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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  06:55:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have an 05 IC conventional with the electric door with the switch in the steering wheel. I have been having trouble with the door opening in a timely maner. This does not happen all the time, in fact I can not make it happen this summer. It seems to be a problem after you have been on the route for a period of time. Everything else works fine.
Any ideas?

eicsbus
Senior Member

Canada
126 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  10:15:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
brian, plz be more specific, we have run into almost every problem with the crap door system

I.C. NO FUTURE


formally ,,,,wright11
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  12:26:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mmmm, more specific? I am not sure how to answer that. The driver just tells me that the door will not open when pushing the door button until it has been pressed several times. Of course all this time you are sitting there with the amber 8-ways going and the kid, parent & any motorists wondering why you are not letting this kid get on the bus. Every time I try it it works. I replaced the switch last year and there was no improvment. The regular driver of the bus was the first to complain and then she got sick the last couple of months of school and the sub complains about it too. I am wondering how this thing works. Does the switch complete a ground or does it complete the power circut? Could it be in the contacts on the steering wheel or does it have a "lock spring"? Is the contact or clock spring expensive to replace? Maybe I should just pull it out and replace it. I don't know, I'm just at a loss.

I will be on vaction until Tuesday of next week so if I don't answer that will be the problem. We're having our annual tractor show and it takes up time from sun up to past sun down on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, & Sunday. Then there is clean up and recovery (from the heat) on Monday.

Bryan
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Schoolbus56
Senior Member

United States
128 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  12:35:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bwest.


Check the wiring up by the door motor itself for a wiring short. Ive seen on many occasions where The door would delay opening. After replacing switches the same symptoms would occur at random. Just give the wires a real cose look, the wires are probally chafing against the sharp metal.

wow.
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eicsbus
Senior Member

Canada
126 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  1:18:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
replace the switch, cheap easy fix..holes on back of wheel to push switch out,,,10-20 bucks,,,you can take sw. apart to clean also..
we also had one that would not work, but only when it rained, was told to see if horn was also not working at same time--clock spring??
or body controller...worked all the time at dealer for warranty

I.C. NO FUTURE


formally ,,,,wright11

Edited by - eicsbus on 07/13/2011 1:27:12 PM
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  1:42:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I got a call from Jim at Mid-West's Swansea location. He had seen my post and we talked it over back and forth and I think we figured it out. He suggested that I check to make sure the micro switch was making contact with the lever when the door is closed. He said the motor will continue to run if it is not adjusted properly and it will kick out on a thermal limitter. Sure enough I found it not making contact. So I guess time will tell if that did the trick. It makes sense though because I could not make it happen here at the shop it only would happen out on the route.

By the way, you all know there is no love lost between me and these IC buses. I just want to say that the guys at Swansea have bent over backward to help me out!

Everyone have a great weekend!!! I LOVE JULY!!!

Bryan

Edited by - bwest on 07/13/2011 1:45:09 PM
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Jim Kimmel
New Member

7 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  2:04:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jim  Kimmel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
See the IKnow on ISIS # IK2200087 this will help yopu out.Figure 11

Cycle the entrance door and adjust the position of the right micro-switch so that the switch contacts open just as the doors come to a 90 degree open position. To adjust the position of the micro-switch, loosen the two crosshead screws until the switch slides freely. Do not remove the screws completely as the backing plate will fall out. Close the doors and repeat the procedure for the left micro-switch. (Figure 12)




Figure 12



If the micro switches are not adjusted correctly, the doors can bottom out in the open or closed position, resulting in continuous motor operation. The switches are sensing the position of the gear, not the door. Care must be taken to fully adjust the actuator rod, and then adjust the micro switches to eliminate premature motor failure.

If the electric door controller motor and gear are making noise, it may require lubrication. Lithium-based grease such as Mobiltemp SCH32 should be applied to the gear teeth, both on the large gear and the motor pinion gear. An SAE 20oil such as Mobil Almo 525, should be applied to the gear shaft at the top and bottom of the gear. (Figure 13)


Figure 13
Verify door operation. If the door header or any other components were removed or loosened during this process, reinstall the components prior to releasing the unit for service.

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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  8:53:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks again Jim. I need to go through the above because I have the motor shutting off while it is closed now but it is not hitting the switch when opened.

Bryan
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kd4jfd
Top Member

USA
1168 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2011 :  05:23:11 AM  Show Profile  Click to see kd4jfd's MSN Messenger address  Send kd4jfd a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Better permanent solution:

Remove/disable electronics and install manual door hardware.

539 - Repair work in progress!
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IC_cruiser2804
Active Member

48 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2011 :  12:10:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The switches should click when pushing the door rod manually inside the door bulkhead. If not the switch is too far and the motor is pushing too far. Same with the door shut, if you can not by hand make the contact switch click ensuring the door motor is off, it is off adjustment

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IC_cruiser2804
Active Member

48 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2011 :  12:34:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any of yours have this "fabulous" dealer repair yet? This one came brand new from the dealer with it... Not naming names...

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Kodie
Top Member

United States
2028 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2011 :  4:31:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's why you don't order the electric door, especially when the buses have an air braking system to begin with. We have two buses with electric doors in my fleet, both of them have that repair. The other 50 something buses have air doors, no issues with that.

The only case an electric door makes sense is if the bus has hydraulic brakes in my opinion. Even then, if I could avoid it, I would.

Edited by - Kodie on 07/27/2011 4:55:59 PM
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IC_cruiser2804
Active Member

48 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2011 :  6:10:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
we have had our fair share of issues with the air doors.
Most of them dont stay closed on the road, and the electric door is stronger, and when set up properly they wont break like this.

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08 Thomas EF
Top Member

533 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2011 :  7:11:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit 08 Thomas EF's Homepage  Reply with Quote
What exactly is this "repair"? The piece of metal/plastic that the bolts are fastened to? Would they normally be fastened directly to the door? How is this the electric door's fault? Sorry, I've never been in a CE with an air door so I don't know the differences.

As far as air vs. electric, I like how smooth the electric doors are on the ICs. However, our EFs' air doors are even smoother than the IC's electric ones, but they seem to be more problematic. Haven't there been issues with Blue Bird's air doors? I guess it depends brand-by-brand which is better.

Not sure about stop signs, but I prefer electric cross arms. They operate at just the right speed, are nice and smooth, same speed from start to finish. We have a couple Visions and an EF around here with air cross arms that are painstakingly slow, and some HDXs and an EF that were extremely fast. The FS-65s I see have air cross arms and they work perfectly, though.
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IC_cruiser2804
Active Member

48 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2011 :  10:30:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 08 Thomas EF

What exactly is this "repair"? The piece of metal/plastic that the bolts are fastened to? Would they normally be fastened directly to the door? How is this the electric door's fault? Sorry, I've never been in a CE with an air door so I don't know the differences.

As far as air vs. electric, I like how smooth the electric doors are on the ICs. However, our EFs' air doors are even smoother than the IC's electric ones, but they seem to be more problematic. Haven't there been issues with Blue Bird's air doors? I guess it depends brand-by-brand which is better.

Not sure about stop signs, but I prefer electric cross arms. They operate at just the right speed, are nice and smooth, same speed from start to finish. We have a couple Visions and an EF around here with air cross arms that are painstakingly slow, and some HDXs and an EF that were extremely fast. The FS-65s I see have air cross arms and they work perfectly, though.


Yes the bolts are normally threaded into the door from the inside, and no bolts are visible from the outside. But when the electric doors are improperly adjusted, or the bolts become loose and are not tightened, the door cracks and the bolts no longer hold. So this repair is done by drilling through the door and placing this plate and studs on the outside, and nuts on the inside.
The electric doors are smoother, and the motor is stronger and doesnt freeze in the winter, but it requires more maintinence (greasing the mechanism, adjustment etc) unlike the air door.
Not familiar with Thomases air door, but i know bluebird has a VERY solid design for their open out air door, but their jacknife air door *****.
I totally agree with the electric stop signs.

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TylerB
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2011 :  09:52:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit TylerB's Homepage  Reply with Quote
the electric door on my IC is really jerky, however I think that it is more of a nurture thing over nature, because my driver drives off from stops with it open before closing it. and theres this one set of stops 1000+ feet away from eachother that she drives with it open to keep the outboard reds on with the stop sign out.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2011 :  11:20:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What these drivers won't do! At least they don't open the door before they stop on that style.

Bryan
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matts4290
Advanced Member

224 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2011 :  8:27:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit matts4290's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Man, I thought for sure that this topic was going to have something to do with the hinges at the top of the door failing, and the metal around the bushing cracking. Pretty much every IC we had was like that.
I was tempted to adjust our doors, but I feared that the door being out of adjustment was due to the hinges being all worn out/ and broken.

I do really like my air (open out) door on my AA. Its solid, and is very powerful. The only problem I had, was that a bottom hinge rusted, and froze up, which snapped the hinge off the stepwell.

We can't all be conventional!
http://www.youtube.com/user/matts4290
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RichBusman
Advanced Member

453 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2011 :  9:05:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


That was an 08.
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bwest
Administrator

United States
3820 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2011 :  05:32:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You know, now that you posted that picture I do remember both of my old ICs (one is gone now, thank heavens) having trouble with the piviot point. One was cracked and had to be welded and the other had the bolt stripped out of it and I don't remember how I fixed it. Darn this age thing!

Bryan
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bluebirdvision
Top Member

USA
1077 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2011 :  06:09:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think if you turn the pressure up on an IC air door, it stays shut going down the road. All of the district buses have air doors, very little problems with them!

I don't like anything electric, air is always better.

Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_212311114614&ap=1



Edited by - bluebirdvision on 08/05/2011 06:11:01 AM
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TylerB
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2011 :  6:22:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit TylerB's Homepage  Reply with Quote
they dont open them before they stop because of the transmission interlock, once its open they can drive off...
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member

533 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2011 :  8:16:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit 08 Thomas EF's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The CE's doors won't open when you're moving. They'll only produce a loud "YOU IMBECILE!"-sounding beep above... um... 3 mph? Something like that. You have to be nearly stopped. Every driver who's driven the '10 CE300 that's on my route has screwed up in that respect except my current driver, who handles that bus with amazing precision in every respect.

I don't remember for sure, but I have a faint recollection of the bus making the same terrible beeping sound if you accelerate above a certain speed and the door's still open, but I don't think it does anything to prevent it, or perhaps the driver corrected it before the bus intervened.
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IC_cruiser2804
Active Member

48 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2011 :  09:17:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 08 Thomas EF

The CE's doors won't open when you're moving. They'll only produce a loud "YOU IMBECILE!"-sounding beep above... um... 3 mph? Something like that. You have to be nearly stopped. Every driver who's driven the '10 CE300 that's on my route has screwed up in that respect except my current driver, who handles that bus with amazing precision in every respect.

I don't remember for sure, but I have a faint recollection of the bus making the same terrible beeping sound if you accelerate above a certain speed and the door's still open, but I don't think it does anything to prevent it, or perhaps the driver corrected it before the bus intervened.


Thats only if you have the wheel controls, if its on the panel it will open at any speed

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IC_cruiser2804
Active Member

48 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2011 :  09:19:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rich we have that issue with the air doors also. We have an entire stock of door panels just incase that happens lol

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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
4491 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2011 :  10:07:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Snide comment to the spambot is cheerfully withdrawn! Thanks again admin!

Edited by - Thomasbus24 on 08/08/2011 12:45:49 PM
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jeepcjron
Advanced Member

USA
262 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2011 :  7:48:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the bigest issue i see is listed above. the door micro switches need to be adjusted correctly. what happens is the door motor continues run and the fet shuts it down. only happens on the runs as we in the shop dont sit with the door closed long enough. the adjustments are listed in isis and a training video online also for those that have access. the door insert failures can be from door adjustment also or drivers pushing on them to get buy and into the bus when parked in lines. there are several homade repairs out there. I like to drill through from the outside and use carraige bolts. put a spacer on the inside where the insert was and reattach. looks clean and is strong.

its like a slinky! useless but fun to watch.
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