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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
 Posted - 07/26/2008 : 12:19:23 PM
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California's Newest Green Product - A Hybrid School Bus - Saves Fuel, Reduces Emissions
IC Bus Shows Positive First Year Results for Napa Valley School District
July 25 2008
Market Watch
NAPA, Calif., July 25, 2008 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Imagine the environmental impact if all of California's school buses were able to double their fuel efficiency and eliminate up to 40 percent of their greenhouse gas emissions. That's not the premise for a futuristic Hollywood movie, it's reality for one California school district.
IC Bus, LLC, the largest school bus manufacturer in North America and affiliate of Navistar, Inc., delivered a revolutionary new hybrid diesel electric school bus to Napa Valley Unified School District last August -- the only hybrid diesel electric school bus in California.
While most "diesel-only" powered school buses achieve an average of six to seven miles per gallon, Ralph Knight, transportation director at Napa Valley School District, was surprised to learn just how much fuel the hybrid diesel electric school bus could save.
After one school year and 13,000 miles, he was pleasantly surprised to learn that the fuel efficiency of the hybrid bus helped him reach close to 13 miles per gallon -- nearly double the fuel efficiency of a typical diesel school bus.
Based on 13,000 miles the hybrid bus traveled during the 2007-08 school year, annual fuel costs for a standard school bus would be just under $10,000 at $4.87 per gallon. Conversely, fuel for the hybrid bus costs approximately $5,000 at the same price per gallon.
"Fuel costs are a major concern to me," said Knight. "Cutting annual fuel costs in half for this bus is a major advantage -- both for taxpayers' wallets and for the environment."
Traveling about 65 miles per day, the hybrid bus typically transports roughly 60 children each morning and 60 each afternoon through a mixed route of highway and city driving.
"The children are excited to be riding one of the first hybrid school buses in the nation," said Knight. "The parents have also commented on the positive environmental benefits of the bus."
Drivers also enjoy driving the bus. To the driver, it operates similar to a standard school bus. However, the diesel engine receives assistance from an electric motor at certain points during acceleration and deceleration. The hybrid drive system on Napa Valley's bus is recharged by plugging it into a standard outlet at night or between morning and afternoon routes. ...
Click Here for full story
More information about the hybrid school bus can be found at http://www.icbus.com
Since the bus is plugged in to a standard outlet to recharge would then want to know the costs and the pollution contribution from using that source. Nothing in the story about that. (jk)
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There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
Edited by - JK on 07/26/2008 12:21:50 PM
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origcharger
Top Member
United States
619 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2008 : 8:20:31 PM
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$5,000 less per year in fuel costs? At that rate it will only take 25 years to start saving money.
What? You have to plug it into the power grid every night? The expensive battery pack or even the bus won't last that long? The kids in colder climates will get frostbite as the engine doesn't work hard enough to heat the bus?
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Operating; Seven T444Es, One MaxxForce 7, One VT365, Four DT466s, One E-450 6.0 and one Mercedes in a C2. |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2008 : 9:50:34 PM
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Hybrid buses at this point only benefit runs that are stop and go. More suburban and rural routes actually will see less fuel mileage due to the added weight of the batteries.
origcharger is right about the batteries as well, they will only last between 5-8 years and the cost is at least $20,000 if I recall my figures correctly.
I will be seeing another presentation on the hybrids here at the STN Conference and will report back soon. |
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ModMech
Top Member
USA
948 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2008 : 8:04:35 PM
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Fuel economy of a Hybrid bus like the IC Hybrid will NOT be lower than the same basic vehicle less the hybrid system.
In ALL applications the hybrid drive recovers otherwise wasted energy by recharging the batteries during decelerations and uses it to accelerate the vehicle from a stop or provide a big boost on grades.
The traditional PbNa battery is a dinosaur and will be extinct within the next 5-10 years unless the prices drop over 70%. This is due to new battery technologies that will be widely available this time next year for transport applications (cars, trucks, vans etc). This technology could make gasoline powered vehicles obsolete.
Seriously, this stuff IS COMMING, and will be available before the hybrid pack will be worn out. |
If you want customer service, you NEED an International! |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2008 : 10:58:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ModMech
Fuel economy of a Hybrid bus like the IC Hybrid will NOT be lower than the same basic vehicle less the hybrid system.
In ALL applications the hybrid drive recovers otherwise wasted energy by recharging the batteries during decelerations and uses it to accelerate the vehicle from a stop or provide a big boost on grades.
The traditional PbNa battery is a dinosaur and will be extinct within the next 5-10 years unless the prices drop over 70%. This is due to new battery technologies that will be widely available this time next year for transport applications (cars, trucks, vans etc). This technology could make gasoline powered vehicles obsolete.
Seriously, this stuff IS COMMING, and will be available before the hybrid pack will be worn out.
On a highway, the current hybrids get less miles per gallon than a standard bus. The electric motor doesnt do anything at high speeds.
I saw another presentation today on the hybrids and alternatives. What one T/D said really shocked a lot of people... his newer Cummins ISBs have been getting between 10-12 MPG. So for $80,000 he is getting the same mileage, or perhaps 1-2 less MPG than a $225,000 hybrid.
In areas where the IC body will rot after 10 years you will NEVER make up the cost of the intial investment. In areas with no rust, like California, they may make up the cost after 20 years, but only if the cost of battery replacement comes down.
I dont think we will see a hybrid bus worth buying for another 10 years. I do give IC a lot of credit for pushing this bus, but they should focus on getting better efficiency in the first place like Cummins and Mercedes. |
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YellowBox
Advanced Member
Puerto Rico (USA)
254 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 12:50:26 PM
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I saw another presentation today on the hybrids and alternatives. What one T/D said really shocked a lot of people... his newer Cummins ISBs have been getting between 10-12 MPG. So for $80,000 he is getting the same mileage, or perhaps 1-2 less MPG than a $225,000 hybrid.
I do give IC a lot of credit for pushing this bus, but they should focus on getting better efficiency in the first place like Cummins and Mercdez
Fuel Eficiency of DIESEL ENGINES will IMPROVE with TECHNOLOGY. And DIESEL FUEL will also mprove its chemistry. Now SHELL PETROLEUM is promoting its GTL(GAS TO LIQUIDS) Technology in wich NATURAL GAS is liqufied and throught a process they can produce GTL based fuels and they have GTL DIESEL.
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 04:39:36 AM
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quote:
his newer Cummins ISBs have been getting between 10-12 MPG.
That's almost unbelievable mileage. Any of you getting even near that? We have some (24) in 71 pass Thomas FE units (forward control tranisit buses)with wheelchair lifts. They have a lot of idling with loading and unloading of wheelchairs, and some have more traffic/stops than others, but about 9 mpg is as good as they will do. These are 190" wheelbase units and not real large like a conventional bus.....My IC FE buses with a DT466E get about 6-7 mpg in similar route conditions. |
Joe
Land of the Free, because of the Brave! |
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Mechan1c
Top Member
USA
853 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 09:19:21 AM
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6.4mpg is the best we've ever squeezed out of a 250 HP ISB in a RE transit.
6.8 is the average our 18 2007 71 pass IC CE's got the last 2 years. These are 220 hp DT466's. |
Edited by - Mechan1c on 07/30/2008 09:25:54 AM |
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 10:00:04 AM
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| Sounds about right. Lotta power for a 71 conventional! |
Joe
Land of the Free, because of the Brave! |
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oscar
Active Member
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2008 : 04:57:42 AM
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Wagonmaster,
We have drive-away drivers constantly telling us how poor of fuel mileage our Florida buses get compared to other states they deliver. It's my personal belief that our rear end ratio (6.14) is the culprit. 99% of Blue Bird buses sold have a 5.29 rear end ratio that may be a little slower off the line, but, per the drive-away folks they routinely get 10-12 mpg. Even if they're off in their estimates at 10-12 mpg, 9-10 mpg would be an outstanding increase down here in Florida.
Chris |
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Mechan1c
Top Member
USA
853 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2008 : 11:54:59 AM
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"Lotta power for a 71 conventional!"
Yea, lots of ups and downs in Washington State! This year's order we dropped to 210 hp and added 2 seats to 77 pass. It'll be interesting to see what the fuel mileage is. |
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2008 : 08:29:19 AM
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Good point Chris! Gotta have that (will only go so fast) feature to appease the DOE!! |
Joe
Land of the Free, because of the Brave! |
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Spencer
Senior Member
United States
188 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2008 : 08:31:56 AM
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| wow this thread sounds interesting do you think it will help FIrst Student here which is who my school uses with our route which is 150 + miles a day. |
New School Bus Site:
www.schoolbuslover.smfnew.com/index.php |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2008 : 1:16:01 PM
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| What RPM's do you Florida folks have when cruising at 55MPH? Our newest run about 1750, MUCH better then our 80s and 90s IH chassis that screamed out 2500 to go 55! |
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ModMech
Top Member
USA
948 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2008 : 3:24:20 PM
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A few things I learned recently about this....
IC recently said in a press release that the cost of the Hybrid has ALREADY come down significantly due to ramped-up mass-production savings. From *memory* new units are up to $25,000 LESS than was paid for the bus quoted in that article above.
Many customers use ECM data to calculate MPG, DO NOT DO THIS! You need to accurately track how much fuel is added at each fill. The ECM is "guessing", and can be off by as much as 12%.
Hybrids ARE "best" in stop and go situations like URBAN routes and that is the intended market.
Hybrids DO NOT get lower MPG when operated on the highway. The motor assists any accelerations, regenerates during stopping and is NEUTRAL to highway mileage unless operated in a hilly area where it may decrease fuel use somewhat even at higher speeds.
I have spoken with more than one district that is claiming 13 MPG with the MaxxForce 7 engines when carefully spec'd, operating in mixed-use urban bus routes. Testing with the Hybrids shows a 30% improvement over this! I can't believe it myself.
I did see all the fuel fill data from one MF 7 equipped unit, and given the miles it traveled 12.41 MPG was the "paper and pencil" number. AMAZING, even if all highway.
Controlling IDLE TIME is CRITICAL to attaining good fuel economy. Every hour of idle time uses between 0.8 and 1.15 gallons of diesel and NO MILES ARE DRIVEN. If you have a 100 unit fleet, that's approximately 100 gallons or $400 PER DAY is utter waste.
I am pretty sure that the 13 MPG number is a "best case" situation, but only time will tell.
PS: I spoke with no fewer than 7 operators (mechanics/owners) with the MF7s, and ALL said they were pleasantly supprised at the low fuel consumption and ease of operation. They also admitted that mileage ranged from about 8 to well over 10 for last school year. That's good in itself. |
If you want customer service, you NEED an International! |
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Spencer
Senior Member
United States
188 Posts |
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Hybrid School Bus - 50% Fuel Savings Reported
