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Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
Top Member
Canada
1180 Posts |
 Posted - 10/14/2005 : 1:45:52 PM
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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - Chatham Daily News - Chatham, ON, Canada -- The tragic death of a four-year-old Thunder Bay girl on a school bus could improve local bus safety.
Officials with the Lambton Kent District School Board have approached local bus operators about first aid and CPR training for bus drivers.
The move comes in response to recommendations from the coroner’s inquest into the death of Allyceea Ennis, who died on Feb. 12, 2004, after being found unresponsive on her school bus.
Investigation revealed she died of asphyxia due to pressure applied to her neck. However, it couldn’t be determined if the pressure was a result of her clothing becoming entangled or a result of force to the neck involving another child on the bus.
"Student safety would be our No. 1 concern," said Gayle Stucke, director of education for the public board.
"The more people with first aid the better, whether in classrooms, homes or on buses."
Stucke said first aid and CPR training haven’t been a requirement for local bus drivers, although drivers have some training in dealing with emergency situations and defensive driving.
However, "we notified them at this point . . . it’s an issue we want to get on the table," the school board official said.
The inquest also recommended that children up to the age of five and weighing less than 50 pounds be secured in approved child safety restraints; and that adult monitors be put on buses that transport junior and senior kindergarten children.
Superintendent of education David Doey, in a report to the board, noted that provincial legislation now requires the use of booster seats, depending on age and weight, in vehicles with a capacity of fewer than 10 passengers.
Stucke said that would apply to special needs children transported to school in taxis.
"And it will impact parent volunteers driving," she said.
She added the onus is on the schools to ensure the volunteer drivers have the required seats.
As for the adult monitors, Stucke said that’s a cost issue because the government doesn’t provide funding for that.
She added, the issue also needs more study since there are concerns about how much they would be able to see on a crowded bus.
click for story |
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IC RE 1629
Top Member
United States
5097 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2005 : 3:07:08 PM
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This comes as a suprise to me. I had always thought that it was federal law that school bus drivers be trained in first aid and CPR.
I think it should be a federal law. It would be one law that could save alot of lives. |
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CountGirl
Top Member
USA
823 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2005 : 6:21:25 PM
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1629 - I don't know if it is federal law (First Aid/CPR are required at First Student) but even if it is in the United States, this incident happened in Canada. I applaud Canada for finally getting the issue on the table - it needed to be on there a long time ago.
Count |
Give me a yellow object. Yes. Right now. I need my yellow chocolate, for goodness sake! |
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JC Theriault
Top Member
Canada
1326 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2005 : 12:59:01 AM
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School bus transportation in Canada is a mostly provincial/territorial issue and most regions require school bus drivers to have basic first-aid skills but there are still some school boards who don't mandate it.
The feds can't even get our finances straightened out so look out if they got their fingers into your children's busing.
JC |
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Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
Top Member
Canada
1180 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2005 : 04:27:50 AM
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Who does what in Ontario:
(Federal) Transport Canada [similar to NHTSA]: - responsible for setting standards for new vehicles, including for school buses.
- conducts ongoing research into school bus safety issues, amends existing vehicle safety standards as required.
- collects and monitors Canadian collision statistics.
(Provincial) Ontario Ministry of Transportation: - responsible for establishing rules and regulations pertaining to vehicles, driver qualifications and licensing, and vehicle inspections (Highway Traffic Act)
- also regulates deployment of safety equipment unique to school buses, ie. stop arm and overhead flashing lights.
(Provincial) Ontario Ministry of Education: - provides grants to school boards for the purchase of student transportation services if individual school boards choose to provide transportation.
(Local) School Boards: - not required to provide transportation services.
- responsibility of each individual school board to develop and maintain transportation policies, including safety provisions.
- determine and contract services for their students. (Only a few boards operate their own buses)
At this point some individual school boards require First Aid / CPR training for contracted drivers. The Minister of Transportation is considering legislating it as a requirement for school bus drivers' licensing as was recommended by Ontario's Chief Coroner following Allyceea's death.
Ontario School Bus Association website
Ministry of Transportation website |
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JC Theriault
Top Member
Canada
1326 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2005 : 05:15:22 AM
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It shouldn't be a requirement to get your school bus license endorsement but rather a condition of employment prior to getting behind the wheel with a load of students. I don't see a need for a trainee to have first-aid completed before taking a road test as the possibility is there that they could fail the test and/or decide driving a busload of children just isn't their "cup of tea" before actually accepting a job offer.
JC
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Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
Top Member
Canada
1180 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2005 : 10:03:20 AM
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The Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators (CCMTA) National Safety Code
The National Safety Code (NSC) for Motor Carriers was developed by the member jurisdictions of CCMTA in conjunction with the motor carrier industry.
"NSC Standard 16: First Aid Training" states:
It is recommended that commercial vehicle drivers take:
i) any course recognized by the applicable provincial agency as meeting the provincial requirements for occupational health and safety;
OR
ii) any first aid course which includes at a minimum all of the topics listed in Schedule 1.
NSC Standard 16: First Aid Training |
Edited by - Sandra (Ennis) Nunn on 10/16/2005 10:13:06 AM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2005 : 10:30:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JC Theriault
School bus transportation in Canada is a mostly provincial/territorial issue and most regions require school bus drivers to have basic first-aid skills but there are still some school boards who don't mandate it.
The feds can't even get our finances straightened out so look out if they got their fingers into your children's busing.
JC
I tend to agree with this. The drawbacks to requiring first aid are numerous, so much so that school districts are backing away from this requirement, instead opting for the fast response from qualified paramedics through radio or cell phone communications. The level of 'Good Samaritan" protection simply is not adequate these days. As it is now, you can be a hero one day and sued the next. If that could be fixed, I suppose basic first aid, kept within a simpler criteria, could be of use.
If school bus driver first response emergency care is allowed to expand much farther we could eventually expect to see a portable operating table mounted somewhere on the school bus, with the bus driver trained in basic surgery.
The greatest number of lives could be saved by simply slowing the buses down, requiring effective school bus driver violence prevention training and the authority to refuse transporting any child refusing to follow the bus driver's directions.
A combination of the two issues above could have a dramatic effect on saving lives inside and outside the buses, the second substantially reducing the need for the first, in my opinion. (jk)
Click Here to find out The #1 reason school bus drivers quit
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Edited by - JK on 10/16/2005 5:05:19 PM |
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coolbusdriver
Top Member
Canada
1509 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2005 : 2:46:29 PM
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I do not agree with requiring school bus drivers to have a first aide/cpr certificate. While I myself do have one, the response time for an ambulance or police in theis area is very fast and can quickly be dispatched when needed with a simple code one call on the radio. I agree with JK that time, energy and money would be better put into driver violence prevention training and the authority to refuse transporting any child refusing to follow the bus driver's directions.
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hotwheels
Active Member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2005 : 4:49:24 PM
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I am guessing that in the first place the requirement for First Student drivers to be trained in CPR and First Aid is only in Canada. Cause here in Jefferson City, Missouri they have really shyed away from the whole idea. I am the Safety Coordinator at my location and I just recently took over this position. I brought in the Red Cross at our last safety meeting and they went over a 30 Minute presintation about the basic idea of first aid. It was informative and it only cost $15 for it. Not bad on the budget. I am going to post a sighn up sheet for people to take a CPR/First Aid class but it has to be paid by the individual and it has to be off time. That way FS has nothing to do with it. I feel that if just one person leans this then it just may save a life. Nothing will ever be looked into until somthing bad happens. Then some elected offical will get this great idea and their approval rateings will go up and they will be deemed a hero. But if they do it before a tradegy happens then theyare spending too much money.
Just my 2 cents.
Kevin
"Life is Grand...But all I found was this Quarter." |
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Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
Top Member
Canada
1180 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2005 : 6:58:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JK
The drawbacks to requiring first aid are numerous, so much so that school districts are backing away from this requirement, instead opting for the fast response from qualified paramedics through radio or cell phone communications. (jk)
quote:
Originally posted by coolbusdriver
I do not agree with requiring school bus drivers to have a first aide/cpr certificate. While I myself do have one, the response time for an ambulance or police in theis area is very fast and can quickly be dispatched when needed with a simple code one call on the radio.
I live in rural Northwestern Ontario where the response time for ambulance, police, qualified paramedics or even local "first responders" is not fast.
"Nearly three-quarters of the schools in northern and eastern Ontario report some students on buses for over two hours a day" People for Education
"In some areas, children as young as 4 and 5 years old are already on buses for an hour and more each way" Elementary Teachers' Federation of Ontario
Parents and students riding school buses have valid safety concerns. (sn)
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Edited by - Sandra (Ennis) Nunn on 10/16/2005 7:02:02 PM |
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coolbusdriver
Top Member
Canada
1509 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 08:36:44 AM
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quote:
I live in rural Northwestern Ontario where the response time for ambulance, police, qualified paramedics or even local "first responders" is not fast.
"Nearly three-quarters of the schools in northern and eastern Ontario report some students on buses for over two hours a day" People for Education
"In some areas, children as young as 4 and 5 years old are already on buses for an hour and more each way" Elementary Teachers' Federation of Ontario
Then perhaps the solution would be to require it in these areas where things are so far apart.
In your area are you required to carry on your bus enough emergency blankets (those small silver ones) for each student in case of a break down in the winter? Or any other emergency gear that might be needed if you are stranded with students aboard. Here where I live it is not a problem, but up north this could mean the difference between making it home or freezing to death. |
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Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
Top Member
Canada
1180 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 10:11:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by coolbusdriver
Then perhaps the solution would be to require it in these areas where things are so far apart.
In your area are you required to carry on your bus enough emergency blankets (those small silver ones) for each student in case of a break down in the winter? Or any other emergency gear that might be needed if you are stranded with students aboard. Here where I live it is not a problem, but up north this could mean the difference between making it home or freezing to death.
Interesting question - although, I think the response time for emergency assistance is short enough to prevent freezing to death in this area.
The following do recommend first aid training:
Ontario's Chief Coroner (http://ogov.newswire.ca/ontario/GPOE/2004/11/10/c1066.html?lmatch=&lang=_e.html)
the American Academy of Pediatrics (http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/pediatrics;97/5/754.pdf)
the Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators (CCMTA) (http://www.ccmta.ca/english/pdf/nsc16_e.pdf)
and more recently, the Ontario Federation of Home and School Associations (OFHSA) (http://www.ofhsa.on.ca/briefs%2004-05/May%208%20School%20Bus.pdf)
who wrote in this regards:
"In recognition of the fact that the school bus driver is often the only adult accompanying children on a school bus, OFHSA members voted to approve a policy regarding safety training for all school bus drivers:"
"That all school bus drivers have current certification in first aid, cardiopulmonary resuscitation and emergency situation management and that this be a requirement to receive and maintain their school bus license issued through the Ministry of Transportation (2005).
"We do know from our participation on the school bus safety panel that this change requires a considerable investment of money and that it causes further hardships for the bus companies who have to ensure that their drivers have this training. We also know that bus operators who provide more training to their staff risk losing them to municipalities that pay higher wages. The retention of drivers is an enormous issue for these operators, and as long as the wages they can pay are so much lower than the municipalities pay, this will continue to be a problem."
"The issue of safety and first aid training for drivers was discussed at length by the membership, and the consensus was that the safety of children must come before other considerations. We recognize that requiring more training of drivers will drive up the costs for operators and drivers themselves, but members believe that as long as the driver is the only adult with the children on his or her route, he or she must have the training to meet the needs of the children in their care."
"Members voted to retain a long-standing OFHSA policy which calls for monitors on all school buses when no teacher is in attendance. If there are monitors on all school buses in the future, then the requirements for safety training could more appropriately be applied to the monitors than the bus drivers."
Sandy
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JC Theriault
Top Member
Canada
1326 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 10:38:32 AM
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I've been doing some thinking on the bus monitor issue and it raises this question: If monitors end up aboard buses that previously didn't have them then whats to stop the transportation provider from reducing the bus drivers pay since the perceived view from many will be that the bus driver is no longer performing all the tasks previously assigned to him/her?
I can see school board trying to justify the additional costs of monitors by cutting driver pay to calm the taxpayers who don't think a driver who is "simply driving the bus" is worth the (as an example) $12.00 an hour. Lets cut it to $8 and take the $4 difference as a way of subsidizing the monitor costs. I see driver turnover increasing again in the near future if this occurs.
JC |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2005 : 6:53:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JC Theriault
I've been doing some thinking on the bus monitor issue and it raises this question: If monitors end up aboard buses that previously didn't have them then whats to stop the transportation provider from reducing the bus drivers pay since the perceived view from many will be that the bus driver is no longer performing all the tasks previously assigned to him/her? ...
Adding monitors are not necessary to trigger tinkering with bus driver pay. If short-changing employees is an employer activity, then those employees are already getting hit, too often, it seems, without realizing it or after it's too late to change the outcome. The more complicated your pay arrangement then the more caution needed to track your payroll. Whatever the case, always track and store your daily time, including work at home time. Five years from now a sudden court decision could require your records to get properly paid were some sort of employer mischief uncovered. (jk)
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
Edited by - JK on 10/18/2005 7:00:34 PM |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2005 : 10:59:10 PM
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| In order to obtain a California Special Drivers Certificate (DL45) to operate a school bus in this state, you must pass a first aid exam administered by the CHP, or have in your possession a "first aid card" issued by the American Red Cross, or some other state approved entity. The card is valid for three years if you attend an American Red Cross course and for two years otherwise. If you can pass the state required test,(which is somewhat difficult),it is good throught the term of your certificate. If you waive the state first aid test, you must have in your possession a valid first aid card throughout the period of certificate validity which runs concurrently with your CDL. We have on-site, a first aid instructor who trains and issues first aid cards to drivers who do not desire to participate in the state first aid test. This requirement existed even before I became a school bus driver, back in August of 1986. |
William |
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bigbus9807
Active Member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2005 : 6:54:17 PM
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| I agree that schoolbus drivers should know first aid.I have been a driver since 96 and do not know first aid.We call our dispatcher if there are any problems on our buses.They call 911.The thing that scared me the most when I started driving special education children that were physically handicapped was that we weren't allowed to ask what was wrong with the child.One driver I know had a child having a grand mal seizure on her bus and she didn't know what to do.She didn't even know that the child had seizures.Sometimes privacy is taken too far.I think educating the drivers in first aid should be a requirement and drivers should be told what to expect ,and how to proceed in an emergency. |
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CPSBUS67
Senior Member
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2005 : 9:46:08 PM
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| first aid and cpr would be great for us drivers if the companys would ever do it but there is also a liability there too......dont get me wrong i think we should be trained also and as a first responder i have an obligation to render aid........but i must also contradict countgirl on the first student comment i also work for first student but we are not required to be first aid and cpr trained |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2005 : 12:20:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbus9807
... The thing that scared me the most when I started driving special education children that were physically handicapped was that we weren't allowed to ask what was wrong with the child.Sometimes privacy is taken too far.
When I see posts like this my response is a fit at an employer distorting school bus driver awareness through false laws. There is no such law that excludes the school bus driver, SPEC ED or Mainstream, from knowing a child's medical needs. Medical Information of this sort is excluded by inappropriate policy, not law. First aide or CPR under this banner of employer behavior should be a big red flag to bus drivers. (jk)
Click Here to find out The #1 reason school bus drivers quit
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2005 : 07:24:41 AM
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| I agree. |
William |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2005 : 5:08:02 PM
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| In California, the school bus driver comes under what is known as the Good Samaritan Rule. If a driver is giving a child first aid commensurate with his or her training, and as long as he or she acted in a resonable and prudent manner, no liability would attach. For example, if you had to use a tourniquet on an arm from which a hand had been severed, and the tourniquet resulted in the arm being amputated, you acted in a reasonable and prudent manner. The Good Samaritan Law does not apply to doctors, nurses and similiar proffessionals, however. |
William |
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First aid for bus drivers
