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dekalbfleet
Active Member

22 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2012 :  03:40:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit dekalbfleet's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have gotten some great Advice from this site so I going to throw out another piece of dirty laundry. Im sure most of the buses in any of your fleets do not have hydraulic brakes on them but we have a fleet full of bad decisions. We have some with the WABCO systems on them and they are dropping like votes for the next democrat presdient. These buses have the parking brake on the rear axle and are actuated by a hydraulic cylinder, the HCU has 2 pumps, 2 acumulators, and 2 resivors. We have had alot of them unable to disenguage the parking brake due to one of the two pumps failing, and there not being enough pressure to run the whole system so it locks down. Is anyone else seeing these types of problems?

Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2179 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2012 :  07:07:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm working on a one now. 2009 IC It's like a RV nightmare of crap. I like the good old Bosch booster with the meritor systems. Accumulators!?! Really? WTF were they thinking. GM made this mistake on the P chassis. I feel much more at ease pulling the manual parking brake lever.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
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mastertech
Advanced Member

231 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2012 :  07:34:27 AM  Show Profile  Visit mastertech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Check to be sure that they are under extended wabco warranty as this is a known issue with these systems. You cannot just replace the defective $100 pump so prepare for sticker shock for complete units to the tune of many thousands of dollars each. They need to be reprogrammed after instalation as well.
Also when working on a sahr can I recomend repalcing both cables if they even show a hint of rust or bubbling under the pastic cover where they used bare metal cables instead stainless or coated ones.
You can remove the adjuster nut and heat the end of the sahr can to remove them without busting off the hollow bolt that holds the cable in.
Welcome to IH and good luck .
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dekalbfleet
Active Member

22 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2012 :  03:20:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit dekalbfleet's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the welcome mat. Sometimes I feel likes its on my back and everyones wearing cleats. We have replaced 3 so far here at the shop and about 4 under warr. The Maytag repair that comes to do repairs under warranty here as shed alot of light on them for us like using a sealed beam headlight as a test light for the pump voltages and the right tool for the hour long bleed proceedure to push 2gal of brake fluid thru this pile. Fun!
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Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2179 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2012 :  06:24:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I believe this is what we are working on right? http://www.meritorwabco.com/MeritorWABCO_document/mm0401.pdf

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2179 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2012 :  07:05:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've also noticed after replacing disc pads and rotors the system goes nuts. ABS, Traction Control and Brake Pressure lamps all lit and the dash screaming at you. You have to pump the brake and play with the parking brake. Then it's all good.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
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dekalbfleet
Active Member

22 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2012 :  10:55:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit dekalbfleet's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes WolfOr that the Devil.
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2012 :  5:36:16 PM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Yes, we have some of these with WABCO SAHR system. Yes, like someone else said, they have extended the warranty on them. I have been able to replace just the motor itself on the valvebody.

I agree, this system is a very poor brake system, especially to transport schoolkids with.

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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bwest
Administrator

United States
2295 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2012 :  09:39:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I too have been having a little trouble with this system. Hyd. brakes are not inherently bad, it's just these IC buses I have trouble with. The only other hyd. system I ever had much trouble with was the old LG system on the Fords.

All mine have been replaced under warranty so I don't have any first hand experience with diag. and replacement.

Keep up the good work!

Bryan
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Cal Mc
Advanced Member

245 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2012 :  11:29:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit Cal Mc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We have had faults with the cap on the reservoir. Contrary to everything I was taught about sealed brake systems, these caps have to vent to atmosphere. If they do not vent well, it takes too long for the pump to build pressure. This creates faults and is harder on pumps.
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dekalbfleet
Active Member

22 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2012 :  03:17:07 AM  Show Profile  Visit dekalbfleet's Homepage  Reply with Quote
BJ Henderson where do you guys get just the pump? And do they last after that kind of repair or would you just do the whole thing? We are all about saving money but not to the extent of repeating the same repairs over an over
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2012 :  8:19:41 PM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
dekalbfleet, we have got them from the IH dealer we got the buses from. Southland International, B'ham, Montgomery, Al. 1-800-844-4102.
They are great as far as customer service is concerned, they really work with us. In fact, so has the Thomas dealer we have had contact with and purchased buses from. So many guys here do have customer support problems, I cannot complain at all.

Oh yeah, you can replace the electric motor without opening the hydraulics on the system, too.

We use the Wabco program for diagnostics. Real easy to use. Their website really was helpful in training all of us to work on the systems. I encourage anyone having these systems to educate themselves on them and understand how they work.

Sorry for taking so long to reply. Are you in Dekalb County, Ga?

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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dekalbfleet
Active Member

22 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2012 :  09:54:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit dekalbfleet's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the reply. I knew it was just the front pump from the Wabco diag software but here in DEKALB COUNTY GA we have NAPA in house. So it is'nt easy working with them on getting a cheaper part they just want to sell the most expensive part they can find. Ive called WABCO on there hotline several times and had several walk thrus with techs from the warranty shops on bleed proceedures and diag and when asked they always say replace the whole thing!! So it is refreshing to here thru this resource that there is another way. Thanks agian. BJ
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IBTMech
Top Member

USA
973 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2012 :  5:25:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit IBTMech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You guys are making me ill just reading the posts!
I am thankful that our entire heavy duty fleet (school, public works and fire dept) are all air brakes and almost all Bendix ABS........ a few Wabcos. Bendix is the best!

If it doesn't fit, FORCE it.
If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years.

Edited by - IBTMech on 07/05/2012 5:26:14 PM
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dekalbfleet
Active Member

22 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2012 :  03:02:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit dekalbfleet's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Lucky!
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57fan
Senior Member

United States
57 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2012 :  1:39:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BJ Henderson

What is the part number for just the motor for the pumps. Can not find any information from IC on just a pump replacement. Just spent $3K on a complete unit cause the motors were bad. Also Wabco says that the HCU is replaceable by it self but they do not carry just the HCU. go figure. Any part number information would be helpful.. If anyone is using the Toolbox software there is a utility menu that you might need. Especially if you have the dash lights train tracking after service. Just hold down ctrl , alt shift and f-12 at the same time. FYI

Lead, Follow or get out of the way!
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Wolf0r
Top Member

USA
2179 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2012 :  12:06:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just put some brake pads and rotors on a IC conventional. It had this system on it but uses the same International caliper and wheel ends as the older ones. I didn't get time to plug up the laptop and play with the system. I notice the brake motor doesn't run when you hit the brake pedal at times with the bus shut off.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Schoolbus56
Senior Member

United States
128 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2012 :  3:14:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ugh I havent had any go in a while i should keep my mouth shut

wow.
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2012 :  9:03:43 PM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Bassman I think it is has a large fleet of special needs buses, I have learned a lot from reading his posts.

I do not like these Wabco systems, but we have to deal with them for a while. Like everything else in the world of wheels, there is a short learning curve for us. We are a smaller fleet with less buying power, so that affects how our management goes.

Another thing is, the Waboc system would have to be inspected closer in the rust belt up there, since we are in Alabama, we do not have to contend with that issue unless we buy used buses.

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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Rick Russell
New Member

Canada
6 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2012 :  06:42:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am also very interested in the part number for the motor, our local dealer does not know of its existance !
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Rick Russell
New Member

Canada
6 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2012 :  3:04:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bump 'cause I have a failing motor right now !!!
quote:
Originally posted by 57fan

BJ Henderson

What is the part number for just the motor for the pumps. Can not find any information from IC on just a pump replacement. Just spent $3K on a complete unit cause the motors were bad. Also Wabco says that the HCU is replaceable by it self but they do not carry just the HCU. go figure. Any part number information would be helpful.. If anyone is using the Toolbox software there is a utility menu that you might need. Especially if you have the dash lights train tracking after service. Just hold down ctrl , alt shift and f-12 at the same time. FYI

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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2012 :  04:35:42 AM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I wish I could help you, but our computer crashed and lost all the data we had on our fleet for looking it up. Otherwise there would have already been a number posted for everyone to see.

Sorry guys, I'll do some research to see if I can discover what you need on the Wabco website.

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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BJ Henderson
Advanced Member

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2012 :  05:04:31 AM  Show Profile  Send BJ Henderson an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Try the number here in this download for the manual see if it helps. This is a good learning tool for those that need it. http://www.meritorwabco.com/MeritorWABCO_document/mm0401.pdf

CMTT,CMAT,CMBT
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Bassman
Top Member

USA
510 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2012 :  05:15:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any luck on the part number for just a motor? I have a bad one now.
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eicsbus
Senior Member

Canada
126 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2012 :  06:43:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
is it the front motor

I.C. NO FUTURE


formally ,,,,wright11
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Bassman
Top Member

USA
510 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2012 :  06:54:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, it is the front motor.
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eicsbus
Senior Member

Canada
126 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2012 :  07:02:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
most of our failures are the 2 wire conn at the pump, we clean the conn. and good to go

I.C. NO FUTURE


formally ,,,,wright11
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earl1412
Active Member

23 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2014 :  7:22:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit earl1412's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bassman

Any luck on the part number for just a motor? I have a bad one now.



http://www.meritorwabco.com/MeritorWABCO_document/TP1349.pdf
earl
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mastertech
Advanced Member

231 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2014 :  7:52:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit mastertech's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Has anyone been able to actually rebuild one of these units from the salt belt? How much did the parts end up costing as opposed to replacing the hcu? The 14 page instruction manual does not look to favorable on having units worth repairing .
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