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80 grit
Active Member
United States
47 Posts |
 Posted - 03/29/2011 : 7:40:07 PM
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| Well, we had one of the DT 530E "piston boss scuffing" (seizure) episodes a while back and the Ih truck dealer can't get it right. I sent it in for an inframe when it scored one piston. We got it back in a timely manner, but in less than two days it threw the engine warn light and lost power. Code 333 injector control pressure.It runs but when it throws the code it loses enough power that it will barely move.Back to the dealer on Jan. 26, we still don't have the bus today Mar. 29. IPR? no,pressure sensor? no, high pressure oil pump? no,reflash the ecm? no,all replaced to no avail. Now IH is telling them to try a known good ecm. They can't seem to find one that is suitable. I guess that a new one from the parts dept is too much of a gamble for them to try. Any thoughts? Erik |
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Cal Mc
Advanced Member
303 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2011 : 11:05:23 PM
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We're used to it. Had 5 2012 IC CE buses arrive at the dealership
at the end of December. Three months later we have 1 in the yard
the rest are at the dealership. None have seen 1 route mile! |
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eicsbus
Senior Member
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 10:35:32 AM
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| welcome to the IC service world,,lol |
I.C. NO FUTURE
formally ,,,,wright11 |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 11:31:34 AM
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| You might want to go up the food chain. Have you complained to your IC regional sales manager? You might find some usefull phone numbers in the School Bus Fleet "Fact Book" issue. |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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IBTMech
Top Member
USA
973 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 2:39:01 PM
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| Cal Mc. Write a nastygram to IC corporate. It'll build a fire under someone's behind. Seen it happen! |
If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years. |
Edited by - IBTMech on 03/30/2011 2:39:56 PM |
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IBTMech
Top Member
USA
973 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 2:44:46 PM
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80grit. We had a '99 DT466E with unexplained stalling issues. Very strange codes were set. The dealer was as stumped as I was. They tried a reman ECM and it wouldn't run at all. They finally pulled the ECM out of another vehicle and it ran fine! The reman ECM was junk out of the box!
6 years later it's still running fine. |
If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years. |
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80 grit
Active Member
United States
47 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2011 : 6:34:39 PM
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| Well, here we are on Apr.6 and still no bus. Since I last posted here I have contacted our sales rep from the bus dealer and he was going to forward the story to the IH customer service rep. This is what I have heard from the truck dealer in the interim. "Good news, another customer has ordered an ecm and when it comes in we will try it on your bus." Glad that I am not the guy who could possibly get a used part for new cost. The next communication sounded like this "another customer brought in a bus the same as yours for a repair and we are going to take their ecm and try it on yours". On Mon. the 4th. I heard that "so far it is working, but we want to test drive it some more". Today I call and hear that this is working and the problem has vanished. "Great" I think to myself,"finally progress has been made". The service manager has no idea if the technician has put the request through the parts dept. to get a quote on the cost so no idea on when it could be finished. Where has customer service gone? |
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80 grit
Active Member
United States
47 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2011 : 7:30:35 PM
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| Well, another day past and now the problem is that there is no ECM in the IH parts pipeline. They are going to start checking dealer by dealer to find one. At least the parts guys are decent, that gives me a glimmer of hope. Anybody here have positive results with an aftermarket rebuilder? |
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flyboy
Senior Member
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2011 : 11:19:24 AM
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| 2 months is enough to get anybodys cork out. Take heart IC isn't the only manufacturer to have problems. We had an ISB with an injection pump failure on return from the dealer the engine seized less than 5 miles from the dealership. Seems the tech who replaced the injection pump dropped the wave washer from the pump drive gear into the crankcase and it found its way into the crankshaft drive gear. Took the crank out and bent all the valves. It took a year to get the engine replaced and the bus back into service. Two months, count your blessings it coulda been a Cummins. |
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mastertech
Advanced Member
274 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2011 : 2:02:43 PM
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I dont know if 2 months is so bad. One of our 2006 vt365's just went back for is 47th ISIS report. Yep 47 times to the dealer. It came back a couple weeks ago from an engine pull/ bed plate reseal job and a turbo. Now its going back for injectors because of a horrible miss and hard start. When I brought it in to check the codes I noticed coolant dripping off the back of the head and found the egr cooler cracked externally. I know some vehicles are just lemons but at what point does the factory just say the heck with it and install a new engine? How much does it cost to replace injectors 5 times,2 turbo's, 4 egr coolers,several egr valves,ecm,wire harness,bed plate seals,countless remaps,and sensors. All to pretty much no avail. Its got to be far in excess of a new engine. I feel sorry for the techs at the dealer . I think they all hide behind the shop doors,fingers crossed and peek out to see if its going to be shooting clouds of smoke when we come to pick it up. In another year it will be out of warranty and my problem so I get to be the one the fingers get pointed at.  |
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80 grit
Active Member
United States
47 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2011 : 7:32:32 PM
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| Man, I thought we had the corner on lousy service, but some of your stories are even scarier. A year? unreal. Today Apr. 13 we got it back and this time it made it back to the shop without quitting, all of the turbo nuts are installed, and it isn't even leaking coolant. Cross your fingers and hope for luck. It might actually work this time. |
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IBTMech
Top Member
USA
973 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2011 : 4:07:15 PM
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| I have worse stories than that with Case and Holder dealers but it gives me a migraine just thinking about it. I cannot relate those horror shows without pain. |
If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years. |
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80 grit
Active Member
United States
47 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 6:38:55 PM
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| Well, it looks as if I spoke too soon. This thing went on the road for two days before Easter break and this morning its third day out it starts falling on its face again with a plethora of codes. Two of these are the same ICP ones that have hobbled this thing since the inframe. It actually stalled once on the way back in. Back to the drawing board. |
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80 grit
Active Member
United States
47 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 7:27:18 PM
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| May 5Th and over three months now. Another ICP pump, the last one was not regulating well and would spike the ICP and upset the ECM. Regulator and sensor were tried before replacing the pump. We pick it up tomorrow, let's see if it will run for more than two days. |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 8:51:15 PM
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| Good luck! Keep us updated, you have all of us pulling for you! |
Bryan |
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Cal Mc
Advanced Member
303 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 11:10:15 AM
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| Our buses that arrived at the dealership at Christmas have an April warranty start date. |
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80 grit
Active Member
United States
47 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 7:26:46 PM
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| Thanks for the luck, it goes back in service on Mon. Cal Mc what was up with yours? |
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80 grit
Active Member
United States
47 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2011 : 7:43:31 PM
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| UPDATE It went out for the first time today as nobody wanted to drive it. This thing failed again. Warn engine light and 20 mph. Code 333 ICP high/low. Shutting it down and restarting it got it back to drivable. We have had it with this stealership's service dept. I was told to replace the injectors on it so apart it came, reman injectors delivered in a timely manner, except one was broken in the box. The electrical connector was broken off. The incompetence of this place is beyond words. |
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NWCROWN
Advanced Member
USA
461 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2011 : 11:39:34 PM
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After reading this, I gotta wonder if Lemon Laws apply to bus purchases. My guess is no.
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Edited by - NWCROWN on 05/12/2011 11:40:37 PM |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 05:36:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by NWCROWN
After reading this, I gotta wonder if Lemon Laws apply to bus purchases. My guess is no.
I think the answer is yes. I would pursue it anyway.
By the way, I was talking to a local guy who works for the state highway department and he sounds about like us on here. He says they have had nothing but trouble with their International trucks. He said he wishes they could just go back to the old trucks! Most of their problems are electronic I think. |
Bryan |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 07:51:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bwest
quote:
Originally posted by NWCROWN
After reading this, I gotta wonder if Lemon Laws apply to bus purchases. My guess is no.
I think the answer is yes. I would pursue it anyway.
By the way, I was talking to a local guy who works for the state highway department and he sounds about like us on here. He says they have had nothing but trouble with their International trucks. He said he wishes they could just go back to the old trucks! Most of their problems are electronic I think.
All but one of my buses are Internationals, thank god for the internet or I wouldn't even know I had trouble  |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 09:30:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fastback
quote:
Originally posted by bwest
quote:
Originally posted by NWCROWN
After reading this, I gotta wonder if Lemon Laws apply to bus purchases. My guess is no.
I think the answer is yes. I would pursue it anyway.
By the way, I was talking to a local guy who works for the state highway department and he sounds about like us on here. He says they have had nothing but trouble with their International trucks. He said he wishes they could just go back to the old trucks! Most of their problems are electronic I think.
All but one of my buses are Internationals, thank god for the internet or I wouldn't even know I had trouble
ROTFLOL!!! 
I sure don't need the internet to know I',m having trouble! In fact some days I wish I didn't have the distraction of a computer. |
Bryan |
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80 grit
Active Member
United States
47 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 08:00:05 AM
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| Very funny Fastback. That did brighten up an otherwise frustrating day. Isn't it odd how our experiences with similar products can be so different? Actually we have some little 3600 series with the plain ol DT 466 that are super reliable even though they are pushing the 400,000 mark.Good solid units. The problems started when the E suffix was added. The DT530E unit that spent so much time at the truck dealer is way out of warranty, they inframed it for a badly scored piston at 163,000 and it hasn't run more that two days without problems since. The last 3 vehicles that this dealer touched have been screwed up since. One of the year old Maxfarces that they had in for making oil failed on the road yesterday afternoon for the second time in a month. Call the lowbed and tow it back again. It is still making oil also. Looks like the Carpenter Re is going to be on the road Mon. |
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80 grit
Active Member
United States
47 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 12:50:45 PM
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| Well, it looks as if we got this one fixed.After 3 months at the dealer to only have it fail its first day out was too much.The decision was made to give up on the dealer and work on it in house. I put a set of injectors in and to make a long story short, the main engine oil pump lost its prime and would not pick up any oil.A new oil pump and it is back in service without issue. Go figure. |
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member
533 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 2:05:12 PM
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| If you want it done right, you need to do it yourself. Glad it finally worked out! |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 2:09:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 80 grit
Well, it looks as if we got this one fixed.After 3 months at the dealer to only have it fail its first day out was too much.The decision was made to give up on the dealer and work on it in house. I put a set of injectors in and to make a long story short, the main engine oil pump lost its prime and would not pick up any oil.A new oil pump and it is back in service without issue. Go figure.
Wow!! Kind of makes you wonder about the dealers doesn't it? I was just going to say how close is your next dealer? I know our next dealer is over 100 miles from us.I know school busses are not the only ones haveing trouble. I talked to a guy who works for the state and he said he would rather have his old regular DT back. |
Bryan |
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AmTran_Buses
Active Member
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 04:35:22 AM
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Glad you got your problem fixed. Don't be to put out with the bus, it seems like the dealer was just a bunch of crooks that wanted some $$$ and didn't care about you.
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 05:47:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by AmTran_Buses
Glad you got your problem fixed. Don't be to put out with the bus, it seems like the dealer was just a bunch of crooks that wanted some $$$ and didn't care about you.
I think some of these guys are just lost and are afraid to admitt it.
I'll try not to make this a soap box but this reminds me of what our superintendent and I have been talking about. Our state is cutting funds for vocational programs. They are expecting students to get a college education and do something behind a desk I guess. I just don't understand what is going on. Some day we will all wake up and be wondering why we don't have anyone to work on our equipment. Well, we will have people to do it but they will be making more money than doctors do! |
Bryan |
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80 grit
Active Member
United States
47 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2011 : 7:57:15 PM
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| I am with BWest on this one. The shop guys got sucked into what the computer and IH were telling them to do rather than using their intellect and observations.Frustrating. I am curious as to how the bill for this is going to shake out. At two months I was hearing that this was going to be expensive as they had a lot of hours in and some big ticket parts. The ball is in their court, I am going to wait and see what happens. |
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IC 2 months at the dealer
