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03CV200
Top Member
United States
740 Posts |
 Posted - 03/14/2007 : 07:52:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard
I cannot get over the complete ignorance in this topic when it comes to the spec'ing of emergency exits!
There have been hundreds of documented bus accidents where the roof hatches, side emergency windows, and side emergency doors have been used, but since a few people from one location haven't seen them used they are deemed unneccessary.
That's like saying that air bags in a car are a waste since you've never been in or seen a crash.
There is not a single good reason that I have seen to not support getting roof hatches, side emergency windows, or emergency doors.
I think the point Jake was trying to make was, whats the point of having a roof hatch if the kids have no idea what is for. Like someone said, most kids think of it as a vent, not an E-Exit. If a bus is equipped with one or more, it should be up to the driver to notify the kids of how to use it. I know in my district the drivers mention all of the types of exits (service door, rear e-door, push out windows, and hatches; however, the only one thats ever practiced is the rear e-door. Kids have asked if they could go out a window, but the driver obviosly told them no. I personally, in 13 years of riding a bus, have never seen how a side window opens or how a roof hatch opens for exiting. And, like Jake said many kids would never fit out a window, let alone a hatch. I know personally, I too would run for the service door or the rear door, not a window or hatch. Now, I think all buses should have at least one roof hatch and 2 push out windows just in case a rare senario should arise regardless of if you feel they are pointless or not.
Finally, just a bit of advice to some of you, and you know who you are, CHILL OUT!!! |
-Dave |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 09:07:21 AM
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It seems to me that the problem isn't the exits themselves, it's the lack of training on how to evacuate a bus and use the exits.
Here in New York State, the law requires all route buses to have at the minimum two evacuation drills per school year. I feel that having a policy such as New York's should be nationwide, as it is very important to have students familiar with what to do in an emergency.
But what it all comes to at the end is that there ARE bus crashes, and even you may not witness one personally, they do happen! Why not be prepared with a good quantity of exit routes? |
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03CV200
Top Member
United States
740 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 09:36:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard
Here in New York State, the law requires all route buses to have at the minimum two evacuation drills per school year. I feel that having a policy such as New York's should be nationwide, as it is very important to have students familiar with what to do in an emergency.
Pennsylvania has the same law, and I couldn't agree with you more. |
-Dave |
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Jake
Top Member
USA
3527 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 12:29:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 03CV200
quote:
Originally posted by Richard
Here in New York State, the law requires all route buses to have at the minimum two evacuation drills per school year. I feel that having a policy such as New York's should be nationwide, as it is very important to have students familiar with what to do in an emergency.
Pennsylvania has the same law, and I couldn't agree with you more.
MY POINT IS
The purpose of Exit Windows/ Roof Hatches ARE NOT explained to the kids, therefore, they don't know how to use them/ when to.
We have 2 evacuations drills a year. And that is side door/ rear door. No one really cares about them. All the bus driver says is "Get off at the rear door today" Nothing more. Nothing is explained to the kids what to do if a crash occurs, or what to do in case of a fire, bus tip, or anything.
What is the purpose of all this extra stuff is no one knows what its for? If their is any crash, here the kids head for the doors. They could care less about the windows. Or roof hatches.
I am implying that bus evacuations are NOT expressed.
~Jake~ |
Yellow & Black
A new forum community dedicated to school bus driving, operations, maintenance and enthusiasts!
Come join the discussion! |
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ICfan
Top Member
USA
1251 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 1:37:14 PM
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| Jake - it took you this long to tell us your point? And help explain how this goes along with SC horrible bus conditions? |
Tyler Roys Weatherman and International Fan,
http://www.freewebs.com/thectschoolbusyard |
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93CarpFord#11
Top Member
USA
1382 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 1:51:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ICfan
Jake - it took you this long to tell us your point? And help explain how this goes along with SC horrible bus conditions?
Jake got his point across earlier in this thread. |
Johnny
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 2:08:14 PM
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| The real problem with this topic and these forums in general lately are some of the freak shows that are responding to these topics! Their responses make these forums look almost as unprofessional as me calling them freak shows does! |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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03CV200
Top Member
United States
740 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 3:03:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thomas86_a
The real problem with this topic and these forums in general lately are some of the freak shows that are responding to these topics! Their responses make these forums look almost as unprofessional as me calling them freak shows does!
I agree. |
-Dave |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 3:42:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thomas86_a
The real problem with this topic and these forums in general lately are some of the freak shows that are responding to these topics! Their responses make these forums look almost as unprofessional as me calling them freak shows does!
And people wonder why I haven't posted to the Forums in over a month. This website used to be (and still is to some extent) a wonderful tool for networking, but lately it's gotten to the point that I overhear more intelligent conversations on my middle school route. |
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78fordwayne
Top Member
USA
2868 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 4:12:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard
It seems to me that the problem isn't the exits themselves, it's the lack of training on how to evacuate a bus and use the exits.
Bingo!
When I was in grade school I think it was third grade when we got our first buses with roof hatches. I remember one of the students asking the driver "what are those 2 square things on the roof". The driver said " Those are air vents or when it gets to hot in here".
Now that is big time lack of training! IMO.
The first time I ever opened a roof hatch was when I started working on buses in high school. And ill tell you it took a few seconds to figure out how to open it all the way. Now a few seconds is WAY to long if the bus flips on its side and catches fire!
I think that the first day of school and at least twice during the school year the driver or who ever should show the students how the roof exit and push out windows work and how to open them when needed. |
Robert B.
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 4:15:14 PM
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Welcome back to posting bus724 and Jake we now understand what you were trying to say. That not being the issue at hand anyways- I believe you are trying to say is that most buses, if not all, that you have been on, the school bus drivers have not demonstrated how to use the exits, therefore, one might deem them useless. I could understand why you would feel this way. I think that Richard's response answered your question
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A school bus full of kids in Massachusetts is the same as a school bus full of kids in New York as well as a school bus full of kids in Indiana, California, SC and so forth = they all are carrying lives and in any event that for some reason an evacuation was necessary- the bus should have as many exits as possible.
I think that many school bus drivers opt not to show kids how to use the roof hatches is because the buzzers usually don't shut off and they are not that easy to shut after they open. (Maybe they should make the things more user friendly).
The emergency exits on the bus I drive are plentiful- and I like the new design and I show the kids how to use them. I also show the kids how to open the roof hatches. --Maybe the state that you live in needs to work on the issue.
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Edited by - 80-RE4 on 03/14/2007 4:19:01 PM |
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IC
Top Member
USA
3413 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 4:19:22 PM
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For the UMPTEENTH time....why don't those of you, of superior intelligence, just form a private, invitation-only forum. And leave this place to the idiots and morons?
Private forums are very easy to set up...I'm a member of several myself. They can get a little stale over time, what with the same people saying the same things. But all you have to do is monitor this or similsr sites for promising recruits...and e-mail them an invitation.
Meanwhile...DON'T belittle the good people of South Carolina! Maybe they prefer a junky school bus fleet to the obscene and crushing tax burden in places like Nuh Yawk and Massivetu$hits! |
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Jake
Top Member
USA
3527 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 5:36:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ICfan
Jake - it took you this long to tell us your point? And help explain how this goes along with SC horrible bus conditions?
I have explained my point. If you wish to future consult me, email me or something, because I am tired of yelling it out over the forum. If you don't get what I am saying by now, you'll never get it. Obviously this thread has gone way to far. Yeah, it started with me saying something such as "What is the purpose of em. exits if people don't know how to use them" and now its to freak shows, etc. We don't look like no freak show. Some of us are new to the industry, some of us skim topics, some of us leave and comeback yearly. Its life. I went against what was said due to I skimmed the topic, and I stated my opinion. It didn't go outta proportion until the A+ in Stupidity was issued. I stated my point. My point is my point. Everyones is different. If you have a problem with my point, contact me and I'll be glad to talk it out.
This is my last reply to this thread. As said, my point of all the discussion is listed above. I have stated several other points, but that is my main one. If you don't get it by now, quit worrying about it, because you never will, due to I will not explain it futhermore.
Good day 
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Edited by - Jake on 03/14/2007 5:43:05 PM |
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Kodie
Top Member
United States
2028 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 7:57:09 PM
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I have to agree I know that they serve a good purpose but from my experience the last time the bus rolled over in this area was in buffalo in the late 90's. There buses had one roof hatch and everybody got out. Seaking of roof hatches I have one buried in my closet that I got off of a Laidlaw bus the fire department was doing a practice drill on. It was cool I am 14 and I drove a school bus in my grandfathers parking lot.quote:
Originally posted by Richard
I cannot get over the complete ignorance in this topic when it comes to the spec'ing of emergency exits!
There have been hundreds of documented bus accidents where the roof hatches, side emergency windows, and side emergency doors have been used, but since a few people from one location haven't seen them used they are deemed unneccessary.
That's like saying that air bags in a car are a waste since you've never been in or seen a crash.
There is not a single good reason that I have seen to not support getting roof hatches, side emergency windows, or emergency doors.
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Edited by - Kodie on 03/14/2007 8:01:32 PM |
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Gini
Top Member
USA
1249 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 9:13:31 PM
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| GETTING BACK TO THE SUBJECT- OLD BUSES IN SC- FCPS still has 89s on the road (look in thread, current page talking about who's in them), so age by itself isn't a problem. lack of upkeep would be a bigger problem than just being old. all the older buses w/o roof hatches have windshields & back windows that can be kicked out for e-exit. & we've always kept wrecked buses for parts. shoot, half the time one of buses isn't ready after 2 days during the reg pm, it's because a mechanic helped themselves to a part off your bus to put another one on the road. they figure, why not, the parts on the way..... |
1Peter 1:3 |
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03CV200
Top Member
United States
740 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 05:59:49 AM
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| I think its necessary that S.C. should invest in replacing its fleet. The older a bus gets, the more problems there are. Especially those buses without anti-lock brakes. I'm not saying that these buses they're using are junk, but they are getting old, and the childeren would benefit from newer, safer buses. The state would probably spend as much money paying for new buses as they spent trying to maintain the old ones. Also, the newer buses are better for enviornment (lower emissions). |
-Dave |
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ICfan
Top Member
USA
1251 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 1:21:06 PM
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| They are finally! 300 buses from Thomas has "made it" to SC. I say "made it" because who knows the delays that SC or even Thomas had. |
Tyler Roys Weatherman and International Fan,
http://www.freewebs.com/thectschoolbusyard |
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wayneguy32
Active Member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2007 : 11:07:49 AM
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| I personally feal that a bus is as only as dependable as the people taking care of it. Look at our district, we still have 2 1989 Ward Patriots running as spare busses. They are still in good condition, they have quite a few miles thought. However they have been well taken care off! I think that Sc. needs to take a look at there maintanance program and reaaly examine what they do. You can have an older model bus running in your fleet if you take care of them. Sound to me like they need to replace a lot of there busses, and they need to look at more dependable busses. Such as newer model busses instead of used ones, where you don't know for certain if they have been taken care of! |
I MISS MY WAYNE!!!!! |
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Busdude3
Top Member
USA
1178 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2007 : 3:16:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 03CV200
I think its necessary that S.C. should invest in replacing its fleet. The older a bus gets, the more problems there are. Especially those buses without anti-lock brakes. I'm not saying that these buses they're using are junk, but they are getting old, and the childeren would benefit from newer, safer buses. The state would probably spend as much money paying for new buses as they spent trying to maintain the old ones. Also, the newer buses are better for enviornment (lower emissions).
I do agree with you and along with many of the other comments other users have said. I do want to say though that older buses can be in the garage just as much or less than a newer bus. I can't tell you how many times we have (in fact all the time) we have our '98-'08 Thomas EFs in our 4 garage bays. Usually being transmission and engine problems. Not to mention the large amount of newer buses that are always at my local Thomas dealership. Not just EFs but Freightliners, C2s, HDXs, and so on. I'm just saying, not all older buses are unpractical or problem worthy. For whats its worth, our older buses (1987+) almost never see the garage and pass inspection yearly. We have problems with our newer buses probaly more than 3/4 the time.
I can't say I've seen any old buses in South Carolina. When I was in Myrtle Beach twice, I saw some very nice buses actually. Lots of those '95 Thomas ERs and '03 Thomas Freightliners. Also, a scarse amount of '88 and '90 Blue Bird Internationals. No Carpenters at all - I'm guessing those are all in another area. I'm guessing that area of the state has been keeping up with the times. Not to mention some beautiful activity buses I saw at some of the high schools. |
Edited by - Busdude3 on 03/17/2007 3:20:23 PM |
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03CV200
Top Member
United States
740 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2007 : 4:47:32 PM
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| It seems to me that since the new emissions engines came into use back in October of 2003, the buses and trucks have been full of problems. There are several Chevy CV200s (both gas and diesel), that have little to no problems. There is a 2002 CV200 with a Cat 3126 that has never been to the garage with mechanical issues (at least not to my knowledge). I think all of the new systems that were put on the engines were the cause of all these issues. |
-Dave |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 05:55:42 AM
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Aiken County to receive 16 new buses, replacing aging models
Tue, Mar 20, 2007
Robert Hoffman, the Aiken school bus maintenance shop director, shows one of the 16 new buses his office is getting this year. (PICTURE BELOW) (ARTICLE UNDER PICTURE)
By ROB NOVIT
Senior writer
The school bus maintenance shop in Aiken is getting 16 new buses that will replace older buses in the Aiken County School District.
The new vehicles — Thomas Saf-T-Liner C2 buses — will help, said the district's transportation supervisor, Maria McClure, and the new maintenance shop manager, Robert Hoffman.
"It's a problem, as our buses are continuously getting older," McClure said.
"The last time we got new ones was in 2000, other than some special needs buses."
S.C. Rep. Roland Smith, R-Warrenville, has been on a mission to keep a bus recycling program going. Currently, the Ways and Means Committee of the S.C. House has $29 million for new buses for 2007-2008 — $22.8 million from a contingency surplus fund and the rest from the general fund.
"That should provide about 374 new buses (statewide)," Smith said. "We have to do this on a year-to-year basis, as we can't afford to run anything in recurring dollars. I feel comfortable that everyone is committed to these replacement funds."
The state has about 6,000 buses, and a substantial number date back to 1986-87 and even a few are 1984 models. The last major purchase was in 1995.
"Those buses are now 12 years old, and they have a lot of miles," said Hoffman, whose shop is administered by the State Department of Education. "We're talking 150,000 to 210,000 miles, and we're going to come into problems with the engines."
The Aiken bus shop maintains an on-road fleet of 165 buses; about 33 more utilized in Aiken County are from the bus shop in Johnston.
With such a large county in size, "of course, we would like to get more buses," said McClure. "But that's not a must right now."
A parent, Janice Kern, said she previously had no idea about the aging bus fleet and what she considers an insufficient number of buses. She said her daughter, a sophomore at Midland Valley High School, has been late to school a number of times because of bus issues.
Hoffman said his records show that the bus had maintenance problems three times. At the beginning of the year, new students were added to that neighborhood, McClure said. The route became too long, resulting in arrival delays about 19 times before the transportation office could move some students to another bus and make the route shorter.
"I think people are putting kids on the buses and don't have clue how old the buses are," Kern said. "They need this school bus replacement bill and get some better quality buses."
She used to live in California "and taxes are through the roof there," Kern said. "We can do something about this bus issue here."
The shop mechanics do a good job of keeping the older buses safe and providing a good cosmetic appearance, Hoffman said.
"We do seem to get the parts we need in a timely manner, but there are always more needed," he said.
Smith did express concern that new regulations from the Environmental Protection Agency and higher fuel prices will result in increased bus costs. He serves on a bus specifications committee with other lawmakers and representatives from the State Department and the private sector.
"We'll meet to address the changes and hopefully get the cost down again without jeopardizing safety," Smith said.
Contact Rob Novit at rnovit@aikenstandard.com.
http://www.aikenstandard.com/news/288460443738170.php
Aiken Today || Aiken County to receive 16 new buses, replacing aging models |
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ICfan
Top Member
USA
1251 Posts |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 1:56:17 PM
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Off topic, that new mirror mount on the C2 looks quite large.
I think South Carolina needs to do what most states do, give the school district a set amount of money and let them run their transportation department. Some will run it themselves and others will contract just like most other states. This won't solve the funding situation though. If they aren't putting enough money aside to purchase the buses at a state level they probably won't provide the school districts enough money. Something has to change, some people might not mind the old buses but those districts that would like to provide a safer, more efficient, mode of transportation don't really have a choice with the current setup. |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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ICfan
Top Member
USA
1251 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 1:58:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thomas86_a
Off topic, that new mirror mount on the C2 looks quite large.
I think South Carolina needs to do what most states do, give the school district a set amount of money and let them run their transportation department. Some will run it themselves and others will contract just like most other states. This won't solve the funding situation though. If they aren't putting enough money aside to purchase the buses at a state level they probably won't provide the school districts enough money. Something has to change, some people might not mind the old buses but those districts that would like to provide a safer, more efficient, mode of transportation don't really have a choice with the current setup.
Could not have agreed more with you. |
Tyler Roys Weatherman and International Fan,
http://www.freewebs.com/thectschoolbusyard |
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<TOPIC> SCarolina SBuses
