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rswboe
Top Member
USA
675 Posts |
 Posted - 02/24/2006 : 10:09:34 AM
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2 things, one, the personal attacks in this post are ridiculous, get a grip.
as far as First Student's rep, it aint worth much around here either. I know a few people who have worked, or currently do work for that outfit in a couple of different terminals. Medical bennies are one issue, questioable hiring practices are another. The terminals I'm familiar with hire ONE good mechanic to run the shop & fill the rest of the roster with entry level bodies. Check the NJ MVC website & see the the failure rate for inspections are, one terminal is a 100% failure rate, another is 99%. 4 out of 198 buses at the two terminals only 4 (yes, 4) passed the first time. These are real stats, not conjecture or personal opinion. It speaks volumes. This appears to be a corporate structure with issues (from the outside, anyway), any insiders out there that want to counter? |
Live each like it's going to be your last, one day you'll be right! |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2006 : 7:15:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by DanLJ
JK - I sincerely do wish that I could make an ally of you - you are well versed, very knowledgeable, determined, dedicated to children's safety and obviously have the time and expertise to follow through on all of these attributes.
The ONLY, and I stress ONLY, thing that I take issue with in general is your perspective.
I've been your ally all along, simply from a perspective on a few issues where comes disagreement at this point. Were it that my Mrs. must agree with everything I say or v/s, I would suggest such a marriage would have dissolved within a few months. True skill I would think is acknowledging difference and still capable of working effectively together toward the end goal. It must be obvious by now that I'm unwilling to abandon you or any willing to speak their mind. This is the perfect environment to debate various perspectives that otherwise could not be heard in the workplace. Exploring, understanding and debating, the interaction here in this forum gives both bus drivers and management an opportunity to notice how differences unheard and not acknowledged can escalate frustrations in the workplace. And best of all, a look at what options might prove better served when a one-on-one with the manager or management does not satisfy the school bus drivers goals to be heard and understood. This is the place for managers and bus drivers to screw-up, not in the workplace where wounds can run deep and long on both sides. Here, a mess up simply means, shut off the computer and take a nap. Back to it later. Can't do that in the workplace - not most workplaces anyway. When a thread becomes what some, displaying in their post some sort of disapointment, then present as - "Just like at work," that's a perfect thread to look at and interact for solutions in my opinion. "Just getting along," will not likely ever solve anything of genuine value. Someone that simply wants to just get along better go buy a plant and perhaps then live happily ever after. I have a whole lot more respect for someone like you than I can ever have for someone just trying to get along. You have great possibilities worth listening to and spending time on. Varying perspectives, most often without the personalizing attacks (although such can even be made useful), are necessary and must be welcomed and freely debated for a profession's forum to be of much use in my opinion. Without some conflict forums tend to wither like a plant left unwatered for too long.
Click the following link for an industry forum that had great possibilities but seemed to lack its members energy to engage the great debates abundant in this industry and here in these forums: Click Here for STN Forums
Have a nice day.  (jk)
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There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Edited by - JK on 02/24/2006 7:44:37 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2006 : 7:30:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sherm
... For every dissatisfied customer there are ten satisfied ones. ...
Here's a stat you may find useful: Every dissatisfied customer over their lifetime will tell an average of two hundred and fifty potential customers about their dissatisfaction. Some of us tell thousands. And the press tells millions.
That 10% rough estimate you mentioned as dissatisfied, not the ninety percent you indicated liked the service, can eventually put all but government run operations and some monopolies OUT OF BUSINESS. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads
Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. Note that the photos area is under revision - The school bus safety ads area is now available. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Edited by - JK on 02/24/2006 7:46:06 PM |
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School Bus M8
Top Member
USA
617 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2006 : 03:52:24 AM
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0quote:
Originally posted by NewBee Driver
quote:
Originally posted by Amtran RE #4
One thing I don't understand is- First Student does not offer any health insurance.
Where are you getting this info. I have worked for First Student for 3 years and have had full benifits avalible to me the entire time. Like most employers these days they are getting more expencive, But they are availible. Please check your facts in the future.
It's nice that you get health insurance because I work for First Student and we sure as hell don't have health insurance. We have a discount plan which is an absolute joke. The so called insurance plan that this F.S. offers us gets cheezier each year but the cost go's up.
One driver who just beat cancer went elsewere because the "insurance plan" did not cover mamagrams. Another driver hurt her hand when she instinctively grabbed the cord to her AC when it fell out the window. Unfortunatley she dropped her insurance last summer due to the cost and the lack of coverage. Now her fingers can hardly bend and they are as shiny as a waxed car due to the fact that she couldn't afford the hospital bills.
The only drivers who have good coverage are foreigners because they guarenteed health insurance by the government. And the way these foreigners are getting hired in our yard the less demand there is for health insurance. They can hardly speak English but they can sit behind the wheel of the bus and smile............I guess thats what important.
We brought up the insurance issue at one of our town meetings held by the company and they said they'll look into it. We haven't heard back from them and that was three years ago. |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2006 : 06:52:31 AM
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I think JK's posts made quite a lot of sense and value, specifically referring to the two posts made: Posted - 02/24/2006 : 7:15:54 PM and Posted - 02/24/2006 : 7:30:48 PM
I think they are both right on target.
School Bus M8, when I went and applied (well didn't apply but enquired) about how First Student could satisfy my needs as an employee of their's, I was not satisfied at all, so obviously I chose to not hire them as my employer. They said "oh yes we have health insurance" I said "Oh good"; I enquired more about the type of insurance it was, and finally realized that it was the bogus plan that you are mentioning. Probably the same that Laidlaw offers (although Laidlaw does offer a good plan such as Blue Cross Blue Shield, the cost is outrageous) I called on the phone and they were so desperate for help they begged me to work for them. I'll call you back was my answer.
There is a plan that Laidlaw offers and I am quite sure it probably is equal to or close to what First Student offers. It is VERY deceiving. In the benefits package it says "SIGN UP FOR HEALTHWISE NOW! BECAUSE WE CARE ABOUT YOUR HEALTH” but further reading into the plan, any smart person would laugh in their faces and say "I might be a school bus driver, but I do have brains".
The plan offers 5 office visits per year. It states that it is not a catastrophic or major health insurance plan (but they sure do charge the rate of one.) They even made it such a big deal and said “We now allow you to see the doctor 5 times, instead of 4!)-and I think they only pay $60.00 towards your doctor’s visit anyways. I think they also allowed one or two sets of exrays per year! Such a foolish gimmick.
Right now, my employer offers me BlueCrossBlueShield coverage for about $45.00 per pay period as well as Dental. Not bad in the school bus profession.
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Edited by - 80-RE4 on 02/25/2006 07:00:01 AM |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2006 : 12:17:45 PM
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| Rswboe, I tried to find the stats you qoute on the web site you quoted, but was unable to do so. In California if a terminal falis inspection, it does not operate until it passes, and I would think the same thing happens elsewhere. I have never heard of a FIRST STUDENT terminal being shut down by any state. Not to question your veracity, but I find it hard to believe that out of 198 buses, only 4 passed inspection. Perhaps you could tell me the things they check for in your state, and provide a link where those stats could be located. |
William |
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bobrien
Active Member
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2006 : 07:21:41 AM
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| I have a question for NEWBEE DRIVER-u say u work for first student & have great benefits. I work for first student & have the worst so called health insurance in the world. can u tell me what is so good about yurs?? we were offered 2 US NOW plans & they are horrid. I pay $136. each week for myself & my husband this policy does not even cover routine lab work, physicals etc. what do u have??????? |
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NewBee Driver
Senior Member
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2006 : 10:01:02 PM
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| I did not say they are great benefits, I stated that they are avalible. I also stated that they are somewhat over priced (as are benefits at almost any company in any industry) I do not know the exact details for a driver and spouce but i believe that it is in the area of $40 a week which covers most issues with a 30% co-pay or the option of i believe about $60 a week with a 10% co-pay. so absolutly its not cheap but also take into account that you are paying for a 1 year policy in a 9 month time frame, so your rate is gonna be a bit higher then it would be in a year round job. |
Driving Seattle To School - And Loving It!! |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2006 : 10:27:31 PM
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Mine is free and the Mrs. is $125 per month. Had bypass surgery several years ago, total out of pocket about $500.00, most for ambulance service. Have some major surgery coming up that will cost less than that out of pocket. In this profession if at least the bus driver does not have superior coverage, that bus driver is working for the wrong employer - period. This occupation is hard on bus drivers health and that does need to be compensated for. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads
Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. Note that the photos area is under revision - The school bus safety ads area is now available. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 12:56:34 AM
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Laidlaw uses the Fringe Benefit Group, www.fibi.com --- then to see Laidlaw's wonderful (wonderful, wonderful for Laidlaw that is) but to see Laidlaw's joke of health insurance offered (which I assume is comparable to First Student's joke system) just type www.fibi.com/Laidlaw
Notice, when you check out RATES, it does not give you rates; you have to see the HR for that. They allow 300 dollars per year for doctor's visit. They claim that they will pay $60. Per dr. visit so if your doctor's visit is 65, you only pay 5. Hmm, my dr charges 105, I only pay 10 with my major insurance. It's funny, on the webpage; they leave out all of the small, fine print, unless I didn't do enough research in their webpage. But if you go to www.fibi.com/laidlaw that is the gimmick they offer, and the rates can be anywhere from 40 plus. Here is just an example of what I copied from the site. If you notice the mission of Fringe Benefit Group, you'll see why the benefits are what they are. I believe everyone 18 plus should have the desire to have great health insurance and find an employer that offers them. Just because someone is 18 or 21 does not mean that they will not need major health insurance such as Blue Cross Blue Shield, compared to someone who is 54.
One thing I've learned in this job is: Well I guess JK said it, this occ. is hard on bus driver's health- how many kids are we around whom give us their germs? Don’t forget, those of you with manual doors, repetitive job injuries, or even just being a school bus driver with your hands on the wheels all day, CTS possibility. I just like knowing that I can visit the doctor anytime I want and not have to worry about the foolish games that Laidlaw or FS play with their money making insurance. The one thing that I have going for me, is I have two jobs, but I have seniority at my other job so I can work as many hours as I want or as least hours as I want, and if the benefit's change at the bus driving job (I doubt they will) I will just go back on my second employer's plan, which will mean cutting hours driving the bus and adding hours @ Job 2. Its benefits that also retain at least for me, even more so than pay.
Doctor's Office Visit
Doctor’s Office Visits are payable at $60 per covered person, per Doctor’s office visit.
There is a $300 maximum benefit per person, per calendar year. Calendar year runs from January 1 to December 31.
This benefit covers trips to the Doctor when there is something wrong (sickness, injury, etc.) with you. Routine exams (physicals), routine medical treatments, and routine injections are not covered. They may be covered under the Wellness Care benefit, though.
For Example: A Doctor charged you $65 for a visit. The plan would pay the first $60 and you would be responsible for $5 ($65 - $60 = $5).
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 01:01:35 AM
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Ooops the fine print was right in front of my face on the webpage, so I guess that's good of them. But in the flyer, they put that on pg.2, and do most bus drivers even understand what that means? (i'm not saying that in a bad way but it took me a few minutes to really understand it)
The HealthWise Choice Plan is designed to provide affordable and valuable benefits that will help pay for day-to-day healthcare expenses. It’s a limited benefit plan and is NOT a major medical or catastrophic policy. Nor is it designed to replace or provide major medical insurance coverage. |
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UncleNeal
Senior Member
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 12:23:34 PM
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| One small (but interesting) item to note: the "First Student Watch" website is operated by SEIU and may be a bit biased since First Student is not "union friendly" and SEIU may be trying to further their own agenda. Beware of websites like this one promoting an uneven view. |
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Sherm
Top Member
USA
621 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 1:19:46 PM
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A couple of thoughts on benefits...
I'm a full-time salaried employee and I'm worried about the future of my own benefits. The way things are going now, any job with benefits will be a rarity in a few years. Benefits issues aren't just a school bus industry problem; they are a societal problem.
We've offered benefits to our drivers for years and all but a few don't take them. The reason? They are retired or employed elsewhere or are on a spouse's plan and don't want them. So, from the company's point of view - why pay out the nose for benefits relatively few people want? Maybe if districts and contractors were able to offer better benefits we could attract a few more good folks. But I doubt it would make a huge impact. I've seen my drivers negotiate away a lot of good benefits and perks for a higher hourly rate and I suspect the same would happen with better benefits. |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 7:50:44 PM
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You're right Sherm. If there is a choice between a higher hourly rate and benefits, the higher hourly rate will usually prevail. Drivers usually think along the lines, that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Many times both, as a contract manager and driver, I've heard drivers ask the question, but what if I never need it? If I never need benifits, do I get my money back?
I would like to see the company provide free benefits, and if not that, then at least make them affordable. But the fewer people you have enrolling, the more the premiums will be. We at one point had negotiated with Kaiser Permenente to be our medical provider, but so few people participated, we were forced to withdraw. |
William |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 8:07:38 PM
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Amendment to the Constitution of the United States should be put in to place.
XXVIII: All employers who employ 50 or more employees must carry major health and dental insurance @ affordable rates!
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Edited by - 80-RE4 on 03/02/2006 8:08:20 PM |
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Sherm
Top Member
USA
621 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 05:44:35 AM
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| The insurance companies dictate the rates; not the employers. Most employers pay more than half of the cost of insurance; the employee pays the balance through payroll deductions. Complaining to the company about expensive insurance will do nothing; it's the insurance companies that hold all the cards. |
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bosslady
Advanced Member
USA
336 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 07:21:42 AM
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I work for a small district who own their own buses. Due to the fact that our state legislature has cut education funding, the school does not have a lot of money, We still have a fair benefit pkg:
Insurance: Blue Cross Blue Shield/a good plan that pays well. The school pays all of the employee insurance and employee pays for your spouse and/or children.
Sick days: 10 per year for bus drivers. I get 11 a year.
Personal days: 2 per year
Your sick days may accumulate to 50. After it reaches 50, the employee is paid each year in February for any days over 50. I had 61 days this year so I got paid for 11 days. A nice little bonus.
In June, you are paid for any of the 2 personal days you do not use. It makes me not want to miss work.
Holidays: for bus drivers 5 a year.
If a small school district like we are can afford to pay their bus drivers these benefits, I'm quite sure a large company like First Student could afford it.
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 07:35:46 AM
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Bosslady, I was shocked when the First Student person told me that they couldn’t afford to carry health insurance. I felt like cracking up because I can't see how a corporation so large like first student can't afford it. It's called being cheap to make more $. You guys have a nice package. I think my bus company offers a nice package also compared to other transportation contractors when you compare them side by side.
The company I work for now:
BLUECROSSBLUESHIELD - HMO 50 bucks/wk for single plan (works for me)
Delta Dental- 10 bucks per week
401 k- they contribute a percentage
15.70 Per hour
Compare that to First Student- they offer nothing in my general area, pay 15.
Compare that to Laidlaw-
Blue Cross Blue Shield: 150 dollars per week
Met Life Dental: 14 per week
401 k: they contributed 0
Pay: 12.70
It all comes down to numbers and what's important to one, might not be important to another. Some might go after the rate of pay because their spouse already has medical and dental that they are on, so benefits may not be an issue to them. So I guess the issue is, chose what is right for you and go where your needs will be met and where you are happy. When I was with Laidlaw, I didn't care about the health or dental insurance because they were for 1. A joke and 2. I had coverage through my other employer and I decided to cut hours there and 3. Being an f/t college student I need to have a major plan for college enrollment.
So I guess it all comes down to making the decision that best fits your needs. I think the company I work for thrives to meet its employee’s needs by offering a generous benefits package that Laidlaw, Durham; First Student can’t even come close to. (In MY general area)
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Sherm
Top Member
USA
621 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 07:53:46 AM
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If you work for a district you will generally see better benefits; they can "piggy back" the part timers onto the coverage provided to the full timers (teachers, administrators, etc.) When the money gets tight, they cut somewhere else, ask the government for more, or raise your taxes. If you employ a large group of part timers, good luck finding an insurance company to underwrite coverage that is affordable.
If school bus drivers were classified as full time, the insurance issue might change somewhat. |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2006 : 04:24:27 AM
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| Laidlaw classified us as full time drivers if you worked 20 hours or more. Go figure! |
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DanLJ
Advanced Member
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2006 : 06:48:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by amtran re 4
Laidlaw classified us as full time drivers if you worked 20 hours or more. Go figure!
In the modern world of "human resources" and political correctness the term "full time" can have many different definitions.
In terms of "benefits" the term "full time" usually establishes a minimum number of hours worked for an employee to be eligible for "benefits." The number of hours required varies from company to company and state to state.
Our local public school district uses 30 hours as the benchmark to qualify somebody for the benefits package.
The local transportation contractor (First Student) I believe uses 20 hours, which represents five work days at four hours per day.
WalMart, to the best of my knowledge, tries to keep it's "part time" employees below 32 hours, after which they are considered to be working full time and eligible for benefits.
In the final analysis benefits for employees in our industry have to be a goal of the school district, whether transportation is provided by the district or through contracted services. The District is the one who has to ante up the money to pay for the benefits.
Public employees receive benefits that are subsidized by the taxpayer and, usually, administered through a state-sponsored program to reduce overhead expenses. Shortfalls are typically made up in the short run by the public entity absorbing additional expenses, longer term adjustments are made by either raising premiums or taxes collected.
The whole subject of benefits, as somebody has already stated, is not unique to the transportation industry. It is a nation-wide issue that cuts across all occupations in virtually every industry. A decent employee-only health benefits package costs $400-$500 per month, make it employee and spouse coverage and the costs go up to about $650-$750 per month. Family coverage is even higher.
We have been struggling with this issue for years, and will probably continue to struggle with it for years to come. There is no easy answer and, most assuredly, there is no "cheap or inexpensive" answer. |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2006 : 3:52:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sherm
... We've offered benefits to our drivers for years and all but a few don't take them. The reason? They are retired or employed elsewhere or are on a spouse's plan and don't want them. ...
The above statement confuses me. If you mean only a few want the benefit, how then is it that expensive to fully cover those few that want it? If it is that the result makes it so that not enough members signed up to get a good rate, what prevents employers from pooling their personnel together with other nearby similar employers and looking for a health provider to accept that arrangement as one group? (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library Updated
New Hostage Takeover, bus fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
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bobrien
Active Member
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2006 : 08:00:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by NewBee Driver
quote:
Originally posted by Amtran RE #4
One thing I don't understand is- First Student does not offer any health insurance.
Where are you getting this info. I have worked for First Student for 3 years and have had full benifits avalible to me the entire time. Like most employers these days they are getting more expencive, But they are availible. Please check your facts in the future.
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bobrien
Active Member
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2006 : 08:07:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by NewBee Driver
quote:
Originally posted by Amtran RE #4
One thing I don't understand is- First Student does not offer any health insurance.
Where are you getting this info. I have worked for First Student for 3 years and have had full benifits avalible to me the entire time. Like most employers these days they are getting more expencive, But they are availible. Please check your facts in the future.
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bobrien
Active Member
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2006 : 08:11:18 AM
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re: First Student drivers, looking for any First Student driver for info on health ins plans they offer in other states-do they offer any
thing besides US Now plans to Drivers??? I know management & the bus mechanics here have Aetna-which we as drivers had 2 years ago. since then it has really gone down hill. really wud like some input/thanks |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 11:35:37 AM
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I've just went through two major surgeries on my legs at a cost of over $30,000.00. And it looks like will be off work a total of 8 to 10 weeks.
My medical insurance will cover all but about $500.00. And my income is covered by my earned sick leave.
The fact is, my employer, through many years of union negotiations, provides decent medical and income loss coverage to this profession.
I do not believe, based on known employer behavior toward employees, that such decent treatment toward wage earners would have ever happened without active and effective union involvement.
There are perhaps a few cases in this industry where the decent private or government employer does recognize the importance of providing a living wage and protecting employees from financial catastrophe. I believe this the case, even without a union involved, but so few are they as to not have much effect outside their own locality.
I'm covered, and I apologize for an industry that lacks the decency to establish a national standard for the decent treatment of school bus drivers basic needs. I can not explain why such does not exist, only pity a corrupted system that allows gross maltreatment of our nation's school bus drivers.
But I can say that wherever an employer does not at least provide their school bus drivers with superior medical coverage, those bus drivers are working for the wrong employer - period. This occupation is hard on bus drivers health and that does need to be compensated for.
Disaster will come to visit most every school bus driver in this country. Can you handle a $30,000 to $150,000 dollar bill from your caring, friendly hospital?
If not, stop allowing the abuse of yourself, your fellows, your family and your future. If it takes a union to force decent treatment for yourself and your country's fellows, then do what you have to do - for your own sake, the sake of your fellows and your family, and for your future.
Give your best to the best - leave the rest. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
New Hostage Takeover, bus fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 12:57:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bobrien
re: First Student drivers, looking for any First Student driver for info on health ins plans they offer in other states-do they offer any
thing besides US Now plans to Drivers??? I know management & the bus mechanics here have Aetna-which we as drivers had 2 years ago. since then it has really gone down hill. really wud like some input/thanks
BoBrien, I think you should listen to the advice jk has given. You had emailed me but I haven't checked back on AOl yet.
FIRST STUDENT does not care about you
Read this ten times over and over
First Student does not care about your health
First Student does not care about your health
First student does not care about your health
Keep reading that over and over
Why would you want to work for them?
Here is what I suggest. Find a job that you can work at that offers health and dental and drive a school bus part time. Why risk it?
Also i just wanted to add: Yes there are some FS that have insurance: Some are union -I only know of ONE unionized FS branch that carries reliable health insurance. I also know of another FS branch that is unionized and they do NOT have Health Insurance.
You are being taken for a ride. That's all there is to it. You might want to do this: Apply at a grocery store, a hardware store, maybe even Starbucks, they offer benefits for 20 hours or so. Arrange your hours accordingly. Then tell FS that you are only available a certain number of hours (say AM or PM only) or when needed.
Why risk it? They are a huge employer. That should be illegal for them to do that. BUt then, look @ Wal-Mart, Look at Dunkin DOnuts.
Why would they offer you good insurance? First Student is out there trying to get low bids so they can take over contracts so expand, just think about it. It's exploitation of school bus drivers. I don't care what anyone else says.
Can I ask you something Bobrain.ian...Did you realize what kind of plan you were signing up for? Or did it look all sweet and great when you did?? |
Edited by - 80-RE4 on 04/16/2006 1:04:22 PM |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 1:17:01 PM
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After readint this article, FS makes me sick (that's nasty, I would be right there walking out with those drivers) I hope Laidlaw gets in there, more than Durham. I don't really like Durham.
www.dailyiowan.com" target="_blank">http://www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/paper599/news/2006/04/10/Metro/District.May.Take.Bus.Bids-1802859.shtml?norewrite200604161623&sourcedomain=www.dailyiowan.com
District may take bus bids
Danny Valentine - The Daily Iowan
Issue date: 4/10/06 Section: Metro
PrintEmail Article Tools Page 1 of 1 The Iowa City School District plans to bid out its current school-bus contract with First Student Inc., the first time the contract has ever been in limbo, Superintendent Lane Plugge said on Sunday.
Talk of having a new bus provider for the district comes a week after as many as 60 First Student Inc. bus drivers went on a one-day strike, causing delays for numerous students.
"This is something we have considered in the past," Plugge said. "[But] what's been happening in the last few weeks has certainly accelerated the process."
Last year, the district discussed the possibility of bidding out because of concerns with the level of service provided by First Student, a Cincinnati-based company that manages school-bus operations nationwide.
However, the district established performance expectations and negotiated a deal in which it did not have to pay the full price.
Plugge said the district has already contacted Laidlaw International Inc. and Durham School Services to see if they would be interested in picking up the contract. The district will not try to run its own buses because start-up costs would range from $6 million to $7 million, Plugge said.
"It's cost-prohibitive," he said.
Plugge said he is unaware of how long the bidding process will take or if other companies will have enough time to make a bid on the contract for the 2006-07 school year. The process is new to most people at the district, he said.
Union organizers did not immediately return calls Sunday, but they have said they would strike again if they weren't given a fair chance at unionizing.
Complaints by current bus employees that other groups used the yellow vehicles for "beer runs," often times leaving buses covered in beer and other bodily fluids, have not gone unheard.
"I asked them to stop that last week," Plugge said, adding the current contracts only permit bus use for school-related activities. "[In order to] honor these contracts they would have to bring in other buses. We want them to honor the letter of the contract."
Bus drivers, First Student officials, and the National Labor Relations Board are in the process of organizing a vote to unionize. Bus drivers returned from their day-long walkout April 4, hoping they would receive a speedy election without interference from First Student.
E-mail DI reporter Danny Valentine at:
daniel-valentine@uiowa.edu
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NewBee Driver
Senior Member
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 2:00:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by #80AmtranRE4
FIRST STUDENT does not care about you
Read this ten times over and over
First Student does not care about your health
First Student does not care about your health
First student does not care about your health
I have said this to you before, but this post REQUIRES me to say it once again. You have ZERO inside knowlage of this company, the company that I work for and love. For you to make these comments with the complete lack of knowlage that you poses is nothing short of slanderous. In three years i have never felt less then completely apreciated and cared about by my employer. First Student is a great company that does what it can fiscaly to take care of its employees.
Perhaps since you are so grossly misinformed about First Student you may be misinformed about the rest of this industry as well. You may not be aware that in almost any school district in this great country, transpertation is one if not the LOWEST funded areas. Districts and Contractor are given a budget that will bearly buy ground beef and are expected to provide full steak dinners.
Are we as drivers paid enough? Not a chance. Do we as an INDUSTRY have the best medical care? Again Not a chance. But the cause of this is NOT First Student, Laidlaw, Durham, or any other contractor or district. THe blame can be places squarely on the shoulders of Tax Payers and School boards. Tax Payers seldom give districts the funding needed, and what they are given, school boards even more infrequently perportion the funding properly. Choosing to cater first to the influential and afluent areas and parents before throwing the spare change to the rest of the nesicary fields and services.
Some of you are quick to sing the praises of Unions to get what we are most assuredly desirving of. To do this you chose to walk out on your job and responcibilities, neglecting the children that we all claim to love and care for. For the Districts that are forced to give in to the demands of unions, they are required to do so at the detriment of safety and quality by providing an inadiquate numbers of vehicle technicians, and the safety features provided by NEW equipment to drive.
Will I agree that First Student is unable to provide me with the health coverage that i would like? Absolutly. But i do not and will not except that it is a choice that they make out of spite and lack of compassion, but rather out of a duty to provide the safest possible transportation to the students that we have the oportunity to transport. Until the tax payers and school boards get there heads out of a very dark and smelly place, we will unfortunatly continue to see such problems around the country. |
Driving Seattle To School - And Loving It!! |
Edited by - NewBee Driver on 04/16/2006 2:02:51 PM |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 4:27:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by NewBee Driver
quote:
Originally posted by #80AmtranRE4
FIRST STUDENT does not care about you
Read this ten times over and over
First Student does not care about your health
First Student does not care about your health
First student does not care about your health
I have said this to you before, but this post REQUIRES me to say it once again. You have ZERO inside knowlage of this company, the company that I work for and love. For you to make these comments with the complete lack of knowlage that you poses is nothing short of slanderous. In three years i have never felt less then completely apreciated and cared about by my employer. First Student is a great company that does what it can fiscaly to take care of its employees.
Perhaps since you are so grossly misinformed about First Student you may be misinformed about the rest of this industry as well. You may not be aware that in almost any school district in this great country, transpertation is one if not the LOWEST funded areas. Districts and Contractor are given a budget that will bearly buy ground beef and are expected to provide full steak dinners.
Are we as drivers paid enough? Not a chance. Do we as an INDUSTRY have the best medical care? Again Not a chance. But the cause of this is NOT First Student, Laidlaw, Durham, or any other contractor or district. THe blame can be places squarely on the shoulders of Tax Payers and School boards. Tax Payers seldom give districts the funding needed, and what they are given, school boards even more infrequently perportion the funding properly. Choosing to cater first to the influential and afluent areas and parents before throwing the spare change to the rest of the nesicary fields and services.
Some of you are quick to sing the praises of Unions to get what we are most assuredly desirving of. To do this you chose to walk out on your job and responcibilities, neglecting the children that we all claim to love and care for. For the Districts that are forced to give in to the demands of unions, they are required to do so at the detriment of safety and quality by providing an inadiquate numbers of vehicle technicians, and the safety features provided by NEW equipment to drive.
Will I agree that First Student is unable to provide me with the health coverage that i would like? Absolutly. But i do not and will not except that it is a choice that they make out of spite and lack of compassion, but rather out of a duty to provide the safest possible transportation to the students that we have the oportunity to transport. Until the tax payers and school boards get there heads out of a very dark and smelly place, we will unfortunatly continue to see such problems around the country.
NeewBee, I am sorry If I offended your place of employment, and your employer. I didn't mean to offend you.
Bo-Brien is paying almost 150. per week I believe for a health insurance that I believe that is similar to that offered by my school for college students. Most people know that college health insurance is as low as you can go.
If you are going to dedicate your time, your life, your skills, your knowledge, and yourself to a company, that company should offer to you, health insurance, such as BlueCross BlueSheild or comparable.
I did not mean by ways of saying that "First Student" does not care about your health. I am sure your manager, your co-workers, and so forth do, I know they do, or hope they do. I was talking about the company in a whole, whoever who sets up these bogus plans.
I would forgo a 1.50 pay cut for benefits such as BCBS, they are that important these days. What's a bus driver to do if they were injured? Became ill?
You are right; I don't have any inside knowledge of this company because I have never worked for them. I can only go on the information gathered, and I am sure you enjoy working at First Student, and I'm sure others do to. I have friends that enjoy it, but as far as the plan offered to BoBrien, that's just crazy.
Nothing like throwing your money out the door-. I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I work in a non union company, receive excellent health and dental, 401 k and paid holidays.
Sorry to offend, just think it's wrong what FS is doing to those who are dedicated to get up each morning and drive those buses, I think it's shameful; I don't believe it's slander, It's my opinion.
When Laidlaw split, while Durham and First Student were still working on the contracts, Durham didn't get the dental insurance, but First Student did, some drivers went right to FS, but FS is at capacity now. It depends on the branch and the union representing it.
I am not misinformed about the school bus industry, I am very well informed. I wish drivers were more appreciated, I wish ALL drivers working for ALL companies received the best health care, I wish drivers were praised more, I wish drivers were given the respect they deserve, I've been in this occupation for five years, I do understand the industry. Sorry If I led you to believe otherwise. |
Edited by - 80-RE4 on 04/16/2006 4:34:46 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 5:55:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by NewBee Driver
... You have ZERO inside knowlage of this company, the company that I work for and love. For you to make these comments with the complete lack of knowlage that you poses is nothing short of slanderous. ...
Perhaps since you are so grossly misinformed about First Student you may be misinformed about the rest of this industry as well. ...
It does seem to me that you may be grossly misinformed as to how this industry evolved, including who established and continues to maintain artificially low incomes and poor benefits for school bus drivers. It ain't the taxpayers and never was the tax payers. Do your research before slandering the taxpayers.
Requiring proper bidding criteria would end low-balling bids, and most often end the profiteering of privates in this industry. With few exceptions a well run public school bus service can pay the bus drivers well, including excellent benefits, provide and maintain mechanically safe buses as well as or better and at less cost than that a profit entity.
Surprised you or anyone else would dispute that reality. It is simply that what would be corporate and stockholder profits remain in the school and community when the service is owned and maintained by the school district. How hard is that to understand?
You acknowledge all the issues, concerning the maltreatment of school bus drivers in this profession, then attack the very services that have done more than anyone else in this industry to improve decent treatment toward our nation's school bus drivers. I find that fascinating.
I dislike unions, regardless, respect the fact that it is union representation that has made the biggest difference in the fair treatment of school bus drivers on a national scale - significantly higher pay, better benefits and much better treatment on the job in the greater industry arena. Unions - unions! - not the employer you so mushingly promote.
And to say that if FS paid their bus drivers decently and with excellent medical benefits, that would then mean providing unsafe buses? Where did that come from?
Do you really think we here are so stupid that what was presented in your post has real validity? Hey, if it gets you headed toward some management position, then, of course, blow your employer's horn. Go ahead and practice here - dish it out with free donuts. Simply put, expect as well a retort from here.
This industry has gotten itself into dire straits - did it to itself - no one, not any school or agency did it to them.
Babble on if you must, but for me, and I would hope for many here, the effort remains now to do whatever we can to help promote establishing nationwide standards that bring the restoration and the decent treatment breathed back into this industry.
If not done for ourselves in our days, then for our fellows at some point in the future. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
New Hostage Takeover, bus fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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NewBee Driver
Senior Member
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 9:10:06 PM
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JK, you say that the problems are based on low-balling bids. Lets look at the reason that bids have to be so low. 1) School boards are down right stupid in how they alocate the money. And 2) Tax payers DO NOT provide enough money and then require ridiculous programs and alocations that do absolutly nothing for 95% of the student population.
Do you not agree that a contractor would rather provide a proper bid that would provide great benifits, a resonable wage, as well as the ability to have the best equipment and care for said equipment, plus have a comfortable margin to actually make money. The sad fact is that any contactor that presented any type bid would be laughed out the door because it would be 1.5 if not 2 times higher then any other bid there. The critera that DISTRICTS provide us is what forms the bids NOT the "money grubbing contractor"
As far as me babbling on, far from it. But there are several on this forum that say things that are left un-checked. When an untruth is said about my company I am going to call it and state the ACTUAL reason, even if you chose not to see the reality. You think i am trying to get ahead in my company, while that is not somthing I would turn down, for now, I simply want TRUTH. |
Driving Seattle To School - And Loving It!! |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2006 : 08:53:13 AM
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Your response is well presented and eloquent.
Regardless, a claim that taxpayers not providing the money is not the the actual issue and can not be used as an excuse for the maltreatment rampaging this profession and throughout the public education arena.
Both public and private transportation services exist, including FS and Laidlaw, that are providing the standards I'm saying must be in place to restore this industry to necessary professional standards.
My earlier post, concerning excellent medical coverage, as well as excellent income protection for me and my family, is a direct result of intervention services from union negotiations.
That's a sad statement that applies virtually across the board in this industry, with an occasional exception. Overall the statement is a truism, which is what you say you want - the truth.
I have no explanation for a disgusting anomaly present toward professional employees. Higher education achievement and knowledge would suggest an outcome representing a greater level of decency in the workplace. Yet, I can say that the public education bureaucracy is one of the most horrific abusers toward the treatment of both employees and children, not just school bus drivers. I do not understand this anomaly, have trouble accepting it, but the evidence is there.
However, not for a moment do I believe school boards or contractors are stupid, in the sense presented in your post. More along the line of manipulators corrupting both the workplace environment and the competitive marketplace.
The result - poor pay, poor or nonexistent medical and other benefits, are calculated outcomes - deliberate and with the end result known.
I do not consider repressed wages itself some sort of conspiracy, but merely advantage and abuse acting itself out on an industry-wide scale. The maltreatment evidenced toward the school bus driving profession is the tip of the public education iceberg, in my opinion.
Very odd, that you deny low-bidding, while acknowledging that a proper bid might be 1.5 - 2 times higher than any other bid there. It's so obvious, when including decent treatment toward school bus drivers, the bid is logically going to be higher. It is however, not nearly as high as you proposed - but would remain sufficient that a low-ball bid can take the contract away from a proper bid.
Therein is the manipulation of the industry, with willing participants, which excludes taxpayers. Parents, in truth, are appalled when informed and aware of how this corrupting of competition standards affects the safety of their children and workplace environments.
Consider background checks, as one obvious example of corruption: I believe some in the industry seems to have become so desperate for cheap labor that background checks can prevent from hiring, that more than a few are simply side-stepping the checks any convenient way imaginable.
I can no longer remember the state where parole services helped convicted criminals get jobs driving school bus. In Michigan a few years ago a pedophile school bus driver engaged in sexual activities with a 15 year-old student passenger. She became pregnant shortly after turning 16. A school district official said because they didn't find out about it prior to the girl turning 16 that there was nothing they could do about it.
According to a Readers Digest story several years ago: Only thirty-one states mandate background checks for all school personnel (except contract employees); 35 states allow employees to begin work while awaiting results. Some states don't administer background checks. And the checks that are done can be incomplete, may not extend beyond state borders or are frequently held up by lengthy processing.
The corruption of standards and the resulting circle involved here is viscous, has been made that way to apparently repress, not to blossom toward a restored industry.
Until BOTH, applicant and employer, are subject to criminal charges or some other serious penalty, when shown to have ignored their responsibility to hire appropriate personal, I expect to see no change in this behavior from too many in this industry. And so it goes that low-balling is abundant were subversion is also abundant.
I can recall a school district in the news a few years back that said they were tired of the shortage and the excuses for a shortage of professional bus drivers. Milwaukee School Board member John Gardner said, "We simply have to have a higher quality of bus driver performing at a more professional level."
And this, from the same school board, is incredible: "The situation right now is very painful to the bus drivers, and what it represents is publicly endorsed exploitation of low-income workers," board member Jennifer Morales, backed by Gardner and two of her six other colleagues, said, "I do not want to be a party to that."
The MPS board then encouraged drivers to work with unions to help end bus driver maltreatment in their school system. So who in this story would one think was dead against a plan as noble as this one? I'm not surprised to include the MPS administration.
And consider this, in favor of your thoughts. The drivers unionized, as encouraged by the MPS board in their noble and grand display of decency toward rejecting the, "exploitation of low-income workers."
When the new bidding process was complete those unionized drivers employer lost the contract to a low-ball non-union bidder. In reality the bid was unusually higher without adequate explanation for the increase, that is an explanation sufficient to cover potential increases in unionized driver pay and benefits.
And again, the bus drivers were repressed, to injury this time, by both a school board and contractors abuse of the competitive process. In came a low-ball bid the board latched onto. So long other guys.
As far as the truth, at no time, not now, before or ever, ought this industry been allowed to reach the point of decay becoming more apparent these days. There's no excuse for the abuse of children and the maltreatment of their school bus drivers - no excuse for the apparent increasing cancer harming this industry. None.
The corruption will pass, in my opinion. And I believe that ending will be accomplished by parents, teachers, unions, and perhapswith some help from the courts - and not by school boards, contractors, industry associated government agencies or by the public education bureaucracy overall.
Just as an example to demonstrate how teachers are responding to a cancer in their profession: Nationwide, public school teachers are almost twice as likely as other parents to choose private schools for their own children, a study by the Thomas B. Fordham Institute found.
In Philadelphia, 44 percent of the teachers put their children in private schools; in Cincinnati, 41 percent; Chicago, 39 percent; Rochester, N.Y., 38 percent. The same trends showed up in the San Francisco-Oakland area, where 34 percent of public school teachers chose private schools for their children; 33 percent in New York City and New Jersey suburbs; and 29 percent in Milwaukee and New Orleans.
The reason, according to the study: Public school teachers told the Fordham Institutes's surveyors that private and religious schools impose greater discipline, achieve higher academic achievement and offer overall a better atmosphere.
"These results do not surprise most practicing teachers to whom we speak," say report authors Denis P. Doyle, founder of a school improvement company, SchoolNet Inc.; Brian Diepold, an economics graduate student at American University; and David A. DeSchryver, editor of the Doyle Report, an online education policy and technology journal.
"Teachers, it is reasonable to assume, care about education, are reasonably expert about it and possess quite a lot of information about the schools in which they teach. We can assume that no one knows the condition and quality of public schools better than teachers who work in them every day."
"They know from personal experience that many of their colleagues make such a choice [for private vs. public schools], and do so for good and sufficient reasons."
A people aware of the truth will not tolerate or trust their children to continued abuse by a national public school system too corrupted to right itself.
We may all someday be driving for private schools.
Yes, I do think you are trying to get ahead in your company, and agree that is not something you would or should turn down were the opportunity presented. That, in itself, is not a bad thing, and I wish you well in that regard. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
New Hostage Takeover, bus fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2006 : 3:06:54 PM
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JK knows full well that he cannot compare a school district to a private company. That district is feeding from the public trought just like any other government entity. Since they are subsidized by the taxpayers they can afford all the things a company with an eye on the bottom line cannot. These districts have no profit margin to worry about, so they are sometimes extravagant. This does not mean, however, that a private company should not provide decent pay and benefits.
But when these districts themselves use private companies or stop operating school buses, the last thing they think about is the drivers. |
William |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2006 : 8:00:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by william
JK knows full well that he cannot compare a school district to a private company. ...
Of course public school owned v/s private is compared all the time - and distorted to support whatever a school district administration is pushing for.
I fully and completely agree that, "... when these districts themselves use private companies or stop operating school buses, the last thing they think about is the drivers."
Therein again is the actual issue revealing itself to the obvious - the failure to establish a professional standard sufficient to level the playing field when considering contracting v/s school district owned. Where there is no corporate profit margin and stockholder dividends, then, yes, there is room for the so-called extravagant - such as decent pay and decent benefits.
It would be wrong to think that I'm against private contractors. What I'm against is maltreatment against the school bus driver profession, whether accomplished by a transportation service owned by a school district or by a private contractor. Both are like scum in my opinion.
Establish a professional standard and let the chips fall where they may. The math with tell the story here. (jk)
Conquering Private Contractors
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
New Hostage Takeover, bus fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Edited by - JK on 04/18/2006 10:34:38 AM |
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Bad Rep Costs First Student a Contract
