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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
 Posted - 05/22/2002 : 5:22:27 PM
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Hey all. I'm back again with a minor question, but the right answer could save us $$$!!!
We have 9 early International 3800s (1989-1992 years). These have the black instrument cluster with square gauges.
As I'm getting ready for summer inspection, I am finding a great many with problems with the illumination of the gauges. The air gauges, gear shift and "Engine Stop" lights work fine, but from there on to the left do not.
I'm most certain that the problem lies in the cluster itself because we replaced one last year with the new style and it solved the problem...$620.00 later!
Are we going to be stuck with buying 8 clusters or is there a trick to solve this?
Thanks as always!!
Patrick
Shake, rattle and roll: I still love my new old Carpenter bus #17! |
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whe8913
Advanced Member
United States
301 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 8:23:09 PM
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Yep- I'm afraid that replacing the cluster is the only peranent solution to your problem. Just 1 month ago we replaced the cluster on a 1990 IHC that was going bizzirk!! I had just left the IHC dealer and stopped at a red light. WHILE STOPPED, the odometer was clicking away!! It put 3500 miles on the odom. at the red light. Right then I went straight back to the IHC house and told them to look at it. They called me and told me it had to be replaced with $$$$. I did it and no problem since. The IHC people say that they have had lighting problems galore with them. They were a poor design, and when Navistar changed to the newer style for 93 and up it was a whole lot better. That is what this bus got. I like the way the guages do the "Spin dance" when you turn the key on. Besides, I did NOT like the way that the 89-92 guages had the speedo and tach needles only making a 1/2 sweep. They compressed all the numbers into 1/2 the space. TERRIBLE!! and I like the 93+ guages because they have one air gauge with two needles, not 2 separate guages to keep your eyes on.
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Joe Hartnett
Advanced Member
USA
359 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2002 : 7:05:21 PM
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Pat,Loosen the cluster from the dash and remove the bezel and guages. Put the parking lights on. Take a voltage reading across the bulb connection. No voltage? Check the voltage at the green connector. Good voltage? Wiggle the wires going into center board (with the green connector)and watch the lights. It may be a matter of cleaning the terminals in the connector or bending the tabs to make a better connection. If you have good voltage to the plug and still no lights remove the cluster and then remove the center board(you will need a torx screw driver). Check the board for burned circuits. Board good? Remove the 2 screws from the green plug. Plug the board back into the buses green harness connector and check the voltage through the connector and follow it to the other side of the wire ribbon. A common failure point is where the tabs(pin) go through the plug and are soldered. Navistar was recomending cleaning the boards with isopropl alchol and resealing with a clear coat spray protectant. I think it was more for guage problems. P.S. When you are just replacing the bulbs in these clusters, try using a short piece of 3/16 vacuum hose and pushing it over the bulb, it will grab it and you can pull it out without having to pull out the cluster and twisting the socket out. Put a new bulb in the hose push in the new bulb and then twist the hose while pulling to a side angle. One note on Navistar clusters, the newer ones have just as many problems if not more. If you order a replacement cluster you will get the newer design cluster. Why the hell is Navistar charging a $250 core charge if they have no use for the old cluster? They are CORE WHORES! They wont even let you keep the old guages and side boards for your other equipment! We must ban together and make them stop this practice. Remember this next time you go to buy a new bus!
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Joe Hartnett
Advanced Member
USA
359 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2002 : 7:01:51 PM
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Pat, I looked at an old center board today and figured out you can bypass the conector problems with the dash lights. The back side of the bulb's 'twist socket' has slots in it. I cut 2 crimp type tab terminals down to around 1/8" wide and pushed them into the slots. You can cut your pos. and neg. feed wires and crimp them to the terminals. Its going in the back door but it works. The board I was using had dash light problems also. The problem was in the solder connection where the 'ribbon wires attached to the board. I would try to resolder the connection first before bypassing. The problem areas are the terminals attach to the green plug 'mini board' and where the 'ribbon wires' connect to that 'mini board' and the main center cluster board. The mini board splits off for 3 lights on one side an 2 light on the other side and sends a feed for each side through the ribbon. When I installed the modified bulb and socket with the wire leads in the board and hood then up to a battery the lights on that side of the board lit and the other side would flicker when I moved the ribbon. It was easy to find the loose connection by pushing on the wire at the solder connection with a small screw driver. If nothing else, the hook up made it easy work to find the loose connection. NO ONE SHOULD EVER HAVE TO REPLACE ON OF THESE CLUSTERS FOR DASH LIGHT PROBLEMS. THIS SHOULD SAVE YOU ABOUT $5000.
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BusguyII@webtv.net
New Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2002 : 7:29:47 PM
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M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
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BusguyII@webtv.net
New Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2002 : 7:32:38 PM
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Try bubble gum next......
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Joe Hartnett
Advanced Member
USA
359 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2002 : 04:49:43 AM
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Hey Busguy, I stated where the problem are at the solder connections. What is Mickey Mouse about resoldering? The wireing alternative is used with the same crimp terminals and wire that is used on every school bus. The terminals even push solidly into the socket. If you can prove it wont work then state your case. If not, keep your stupid comments to your self.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2002 : 10:39:10 AM
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Oh boy, here we go again.
Thanks for the suggestions guys, It will probably be late summer before I get to use them...but I see no reason that they won't work.
My only comment about the mickey mouse stuff is this: I, we at my district don't always do things by-the-book. In fact, some of the repairs we make look stupid and ugly...BUT...my first piority is a safe bus that operates as it should.
It isn't a beauty contest, our inspection. If I can save $5000.00--I'm going to!
Shake, rattle and roll: I still love my new old Carpenter bus #17! |
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bbird66
Top Member
USA
881 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2002 : 07:41:45 AM
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I agree with hartnett, I have done the same thing, also I have taken the little screws off on the metal plate and check the ground of the circuit board they will corrode up, clean them off that has solved some of my problems too.
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Early 3800 Dashboards
