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sambrutay
Advanced Member
United States
271 Posts |
 Posted - 05/11/2011 : 05:24:38 AM
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| Anyone have these on the road yet? We just put a few in service this week. Thomas C2 W/ Cummins and Spicer Auto shift. Air brake bus with air operated stop arm, cross gate, and passenger door. These are on inner-city routes. From the feedback I have heard the air compressor won’t keep up with the demand when you have several stops within close proximity. |
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Jake
Top Member
USA
3527 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 07:50:22 AM
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| Yeah in Kentucky we got a big batch of 16 hybrid C2's two weeks ago and then we have some CE's on order. Not sure how they are holding up though, I don't work with mechanics. |
Yellow & Black
A new forum community dedicated to school bus driving, operations, maintenance and enthusiasts!
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matts4290
Advanced Member
224 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 8:07:07 PM
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| They just got in a hybrid bus for our city. Its not a school bus, but its not like the other transit style gillig buses. Its a new conventional IC with a MF DT, and it has the "automatic" manual transmission in it, and the thing is as slow as ....". Its basically a mini motor coach, because it actually has padded seats. No problems that I know of yet on it. |
We can't all be conventional!
http://www.youtube.com/user/matts4290 |
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JustinB
Advanced Member
United States
490 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 09:44:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sambrutay
Anyone have these on the road yet? We just put a few in service this week. Thomas C2 W/ Cummins and Spicer Auto shift. Air brake bus with air operated stop arm, cross gate, and passenger door. These are on inner-city routes. From the feedback I have heard the air compressor won’t keep up with the demand when you have several stops within close proximity.
- The transmission is a Fuller
http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/ProductsbyCategory/HybridPower/index.htm
- Air system issue isn't pressure maintenance issue. Watching the gauges will confirm this. The issue is air line routing & regulation related to the deployment/retraction speeds of the stop arm & the crossing gate. (Usually, the retraction rate.) There are field fixes that do correct the deployment/retraction speeds. |
I may not know the answer but I can usually find who does. |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 12:10:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jake
Yeah in Kentucky we got a big batch of 16 hybrid C2's two weeks ago and then we have some CE's on order. Not sure how they are holding up though, I don't work with mechanics.
YaY Gatewood/Riley 2011 |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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JustinB
Advanced Member
United States
490 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 08:29:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Wolf0r
http://www.kentuckycleanfuels.org/resources/hybridhorsepower.htm
Interesting Spread Sheet on that link.
http://www.kentuckycleanfuels.org/resources/hybridbuses/busdata.xls
I just kinda wonder what the base-line numers are for similar emission level coinventional buses within the same operations. A state wide fleet average of 9.4 mpg doesn't seem very spectacular for $45,000 per copy... Even though $45,000 is coverd via federal subsidy, is a 27 year pay-back* a good value for taxpayers?
*15k mi/yr, Hybrid @ 9.4mpg (KY spreadsheet Avg april '11, Trad @ 7.25mpg(Est low), Fuel @ $3.50/gal. |
I may not know the answer but I can usually find who does. |
Edited by - JustinB on 05/14/2011 08:31:49 AM |
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JRob
Advanced Member
207 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 11:10:02 AM
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| Agreed. I've been seeing similar MPG on EPA10 diesel-only rigs. Obviously route and driving characteristics have a big impact on mpg. I think you could live with a 15 year payback in a school bus based on service life but 27 doesn't make sense. |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 06:40:28 AM
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| That mileage doesn't sound much better. I look at the averages on my visions and they are about the same as those hybrids. No 10's here but I got some 9.3s on the '07 emissions. I would say we need to lean towards burning plant based fuels if we are not able to fix the MPG issue soon. |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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sambrutay
Advanced Member
United States
271 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 06:07:58 AM
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| our problem happened to be operator error. If you do not apply the service brake before releasing the park brake the system will evacuate down to 60 psi. problem solved there. Its hard to validate the purchase of these as they will never recoupe the extra money spent. But we can say we are helping to go green! And there will be lots of awards and hand shaking. That has to be worth something right? |
Bruce |
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sambrutay
Advanced Member
United States
271 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 06:12:05 AM
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| @ Wolfr & JustinB, What kind of fleet MPG avg do you see? Our fleet average of 1200 buses is 7.1 innercity. |
Bruce |
Edited by - sambrutay on 05/17/2011 06:13:03 AM |
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JustinB
Advanced Member
United States
490 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 09:11:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sambrutay
But we can say we are helping to go green! And there will be lots of awards and hand shaking. That has to be worth something right?
Yup. A sore hand and a difficult wall to clean.   |
I may not know the answer but I can usually find who does. |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 1:58:08 PM
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| I'd say we are in the mid 7s. I don't think it's possible to get decent milage even if for a hybrid. The alternative fuels will reduce emissions without the addition of expensive devices driving up the price. I love electric powered vehicles but it would be expensive. The number of cells and electric motors it would take to electrically power a bus would make it weigh like a locomotive. How long does this bus actually run on electric power? Can we extend that time with more batteries or solar charging? |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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bwest
Administrator
United States
3820 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 2:13:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sambrutay
@ Wolfr & JustinB, What kind of fleet MPG avg do you see? Our fleet average of 1200 buses is 7.1 innercity.
What is the cost per unit? What kind of maintenance issues (if any) do you have? Are these just 2010 emmision diesels running a generator and in turn running an electirc motor like a diesel locamotive?
I'd really be interested in that cost per unit. |
Bryan |
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sambrutay
Advanced Member
United States
271 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2011 : 03:28:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bwest
quote:
Originally posted by sambrutay
@ Wolfr & JustinB, What kind of fleet MPG avg do you see? Our fleet average of 1200 buses is 7.1 innercity.
What is the cost per unit? What kind of maintenance issues (if any) do you have? Are these just 2010 emmision diesels running a generator and in turn running an electirc motor like a diesel locamotive?
I'd really be interested in that cost per unit.
136921.00 per bus. Maintenance issues, Not sure yet. |
Bruce |
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Wolf0r
Top Member
USA
2181 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2011 : 2:22:23 PM
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[/quote]
136921.00 per bus.[/quote]
What!?! |
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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JustinB
Advanced Member
United States
490 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2011 : 6:12:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Wolf0r
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136921.00 per bus.
What!?!
x2 
Depending on the system, that seems about $10,000 too high prior to subtracting the federal grant subsidy.
quote:
...Are these just 2010 emmision diesels running a generator and in turn running an electirc motor like a diesel locamotive?
More like a conventional driveline with an electric motor sandwiched between the clutch pack & a 6-speed (automated) manual gearbox.
The intent is to give a smaller engine enough of a Napoleon complex to perform bigger than it really is. This is most useful to input torque to the driveline under acceleration in high start/stop applications. |
I may not know the answer but I can usually find who does. |
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Kodie
Top Member
United States
2028 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2011 : 6:18:51 PM
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I think a lot of people overlook the fact that no matter what you add to a bus, it's still going to be transporting people.. which eventually adds up weight wise.. We can't expect to be pulling crazy high MPG's with something that weighs as much as it does when it's fully loaded. It seems as though the 6.7 Cummins is doing just about the same as the hybrid bus.. and when you compare costs, it's more feasible to go with Cummins. Familiarity, same mileage as the hybrid, and clean burning.
Figure 50 high school students at 140 lbs a piece (being somewhat generous actually) is 7,000 lbs. of extra weight.
As for the price, is that considered base spec hybrid, or with options? I know in NY buses are extremely expensive to begin with, even at a base price, so I'd be curious to see a spec'd to specific needs hybrid cost. |
Edited by - Kodie on 06/01/2011 6:34:18 PM |
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JustinB
Advanced Member
United States
490 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2011 : 04:33:02 AM
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A Fuller 6-speed hybrid usually adds $45,000 to the price tag over a similar spec bus with an Allison 2000PTS gearbox.
The better match for hybrid systems is in PTO applications that devour mucho engine hours. Think bucket trucks, tree trimmers & mam-o-gram coaches. The Eaton system is a 550watt 3-phase system. Many utilities will use theirs to run the bucket. They typically get 5 hours on battery for every hour on engine PTO. Some utilities also run the neighborhood while they change out transformers. Engines rarely shut down when powering up neighborhoods. |
I may not know the answer but I can usually find who does. |
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Fastback
Top Member
1500 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2011 : 04:52:07 AM
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| The first 120 mile trip we took with our new 2010 emission 42 passenger C2 netted us 10.5 mpg |
Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback |
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sambrutay
Advanced Member
United States
271 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2011 : 08:36:41 AM
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| 136921.00 per bus KY Spec C2 w/ Cummins & Fuller 6-speed hybrid, Our MAXXDT's W/ Fuller 6-speed hybrid are about $800 more. |
Bruce |
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Topic |
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HYBRID BUS
