of manufacturing a front wheel drive school bus. I wonder what the reason is?
I don't use my hazards unless i'm pulled over to the side of the road, broken down or I am stopped for a loading or unloading bus. I notice drivers that over do it and do something to be safe but it's more of a distraction than a safety precaution. I see drivers put on their ambers in a construction zone which gives others the wrong idea. One day one side of the street was closed and there was a cop directing traffic. We would have to go in the opposite lane when instructed by the cop. A bus driver about five cars ahead of me decided to activate her ambers as a safety precaution while being instructed by the cop to travel on the other side of the road. The cop, as did I thought she was going to make a stop. Also if my boss has an announcement to make to all the drivers over the two way radio, one driver will reply "okay I copy" then all of a sudden you have twenty out of the fifty drivers following the other drivers cue. No need for it! |
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misterbill
Advanced Member
United States
306 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 11:40:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BBInt.10
Usually going slow like that I do just fine, but that snow yesterday created road conditions that were much worse than normal
I talked to someone yesterday who is a retired town foreman, I can't think of the right job name-we just call them the 'Town Crew'. He said usually when it snows, the snow melts on the road and the roads get wet before the snow starts to stick. He said it was too cold on Friday for the snow to melt and it immediately stuck to the roads.
quote:
Originally posted by BBInt.10
Yesterday was the scariest day of my driving career so far.
I have to agree. My worst experiances in my life were driving a truck in the snow-I don't ever remember sliding completely out of control like I did yesterday. |
High School Friend-"Hey! How are you! Well, I guess you can't be doing too well, you're driving a school bus." |
Edited by - misterbill on 12/10/2007 11:42:32 AM |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 6:02:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by School Bus M8
I don't use my hazards unless i'm pulled over to the side of the road, broken down or I am stopped for a loading or unloading bus.
We were told by our safety supervisor earlier this year NOT to use hazard lights when waiting for a loading or unloading bus. Her logic was that it takes the attention off of the bus that's loading/unloading, and could possibly create a situation where somoene comes from behind to pass the stopped bus with the hazards on, thinking it wants traffic to pass it, and not seeing the bus up ahead loading/unloading, possibly run its red lights and create a hazardous situation.
I used to drive city buses, and proper bus stop procudure for a city bus involves putting on your hazards while you are loading/unloading. This notifies motorists that you are stopped, and to go around. I always get annoyed when I see a city bus stopped at a crosswalk letting someone cross WITH THEIR HAZARDS ON. With a city bus, hazards mean "go around"!! I think there certainly should be more emphasis on proper hazard light usage in your CDL training, as they are often misused. |
If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
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School Bus M8
Top Member
USA
617 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 6:42:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BBInt.10
quote:
Originally posted by School Bus M8
I don't use my hazards unless i'm pulled over to the side of the road, broken down or I am stopped for a loading or unloading bus.
We were told by our safety supervisor earlier this year NOT to use hazard lights when waiting for a loading or unloading bus. Her logic was that it takes the attention off of the bus that's loading/unloading, and could possibly create a situation where somoene comes from behind to pass the stopped bus with the hazards on, thinking it wants traffic to pass it, and not seeing the bus up ahead loading/unloading, possibly run its red lights and create a hazardous situation.
I used to drive city buses, and proper bus stop procudure for a city bus involves putting on your hazards while you are loading/unloading. This notifies motorists that you are stopped, and to go around. I always get annoyed when I see a city bus stopped at a crosswalk letting someone cross WITH THEIR HAZARDS ON. With a city bus, hazards mean "go around"!! I think there certainly should be more emphasis on proper hazard light usage in your CDL training, as they are often misused.
I never thought of it that way concerning the hazards and it does make sense. I'll have to bring that up at our next safety meeting. We were always told to put our hazards on to a loading or unloading bus.
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 6:45:26 PM
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quote:
I always get annoyed when I see a city bus stopped at a crosswalk letting someone cross WITH THEIR HAZARDS ON. With a city bus, hazards mean "go around"!!
What about railroad crossings?
I agree, I see way too much inconsistency in use of lights with all commercial vehicles. I've even seen a car put their hazards on to stop for a school bus, and the bus driver thought the car was a volunteer firefighter.
As for transit buses, I always thought the accepted practice was to use the right turn signal if pulling into a bus stop that's out of the travel lane, and hazards if you're making the stop in a travel lane (no separate pull-off). |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 8:19:19 PM
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| For transit buses, you're supposed to right signal 100' before the stop, but when you stop and open the door, you have to throw on the hazards, regardless of whether it is in a travel lane or bus stop. That's the legal procedure in CT anyway... I suppose other states might have different rules. |
If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2007 : 2:00:05 PM
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Well I officially have had the scariest moment of my driving career. We went to school today with an early release...snow started falling at 11:30 with the last school releasing at 1:00. I've been home for half an hour and my knuckles are finally starting to regain some color...
Usually with a 3:10 release at the last school, all buses are parked by 4:15. Today with 1:00 release, we had buses out until 3:15. |
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Kodie
Top Member
United States
2028 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2007 : 2:25:13 PM
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Same for our drivers. A water main brake at the high school caused drivers to be called in 30 minutes early and you could just see they were worried. The streets had 7" of snow unplowed due to the snow was falling so fast and plows couldnt keep up. The Elementary let out at normal time and were delayed 40 minutes and finally middle school should have let out almost an hour ago but because buses are delayed they are still in the building. All afternoon activities were canceled and the high school will most likely be closed tomorrow due to the water main breaking. Watching buses go down the road was very intense because they were slipping and sliding all over and going only 5 mph hour with the hazards on because visibility was about 3 feet.
In my opinion knowing we were going to have this storm I would have canceled school but we didnt expect it to get this bad. Saturday night they are predicting 16" of snow which would most likely close school Monday. |
Edited by - Kodie on 12/13/2007 2:28:39 PM |
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NathanW
Advanced Member
United States
313 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2007 : 2:44:40 PM
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| Not snow related, but one of our drivers radioed into base that they were traveling northbound on hwy 93 and was just passed by a car going southbound in the NORTHBOUND LANES!!! Turns out the cops already knew and had about 8 cars convergin on the area to find the person. |
Nathan--Driver Extraordinaire |
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Topic |
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Driving in Slippery, Snowy Conditions
