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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
 Posted - 06/08/2001 : 11:23:04 AM
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Are you ready for this?
IMMI has developed "SafeGuard(TM)" School Bus Safety Seats with lap and shoulder belts.
According to the press release, "The school bus barrier crash for ICPSTC attendees demonstrated five years of extensive research and over six hundred hours of testing on SafeGuard. Developmental research at CAPE included rollover impact, crash barrier, sled, ride, and durability testing. IMMI engineers also met with parents, safety advocates, state legislatures, school bus manufacturers and school transportation directors listening to all their concerns about child passenger
safety on school buses.
The school bus rollover impact test, conducted on CAPE's one-of-a-kind rollover test machine, demonstrated how vulnerable children could be in a school bus rollover crash. The unbelted crash dummies in the test left their seats and struck the roof of the school bus, sustaining serious injuries, while the belted crash dummies in the SafeGuard seat were safely restrained.
"Unbelted children in a school bus rollover crash are very vulnerable, they look quite similar to clothes tumbling in a dryer as the bus rolls," says Harry Templin, Director of CAPE. "A child in a rollover crash in a school bus is not protected with the current standard. What concerns IMMI is that only 40% of all school bus crashes involve the front of the bus, leaving children unprotected without lap and shoulder belts."
School districts will be able to order the SafeGuard School Bus Seat in the fall of 2001 and parents and children can look for the SafeGuard School Bus Seat on school buses in the fall of 2002."
Here's a link to the IMMI Website:
http://www.safeguardseat.com
This is a great video (Real Player), showing what happens in a variety bus crashes:
http://www.videonewswire.com/video.asp?brand=VN&file=2001060501.rm&stream=rg2
Parents demand for seat belts on the buses is too great to ignore much longer. I've had no problem with seat belts on school buses, since this was what would eventually come anyway -- no problem, provided:
They are installed on "new equipment," and only installed on older equipment when possible to install without expensive modifications;
When installed their use is also required;
Bus drivers are assured, by law and enforceable regulation, the authority to refuse to transport students refusing to follow directions, including the direction to buckle-up and remain buckled as required;
Effective penalties are established for students (as well as school districts) failing to enforce safe and appropriate use of the passenger restraint equipment by students riding the school buses.
What is more likely to happen, at least for a time, is voluntary use excluding the bus driver from responsibility. (jk)
Should America's school buses be equipped with seat belts?
http://forums.delphi.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=2safeschools&msg=320.1
Note: Non members can participate in this poll by clicking on GUEST at login
Edited by - JK on 06/08/2001 5:26:17 PM |
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Phil4747
Top Member
USA
695 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2001 : 2:40:23 PM
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An immediate problem I see with this system...
It's only for 2 people. A route designed for 72 passengers would require 18 rows of seats, meaning about a 47-50 ft bus. OR, buy 2 buses for what used to be 1 route.
I don't know how much the system would cost to install, and that cost may be justifiable. But the fact that it reduces capacities by 1/3 on all elementary routes, good luck finding the money to buy more buses and hire more drivers.
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2001 : 4:58:30 PM
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quote:
An immediate problem I see with this system...
It's only for 2 people. A route designed for 72 passengers would require 18 rows of seats, meaning about a 47-50 ft bus. OR, buy 2 buses for what used to be 1 route.
I don't know how much the system would cost to install, and that cost may be justifiable. But the fact that it reduces capacities by 1/3 on all elementary routes, good luck finding the money to buy more buses and hire more drivers.
A Scotland contractor, like you, was a little more up front about his priorities. Recently parents began boycotting a school bus because it doesn't have seatbelts. More than 100 people signed a petition demanding that a legal loophole allowing older buses to carry children without safety belts be closed. The owner of the bus company, Ian Cockburn, of Waites of Chirnside, said: "We are a small business and it is all down to cost. I'm not going to spend money if I don't have to."
It will be interesting to hear the industry talk about cost, which is what the bottom line issue may have been all along.
Many of the safety features now on school buses were a result of parents inititives.
Looks like IMMI understands that it is America's parents that will force seat belts on the buses. They have prepaired well to help make that happen. Check out their free bus crash downloads at:
http://www.safeguardseat.com/downloads/index.html
(jk)
Edited by - JK on 06/08/2001 5:04:19 PM |
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1983WardFord
Top Member
USA
1395 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2001 : 7:55:09 PM
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I'm with Phil on this one. It would greatly reduce capacities on buses, meaning school districts may have to mearly double their fleet to account for this. I do understand that safety is the number one priority, but many, if not most, places would not be able to handle something like this. It does look like a good idea on paper, but I think it's time to go back to the drawing board.
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Phil4747
Top Member
USA
695 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2001 : 8:53:22 PM
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I just want to say in my own defense that I'm not placing cost above safety. Safety is definitely the number one priority.
But there are some things you just plain can't afford. The money has to come from somewhere, and if you can't afford anything less than 3 to a seat, then you can't afford it.
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2001 : 9:31:36 PM
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quote:
I just want to say in my own defense that I'm not placing cost above safety. Safety is definitely the number one priority.
But there are some things you just plain can't afford. The money has to come from somewhere, and if you can't afford anything less than 3 to a seat, then you can't afford it.
Sorry, didn't intend to put you on the defensive. Simply pointing out the likelyhood that cost may have been the issue all along. (jk)
Edited by - JK on 06/08/2001 9:32:31 PM |
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MrBusDriver
Senior Member
USA
189 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2001 : 09:56:29 AM
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And the first time there is an accident that involves driver incapacitation and a student it stuck in their seatbelt and the bus would catch fire, the liability will lie with the driver - as always. I don't too often hear about rollover crashes as much as I do some idiot rear ending a bus or the moron who tries to pass you when there is ice on the ground and slams into the bus, etc...
I think the industry needs to take three steps back and look at how often a rollover occurs and make it up to individual school districts to install them. There is no where on my route where I could roll over, unless I was doing a turn-a-round at 40MPH, and the chances of that happening are between slim and none.
 Mr Bus Driver
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KrazeeGoose
Senior Member
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2001 : 1:01:25 PM
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I am all for safety on school buses. It is my top priority. However, I have already had a bad experience with seat belts. I was transporting students with special needs to a school outside our district. There were 2 elementary kids and 2 high school kids on the bus. (It is a 15 passenger.) I was watching the kids in the mirror. They seemed to be getting along fine when all of a sudden the elementary school boy grabbed the seat belt and whacked the high school boy in the head with it. Luckily, the belt didn't break any skin. Just left a really nasty mark. The little boy did this just to see what it would do. I also drive a route that has 104 students on the roster. This is elementary and high school. 26 of the elementary kids have been diagnosed with ADD. Yes the seat belts would help keep them in their seats, but what about when the other seat belt is empty? It is a weapon. You are constantly loading and unloading. There are going to be empty seat belts. I realize that you should have control over your students, but I don't think anyone can have that much control. Even if they are warned of the consequences of what will happen if they do that with the seat belt, someone will always do it. In my opinion, which probably doesn't go very far, we should keep all the four-wheelers off the roads while school buses are running. They are most of our problems anyway!!!
Thomas/Freightliner 25:
Powered by CAT
(Hear me roar!)
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2001 : 3:06:02 PM
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quote:
"... They seemed to be getting along fine when all of a sudden the elementary school boy grabbed the seat belt and whacked the high school boy in the head with it. ..." -- Thomas/Freightliner 25
What happened next? How did the school deal with this behavior? (jk)
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Captain Larz
Senior Member
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2001 : 06:48:56 AM
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Yes the seat belts would help keep them in their seats, but what about when the other seat belt is empty? It is a weapon. You are constantly loading and unloading. There are going to be empty seat belts. I realize that you should have control over your students, but I don't think anyone can have that much control. Even if they are warned of the consequences of what will happen if they do that with the seat belt, someone will always do it.
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Captain Larz
Senior Member
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2001 : 06:56:06 AM
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....sorry, still figuring out this quote thing.
I agree. I think more kids are going to get hurt if we put these potential weapons into kids hands than would in a rollover. I don't think there is a huge danger of rollover anyway, especially for city routes.
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KrazeeGoose
Senior Member
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2001 : 04:55:30 AM
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JK--
The boy was a hearing impaired student who falls under special rules in our district. He was disciplined and did understand what he did was wrong, but he was not removed from school transportation.
In our district, anyone in the special education program cannot be removed from school transportation no matter how bad their behavior is.
Thomas/Freightliner 25:
Powered by CAT
(Hear me roar!)
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Busrepair
Senior Member
121 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2001 : 12:44:30 PM
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Seat belts, I believe everyone knows that we will eventually see some kind of impact restraint system. I feel that the school bus should get with the times. Seat belts may not be the answer but what about a system that could not be used as a weapon and would protect the children in a roll over accident. I also remember seeing news footage of a school bus video tape where the driver was incapacitated and one of the students pulled the parking brake valve. The child in the rear most seat bounced out of the seat and crammed his head on the ceiling then fell on top of the seat back in front of him. Parents are the ones that are pushing for the seat belts so lets be honest with them. If we are required to have seat belts (or some type of system) then the local levies will have to be passed and there will be an extreme increase for those levies. To sum up all of this they will be the ones that pay for the systems in the end. I alos see a million dollar idea for the person that can develope a system that will protect children in the event of an accident.
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DufourDriver
Active Member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2001 : 4:22:48 PM
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May I suggest...Cages!
Sorry all, I know this is a serious topic, but i've had a really bad day.
I can clearly see both sides of this arguement. Just this morning I was watching ER the television program. Today's episode involved a school bus that had been hit by a Vehicle that was involved in a high speed pursuit. One of the Children on this bus died because he had been ejected from the emergency exit. The Doctor attending complained, wanting to know when "they'd ever figure out that busses should have seatbelts". I wondered right away, who he meant by "they". I also wondered what he'd say if he was dealing with a kid whose head was cracked open because someone hit him with an unbuckled seat belt.
My feeling on this subject is this...The school bus is already the safest vehicle on the road, and while there may always be a way to make it safer, I do not believe that the combination of seatbelts and sometimes out of control children is one of those ways.
Hope you all have a good night!
Julianne :)
Communication is the key to all success!!!! |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2001 : 5:01:04 PM
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quote:
"... The boy was a hearing impaired student who falls under special rules in our district. He was disciplined and did understand what he did was wrong, but he was not removed from school transportation. In our district, anyone in the special education program cannot be removed from school transportation no matter how bad their behavior is." -- Thomas/Freightliner
Hmm ... Please don't tell me it's the law. There is no such law or regulation protecting unsafe conduct on the buses, regardless of the label attached to the child.
Bus suspension is not the same as school suspension. There are regulation attempts, such as maximum IEP student school suspensions no more than ten days, transportation must be provided and the like. None of these require a hostile child to be transported on mainstream buses or even special ed buses, when the child's known behavior poses a threat to self or others. A Parent can be paid mileage to transport their own child the shortest distence between home and school (strange but true).
What is most likely going on is that the school district has found the cheapest methode and the least path of resistance -- their school bus drivers -- and will continue to force their bus drivers to transport disruptive, even dangerous kids.
Bus drivers can increase their resistance to unsafe conditions, including hostile, sexually harassing environments, simply by working together when presenting the safety issues to their school board and the press.
The Twelfth National Congress defines a Preventable School Bus Accident as:
"An accident that could have been prevented by reasonable action by the school bus driver (Standards For Specially Equipped School Buses, 1995. Revised Edition. Twelfth National Congress on School Transportation)." -- source: Dr. Ray Turner, Special Needs Transportation Standard Operating Procedures, published by the White Buffalo Press
A trained, safe and reasonable bus driver refusing to transport an unsafe, hostile, distractive child that refuses to follow directions (or is incapable of following directions) may fit that definition.
The Behavior Management Plan (BMP) is said to provide consistent bus service for individual special needs students including managing their school bus behavior. Part of the BMP intent is to protect the child's due process rights. But this plan does not give schools the authority to endanger the child or others on the school bus.
Turn the tables: Support the child's right to refuse a restraint, even to refuse to ride the bus:
What right has the school (or anyone else) to torture a child, by forcing that child to endure an environment, such as the school bus, when the child is not equipped to manage that environment?
What authority has any school to humiliate a child with a restraint, or to endanger a child by placing that child in a restraint specifically designed to prevent the child from escaping?
But if not in a restraint what authority does the school have to endanger that child or others because of unsafe, distractive, disruptive, sexually harassing or violent behavior from that child?
Did the school get permission from the other parents to place their kids at this level of risk?
Battles like this should be fought in the light of day, not in the dark or in secret behind closed doors. (jk)
Edited by - JK on 06/12/2001 6:00:01 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2001 : 6:21:26 PM
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"And the first time there is an accident that involves driver incapacitation and a student it stuck in their seat belt and the bus would catch fire, the liability will lie with the driver - as always." -- Mr Bus Driver
Not true.
Restraints, parachutes and the like, are used on the buses now. Kids that want out can get out of some of the most tangled contraptions adults can design. I guess it's an art.
Expect the law to exclude drivers from responsibility. Where belt use is required expect that the driver must make a reasonable effort to enforce and report violators. As long as the driver is doing these things attempts to scape-goat the driver, especially an incapacitated driver, should bare no fruit. (jk)
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School bus seat belts issue may be over
