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RidgeLine
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2014 :  03:50:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit RidgeLine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have searched on here and can't find what I am looking for. I just moved jobs from one school system to another. We now have a bunch of 06 CE 300 internationals with vt 365's
The problem we are having is a hard start no start when hot. We have no diagnostic equipment and in the past they sent these out for repairs. What I have on the net is that this is a common problem with the 6 liter power stroke and replacing the stand pipes and dummy plugs. For all those with the experience does that sound about right? I found a kit from the dealer for $140. International wants $770 for each rail, no kit.

I'm not new to this forum either. I had to create a new account because I forgot my password. I use to be Farmridge.
Thanks in advance

mastertech
Advanced Member

228 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2014 :  8:33:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit mastertech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
First off do an air leak test to find the actual cause of the leak. That condition is usually caused by a blown oring on the STC fitting . Are you sure your dealing with vt365, CE200 busses would have a vt in them CE300 would have a inline engine.
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RidgeLine
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2014 :  04:39:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit RidgeLine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes it is a CE 200, been working with 300's for long time. I believe we found the leak after checking out some Ford forums and YouTube. It appears to be the stand tubes.
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RidgeLine
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2014 :  09:30:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit RidgeLine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I did the stand tubes and that didn't fix it, on to the STC fitting.
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
218 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2014 :  1:46:24 PM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Check for codes from the IP cluster.

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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RidgeLine
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2014 :  09:12:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit RidgeLine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
BJ, I guess you missed the part that I don't have any diagnostic equipment. I have used the cruise switches and nada.
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
218 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2014 :  10:32:45 AM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
An air test might help you locate the problem with the valve cover off. Can you pull the file from
ISIS on it? Or was it done somewhere besides the dealer?

Other than that, check primary fuel pressure, and the water trap filter, also look for metal in the bottom of the filter housing.


CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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RidgeLine
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2014 :  09:35:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit RidgeLine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I will do the air test as soon as we get a vendor account to purchase the IPR block off. As of right now this shop doesn't have ISIS, I'm working on that.
This is a two person shop with 58 buses and I have only been here 18 days now, it's like stepping back into the stone age.
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
218 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2014 :  10:37:18 AM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Bless your heart. Well, as I always say, if this work was easy, anybody could do it!

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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mastertech
Advanced Member

228 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2014 :  8:42:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit mastertech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
To do an air pressure test All you need is a pigtail to run 12 volts and ground to the ipr . Then install a fitting in the Injection pressure sensor and give it full shop air. If you have a leak you will hear the hissing right away.
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genescammell
Active Member

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2014 :  1:07:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had 2 ce200 units both with vt365 engine and I went round and round with the engine the last thing I did was take the idm from my last running bus and install it on the 2 nonrunning buses and we test drove the unit when they were hot and you shut them down they would not restart or they would quit after an hour or so the idm on both units had failed I have had no problems since I changed them switch idm see what happens
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dsalinas1939
Senior Member

186 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2014 :  12:55:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit dsalinas1939's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i believe there is a TSI on the idm there is an update i had a problem with one of my vt365 but it also set check engine light long story short when i called international they said there was an update module i put itin and its been fine ever since
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RidgeLine
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2014 :  1:12:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit RidgeLine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Update: I received the test adapter and hose today and hooked it up. I left it pressurized on a cold engine for over an hour, no air leaks heard, then I thought. If the problem is happening after the engine gets hot I would need to test it on a hot motor. So I put the ICP regulator back in and ran the bus until the engine fan came on. I shut the bus of and wouldn't know it didn't start. I then put the test adapter back on and pressurized the system and after about 2 minutes air could be heard leaking from the oil filler tube on the left valve cover. I am going to go ahead a rebuild both oil rails and the injector o rings since I have it all and am going to be in there anyway.
Also I got ISIS now in the shop and I check the calibration card and the ECU is update. I will let you all know when it is fixed. Thanks for all the help.
We do have a second bus that cranks and won't start, VT 365, 2006. DTC code 124 icp out of range low and 626, unexpected reset fault. I was able to borrow the lap top from my old school system to pull the codes. Now the work begins.
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
218 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2014 :  03:19:57 AM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Ridgeline, these engines and buses have pattern failures just like any fleet. I do know you need some more manpower though. Keep us posted.

Hey, RidgeLine is kind of a catchy name!

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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RidgeLine
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2014 :  09:35:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit RidgeLine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks BJ, RidgeLine is my Pickup, Honda Ridgeline.

Yesterday I rebuild the rails with a kit from Accuart diesel and pressure tested the system and found air leaks around 6 of the ball sockets. I removed the rails and torqued them 10 lbs tigheter and still had air leaks. I went ahead and put the engine back together, primed it, started it and drove it. It runs like a champ. I will not restart after it is hot. I had a laptop on it and it won't build will cranking. I suspect it is still leaking from the ball sockets but have not retested it. I have not done the STC fitting yet.
We are wondering if we should by remanufacture rails and go from there or just put new motors in. We have 4 buses doing the same thing.
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Winn10
Active Member

27 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2014 :  2:37:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit Winn10's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RidgeLine

Thanks BJ, RidgeLine is my Pickup, Honda Ridgeline.

Yesterday I rebuild the rails with a kit from Accuart diesel and pressure tested the system and found air leaks around 6 of the ball sockets. I removed the rails and torqued them 10 lbs tigheter and still had air leaks. I went ahead and put the engine back together, primed it, started it and drove it. It runs like a champ. I will not restart after it is hot. I had a laptop on it and it won't build will cranking. I suspect it is still leaking from the ball sockets but have not retested it. I have not done the STC fitting yet.
We are wondering if we should by remanufacture rails and go from there or just put new motors in. We have 4 buses doing the same thing.



your problem not starting after its hot is more than likely the STC fitting. the old style quick connect fitting on ALL 30 of ours have failed. if the STC has been updated, more than likely has worked loose as a few of ours have. 9 of 10 times its the STC fitting, BUT we've had a couple D-rings on the oil tubes and the plugs in the rail fail. and the 124 code on your other bus is more than likely a faulty icp sensor or corrosion in the connector, that's been our experience for that particular code. hope this helps and good luck getting these rags straightened out. we've spent around 1.3M just to keep ours running since 2006
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RidgeLine
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2014 :  04:42:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit RidgeLine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ya'll are help me greatly here so a huge thank you. I am going to keep plugging along until something gets fixed.

Next I have DTC codes 222 and 224 on a couple of these CE200's with VT 365s, some buses that won't start, but I cannot find those codes on ISIS. Any help?
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RidgeLine
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2014 :  05:05:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit RidgeLine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My name is Ron and my phone number is 912-547-3941 if anyone may be able to give me a call and help me out with knowledge I don't have on these 365's I would appriciate it. I am in Georgia, so East code time.

Thanks.
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Bus Tech II
Senior Member

100 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2014 :  10:07:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bus Tech II's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Does the oil pressure guage come up when cranking but not starting?
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RidgeLine
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2014 :  04:22:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit RidgeLine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bus Tech II
Yes the oil pressure gauge does. I have had a laptop on it and the ICP pressure is only building to 360 lbs. Once it cools off it starts just fine and building ICP pressure to 600 very quickly. I have done the oil rail air pressure tests and have air leaks at the ball tubes. I am currently waiting for some new o rings and some tools in order to put it back together.
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RidgeLine
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2014 :  11:40:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit RidgeLine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok Friends I am at a lose.

I have rebuilt the oil rails twice and still have air leaks at the ball tubes. I put new o rings in the tops of the injectors as well. I have just finished replacing the oil rails with re-manufactured ones from International and still have air leaks at the same six ball tubes. As far as I can tell it is coming from the ball tube o rings and not the injector o rings.
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
218 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2014 :  6:41:30 PM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Ron, do you have any buddies over there with a smoke machine? The type that we check the emissions systems on gas burners with?

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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RidgeLine
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2014 :  03:30:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit RidgeLine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No BJ I don't, but I know where your going with that.
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
218 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2014 :  09:14:03 AM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I figured you would.

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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