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BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
 Posted - 12/11/2001 : 4:41:49 PM
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This past weekend, I had the opportunity to check out 2 International IC'S.
This was at MISD. The one, a 78 passenger conventional was a demo from Capital City International and the other was bus #7- South Lake Public Schools- a 54 passenger shell with a wheelchair lift.
The 78 passenger conventional was impressive but nothing to make me become an International fan. I liked the black door, and the grey interior- including the floor. What I didn't like, was the cheap fiberglass and plastic used through out the bus.
Now, the part that made me jump:
Bus # 7. This bus had an green interior. The floor was black, the seats were green and International painted the ceiling, panels and front green. A light green, that realy stood out. Pathetic looking was the only words I can use to describe this.
For a company trying to gain support from the industry, green was a bad move. I also was shocked though that green was offered.
ANyone else see any odd combos coming from International lately?
It's the little things that count |
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Thomas guy
Senior Member
USA
165 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2001 : 6:16:23 PM
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What does IC stand for?
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2001 : 6:19:59 PM
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Hi BusDiva,
International is not the only manufacturer who is offering green in their buses. I have heard of a district that will be buying some brand-new Freightliner/Thomas buses with the green interior.
As far as International is concerned, I have seen some that have gray seats. These buses look really nice with the gray driver's area. I love the gray driver's area!
You may think that the green interior in the International is ugly, but I think since International has bought out AmTran completely, maybe they are in the experimental stage where they are testing out different interior color combos and trying to see what the customers really like and what they really want.
Overall, I strongly believe that the quality of the AmTran products has improved with International buying them out. I am sure this will continue as time goes on.
Bob
(B. Busguy33)
"Blue Bird: Always flyin' high above the rest... 
Blue Bird: One of America's Best!!!  " |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2001 : 6:44:14 PM
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BusDiva, as you are aware this year we purchased two new buses instead of our usual one. The first a new International/Thomas, and the second an IC. The boards reason for this was to do a comparison between the two. We will see what they have to say when it comes to buying the next new bus.
When we received these two new buses, I was driving a 1998 Thomas/International, and was givin the option of taking a new bus since I had the highest senority, I of course took the Thomas as everyone knows I don't like AmTran/International bodies. I have been on the bus once, and only once, I didn't even care to check it out, but I did want to see the chassis related components.
As long as we continue to buy Thomas products in the future I will have no problem. The drivers area looks fine, but the bus overall does tend to look cheap, so we will see how it holds up over the next few years. Our Thomas buses have been doing just fine, and I feel they will continue to be the bus of choice in the future.
Its funny after I deceided to take the new Thomas the driver with the second greatest senority was asked if she wanted the new IC, she said no, and took my old 98 Thomas. The IC was given to the driver with the second lowest senority. Most of the drivers are Thomas fans, two are strictly Blue Bird so they didn't want to change, so they gave it to the driver who's bus was being turned into a spare this year.
I am a personal fan of the green/green combo that was in my 86 Thomas bus. I liked the color on the seats, and the roof wasn't that bad, I like the grey/grey they offer more, but green wasn't so bad. What gets me is when Blue Bird fans tell me how ugly it is, and then tell me the Blue Bird brown/brown interior looks nice. To me brown is the worst color you can stick in a bus, even if it is a lighter color than green. Birds brown is ugly, Thomas has ugly brown seats, and the AmTrans also have a very ugly color brown, and lastly I have seen a few Waynes with brown and those were just as ugly as the rest of them.
I am sure someone will go on the defense for the IC, and that is fine with me, someone has to but don't start complaining about the MI drivers and how they like Thomas, because I like Thomas and that is how it is, I promise I won't cut you down personally if you like AmTran/International.
Thomas Built Buses- The best buses on the road.
Posts dedicated to 86-A. The best will never be forgoten.
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INTERNATIONAL_74
Senior Member
94 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2001 : 7:04:13 PM
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I would much rather have an IC any day, especially over a Thomas EF. They are the ugliest things around! If we start talking about bus designs, that has to be mentioned. Thomas has needed to redesign this bus for awhile now. We have two ICs that have been great.
Thomas guy: "IC" stands for "Integrated Conventional", because, as you may or may not know, International builds the chassis and body in the same facility in Oklahoma.
Have a good day!
Edited by - INTERNATIONAL_74 on 12/11/2001 7:05:03 PM
Edited by - INTERNATIONAL_74 on 12/11/2001 7:07:52 PM |
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2001 : 7:05:52 PM
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quote:
What does IC stand for?
Hi Thomas guy,
"IC" stands for Integrated Conventional. This defines a bus which is manufactured under one roof. Both the chassis and the body are built and united in one factory instead of the traditional two separate factories.
My apologies. I didn't realize INTERNATIONAL_74 had already answered your question before I responded to it. Sorry.
Bob
(B. Busguy33)
"Blue Bird: Always flyin' high above the rest...
Blue Bird: One of America's Best!!! "
Edited by - B. Busguy33 on 12/11/2001 7:11:21 PM |
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24bc
Active Member
16 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2001 : 7:09:57 PM
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When you spec. out a new bus you can pick what color of seats you want in it. Sure blue bird pushes brown but you can get other colors the same with the other two companys.
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1983WardFord
Top Member
USA
1395 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2001 : 8:12:03 PM
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I thought IC was Integrated Chassis...
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Phil4747
Top Member
USA
695 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2001 : 9:45:30 PM
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No, it's Integrated Conventional. Although it's not quite as integrated as Blue Bird's new Conventional. The IC chassis is basically the 3800 with a new hood, and a few other features like the dash. The body is designed to be the best fit for that chassis, but they're still built as separate units that are put together, just all by the same company.
The Blue Bird/Ford, on the other hand, is a chassis that was specifically designed for that body. One example is the new storage area under the dash. There's no doghouse, and the space under the dash actually extends forward under the back of the cowl. No other conventional bus can do that. Also, the new window is made possible by the true integrated design.
—Phil
"It's the same way some people are obsessed with cars. I'm just weird." |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2001 : 9:53:50 PM
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I just brought my car over to my mechanic today to have some work done on it, and saw the town's IC sitting out infront of the garage (he has a contract with the town to do their bus repairs). I asked him how he likes the new IC from a mechanic's standpoint. He said that they got the bus delivered brand new in August, and it came with a laundry list of problems. He mentioned several things, including the electrical not working right with the mirrors and the brakes squealing pretty bad. Today the bus was having a problem with its starter; it would stay engaged after the bus had started. He said that in general the quality *****, so I wouldn't worry thomas86_a about your district's future bus purchases... I bet they continue on with Thomas.
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BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2001 : 06:13:50 AM
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HMMM
My initial reason for this topic was just to ask if anyone knew that International is using green on their interiors as for paint. I know and made postings in the past about the seat colours- as the possiblities are endless, but I have not seen any AmTran porducts in Michigan that were anything other than winter white in the past 5 years.
Also, why would International paint this green when the district that bought the bus has only 15 buses and doesn't let their buses float? I am sure it was not to gain popularity so thats out of the question.
Phil, if you remember, the International 7.3L engine never had a dog house or anythign behind the cowl. I drove a 1989 Bluebird with a 7.3 and our 92 Carpenter and Wards are all 7.3 and none have a dog house or anything behind the dash or cowl.
It's the little things that count |
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2001 : 07:46:27 AM
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Most any color is available from most all the manufacturers. If you order sufficient quantity, there isn't even an up charge for different color seats or interior paint. That district may have wanted to try something new. Don't discount that until you ask...
FYI,
We have a few IC's and they've been in service since april. No problems at all to report with any of them. They are DT466E powered (like all of ours) and we couldn't be happier. Of course, we know how to maintain school buses. Some contract garages may not be up to speed yet on the electronics and diagnostics of these newer vehicles. Not critical of your garage Diva, just a thought. For someone to say that anything is terrible or great based on the performance of one vehicle doesn't make sense to me. You can always get one good or one bad unit. Stuff happens.
Joe
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Phil4747
Top Member
USA
695 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2001 : 08:47:54 AM
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Like the district near me that bought 2 buses in 92, a Genesis and a TC/2000, both spec'd exactly the same. Ran them for 5 years, and from 97-01, they bought 6 TC/2000s. Reasons included both performance and dealer support (they don't have a very close Thomas dealer, which is why Thomas was out of the question). The Blue Birds proved to be more cost effective.
Granted, it was the first model year for Genesis, so they still had some kinks to work out. But they put the buses to a test and Blue Bird passed with flying colors.
Unfortunately, their goal of a uniform fleet was just killed, when they put out bids for 4 new buses. International underbid Blue Bird by $400 a bus, but cost wasn't the only issue. The Intl dealer had 4 FEs that met their specs on the lot, whereas the Bird dealer would have to custom-order the buses for them. They could get the Intls now, but the Birds wouldn't be in until April. The buses being retired and replaced by the new units are almost 17 years old, and they didn't want to go through another New England winter with them.
But the point is, they did a trial with 1 of each, and bought what was best for them. They've had very few problems with the Blue Birds, and we'll see about the new FEs.
—Phil
"It's the same way some people are obsessed with cars. I'm just weird." |
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BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2001 : 1:56:01 PM
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Wagonmaster:
Our garage is up on all the computerized diagnostics equipment available.
I never said anythign was terrible. I simply spoke of my opinion on what I have experienced and others locally in the state.
The IC is not yet favoured in this area. Very few have been ordered and the ones on the road so far have been very much like the AmTran conventional.
Most here favour Bluebird- for their durability for the winter months and Thomas for the same reason.
Maybe it is difficult to realize what our winters are like unless you live here, but the amount of salt, rain and inclement weather that our buses are exposed to is enough to make a final call on purchasing.
The bodies need to withstand our harsh winters and pass the winter test or they won't get bought. AmTrans have not prooven their body to last in Michigan or be sufficient.
It's the little things that count |
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Silas J.
Top Member
USA
938 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2001 : 2:07:25 PM
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I don't like brown seats either.I don't see why it seems to be one of the most popular colors.I rode in an IC today,and the seats in the thing are as hard as a rock compared to Blue Bird ,Ward, and Thomas.I do like dark green seats.The drivers that got the two new IC's so far love the things.One driver especially liked that he does not have to swing wide to turn.We have three 95/96 AmTran/Fords in our fleet,and the paint on them is as faded as on the two 87 Thomases.
Silas J.
97-12 It will outrun your bus.
Posts dedicated to 87-24 |
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BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2001 : 3:00:42 PM
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Thats a ford for ya. The brown is good in some ways because dark coloured pen will not show up well as it would ina grey seat however, the grey is much nicer and if you have great student management skills and get on your kids when they vandalize, then the seat choice colour could be white if you take care of them.
Fords have also been known to have horrid turning radius's in the past. Just a common trait I suppose.
It's the little things that count |
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Bus Boy 39
Top Member
USA
1315 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2001 : 3:13:57 PM
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Blue Bird's brown seats and brown interior by far are my favorite. My old 39 had that, now 215 has blue seats and white ceiling. My picture on Yahoo Instant Messenger is of me riding my old 39. My favorite bus. You can see the brown interior in it.
 "Gotta Love Those Birdies!" |
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BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2001 : 07:07:22 AM
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BusDiva brings up a good point! With the Blue Bird/Ford, will this new bus have a better turning radius's?
I can remember back a few years that Fords were awful for that!
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2001 : 07:40:40 AM
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That Ford chassis may be put together in Conway, Arkansas at the International/Amtran facility. If indeed that is the case you can expect improvements. If not....... who knows.
Joe
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BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2001 : 07:53:02 AM
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Joe,
I heard that Idea was scraped! They are going to make the chassies in Detroit.
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2001 : 12:24:19 PM
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Hey guys,
To tell you the truth I never seen the green on the new IC bus. Well I never seen any IC up close in my area. I know in the early 80's or the late 80's my district had some ward with green interior. The seat and the ceiling panle were green too. It just made me realize that my district in the early 80's had green interior on Blue Bird, Ward, and Carpenter I believe. In the late 80's they started going for the brown interior on the Ward, Blue Bird, and Carpenter. Still they kept getting Thomas interior in green, I don't know why. I know ours 92 Thomas buses have gray interior, but they were the first and the last Thomas buses to have the gray interior. It wasn't until 5 years later that we stated back getting Thomas buses and that was in 98's. The 98's Thomas unit was the first Thomas buses to have brown interior. At first it was a shock because I didn't know that Thomas had brown interior combo, but after a while it grow on me. Now I'm loving it. I know our new 02 Thomas Freightliner have the blue interior combo and they are really sharp. So I'm guess the district is moving on to the blue combos LOL!
Also my district have very few AmTran buses we count them on our hands. I say we have about 5 84 capacity AmTran FE Transit and 29 AmTran coventional special needs buses. I guess what wagonmater is saying it depend on the fleet and how well they take care of their buses. Yes I understand up north have cold weather, we also have cold weather down here too, but not bad as you guys up north have them. What I'm saying is maybe it all in the mind that you guys don't like other buses because you guys have been getting Thomas buses for so long. Plus you guys don't come from a big fleet like wagonmater, or myself. We know that all buses have their bugs but that doesn't stop us from bidding them. So it kind of like that you guys get one buses and it happen to be a bad unit than it like you guys think that rest of the buses are crap too. I not trying to start anything, I wanted you guys to make me understand how can you just stay stuck on one bus. I know my fleet we have been getting Blue Bird and Thomas buses latly. You know like one year they will get all Thomas buses and the year after that they will get all Blue Bird buses. Sometime we get them both the same year. That is getting to become old now, I like the way our fleet use to be Ward, Carpenter, Blue Bird, and Thomas they were all on International chassis. We still have Carpenters but all the 91's Carpenter unit are due to retired soon. We have 93's and 94's Carpenter and they are all on ford chassis, good buses! We have 96's Crown by Carpenter all on International chassis, we had some few bugs to work out with those unit, but after that they became good buses too! All those Carpenter are begin out number by our Blue Bird and Thomas buses. So you know we are going to have our good buses and bad buses, but it up to us to make the bad buses become good buses. Again I not trying to started anything I just wanted to know if you guys ever sometime get tired of Thomas buses? To me all the 3 company have good buses. Well we don't have IC so I can't really say anything about them, all I can say is they are nice looking buses.
"Some people are so afraid of dying that they never being to live."
-Unknown author
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2001 : 1:05:47 PM
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Hi BB,
You're correct! They put two buses together in Conway and never got the cowl to fit very well. Ford has now contracted with a small custom chassis builder to do these chassis. Some rumors floating around in Nashville, according to a good source, say that it may be this time next year before any significant production begins! Only time will tell.
Joe
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BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2001 : 1:52:39 PM
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Hey Thomas00,
So how many buses do you have in your fleet?
Like the picture of the Thomas/Freightliner with the black grill! Really would look nice with black sash windows!
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2001 : 3:19:34 PM
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Hey BusBoy,
Right now we have about 1,147 buses in our fleet we went up from last year. Last year we had about 1,113 buses. Hope this help.
Also BusBoy where did you see a picture of a Thomas Freightliner with black grill? I would like to see!
"Some people are so afraid of dying that they never being to live."
-Unknown author
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BusBoy
Top Member
USA
2042 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2001 : 4:08:41 PM
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Thomas00,
lol...I saw it on you profile! For some reason the picture dose not show up so I clicked on it and that's what came up!
Is your Fleet out side of Atlanta?
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1983WardFord
Top Member
USA
1395 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2001 : 4:19:36 PM
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Thomas00,
Part of the reason a lot of schools go with one kind of bus is so they don't have to stock so many different kinds of parts.
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Silas J.
Top Member
USA
938 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2001 : 4:31:10 PM
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Maybe everyone should buy black seats (if that is avalible)so the pens won't show up.
On a brown seat,if you don't use the proper
brown vinyl stuff and use super glue like one kid did,not only does it not hold but it leaves a dark brown,almost black spot.
Our two Wayne minis have better paint than those three AmTrans I was talking about earlier!
Silas J.
97-12 It will outrun your bus.
Posts dedicated to 87-24 |
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2001 : 4:53:42 PM
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BusBoy,
LOL! okay I really feel like an you know what! Yes our fleet is just outside of Atlanta we have two compound. North Compound and South Compound, they are both really large compound.
"Some people are so afraid of dying that they never being to live."
-Unknown author
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thomasvista2012
Top Member
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2001 : 6:21:35 PM
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Thomas00,
Long time no hear!
To be honest, I get sick and tired of seeing Thomas buses day in and day out. Every day, I see Thomases, if I get lucky I see a Carpenter, Bluebird or Ward.
It's hard to believe that Fulton has only two compounds. It's a very spread out county, I thought they'd have more than that.
I know this is off topic, but I'm applying to college in Atlanta.....Georgia State. Two reasons why I'm applying:
1. I've always wanted to live in Atlanta
2. In Georgia, you only have to be 18 to drive a bus. In FL, you have to be 21. It sounds crazy, but I definitely want to drive a bus in college.
If it's big and yellow, then it's a school bus!
http://www.geocities.com/jasonsbuspage |
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Mr. International
Active Member
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2001 : 06:01:54 AM
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quote:
No, it's Integrated Conventional. Although it's not quite as integrated as Blue Bird's new Conventional. The IC chassis is basically the 3800 with a new hood, and a few other features like the dash. The body is designed to be the best fit for that chassis, but they're still built as separate units that are put together, just all by the same company.
The Blue Bird/Ford, on the other hand, is a chassis that was specifically designed for that body. One example is the new storage area under the dash. There's no doghouse, and the space under the dash actually extends forward under the back of the cowl. No other conventional bus can do that. Also, the new window is made possible by the true integrated design.
—Phil
"It's the same way some people are obsessed with cars. I'm just weird."
So in your opinion a bus that has a chasis made by one place, motor in anouther and then put together in anouther place is an INTERGRATED bus !!!! come on !!!
International's IC is made in one place - one roof - Internationals motor, International's chasis, International's body. Go check out the plant in Tulsa !!!
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2001 : 10:16:55 AM
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What happen thomasvista2012! LOL!
Yep FULTON only have two compounds, you see the city of Atlanta divide up FULTON County. The city sit right in the middle, there for causing FULTON to have North and South. We can't built any compounds in Atlanta it have to be in our district area. The county try to built a compound right in the middle of the county, but no Atlanta said we were in their area this went on for a while until FULTON said forget! Two compounds are really large so it no big deal. But it would be nice to have a third compound so we could be spread evenly, south compound, midtown compound, and north compound. That what fulton wanted to do, but just went ahead and built a new north compound since it was so small. They add on to the south compound, we are still bigger than the north compound he he while maybe a yard bigger!
That good that you want to go to Georgia State, I know a lot of drivers who drive for fulton and go to Georgia State, they might even pay for your books.
"Some people are so afraid of dying that they never being to live."
-Unknown author
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wagonmaster
Top Member
USA
2298 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2001 : 3:42:27 PM
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To clarify, IC buses are still being made in Conway, Arkansas. With the recent downturn of the economy, both Tulsa and Conway are at reduced capacity. There are no plans in the immediate future to stop IC production in Conway. International has a great facility in Tulsa, I was there at the Grand Opening. When they "fine tune" it some more it will truely be awesome.
Joe
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Thomas00
Top Member
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2001 : 4:26:31 PM
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Hey guys,
I just got an email from International Chassis they said the new 3800 Chassis will look almost like the medium truck chassis. Just picture it! The new chassis on a Blue Bird and Thomas Body. Oh man they will be sharp buses. I hope Thomas will still allow International to sell their new chassis to them. If they do I think people will go for the new International chassis over the Freightliner chasssis. Man I can't wait when they finaly come out with the new chassis. Does anyone know when the new 3800 Chassis is coming out?
"Some people are so afraid of dying that they never being to live."
-Unknown author
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Silas J.
Top Member
USA
938 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2001 : 5:33:48 PM
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THANK GOODNESS! Everyone of our Thomas Conventionals from 1992-present has those dang blasted 3800 chassis exept two(those are Fords).I think it's past time for them to change the 3800 series chassis styling
at least a little bit.They're good chassis's
and everything but it can get tiring to look at all of those 3800s.
Silas J.
97-12 It will outrun your bus.
Posts dedicated to 87-24 |
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2001 : 11:33:56 AM
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quote:
Does anyone know when the new 3800 Chassis is coming out?
Considering the fact that their new line of medium-duty trucks are already out, I'm sure the new "3800" series chassis will be out within the next couple years or so. As I mentioned in another post, I went to a truck show last year and got to see the all-new medium-duty International truck (4000 series) and from looking at that, I can tell that when they redesign the school bus chassis, it will really look sharp.
I would think that they would also offer a chrome grill. Since the new medium-duty trucks feature the chrome grill, I'm sure that the new school bus chassis will feature that, and/or a yellow grille too.
Bob
(B. Busguy33)
"Blue Bird: Always flyin' high above the rest...
Blue Bird: One of America's Best!!! " |
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BusDiva
Top Member
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2001 : 1:17:26 PM
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Hey Kevin
duidn't you mention you thopught you knew something about 2003 or 2004 with International? I thought you mentioned once before. Spill your beans.
What do you know and share it with everyone.
I am sure everyone will offer the chrome ggrill as an option seeing as how Freightliner offers it. I guess as long as your state allows it also. We are not suppose to in Michigan but they have been letting it slip in some counties.
It's the little things that count |
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Topic |
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International IC
