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 New IC-AE Documentation Released, IC Type A
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Jake
Top Member

USA
3516 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2010 :  10:21:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
http://www.icbus.com/ICBus/Buses/School+Route/Overview/School+Route+AE+Series/

Check it out. I was highly surprised to see this kind of documentation leaked before the conference.

quote:

Introducing the first and only fully integrated Type A.

The AE Series goes far beyond where any Type A has gone before. Itís the first-ever Type A to be fully integrated, which means youíre completely covered. Plus, it doesnít just go the distance, itís designed to have a longer lifecycle than similar products in the industry.

Jared
Top Member

USA
1858 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2010 :  04:17:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jared's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I like it, its got a nice shape. Cant wait to see the interior.

I am liking almost everything about the new cowl on the International Terrastar except the old school sealed beam head lights. Its like a step backward from the aero lights on the Durastar.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredg21/sets/
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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2010 :  07:19:07 AM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Now that is a nice looking bus!

Robert B.

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Fastback
Top Member

895 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2010 :  07:22:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.navistar.com/portal/site/Navistar/menuitem.619df6dcb5f969c3a1f344ae931010a0/?vgnextoid=44869ed3d4686110VgnVCM10000085d0eb0aRCRD#

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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C2FAN
Senior Member

United States
95 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2010 :  11:00:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know why IC would come out with a Type A when they sell against the Type A with their BE bus. I am at the show and people are saying that this bus will be selling for $70-75,000 which puts it way above the Thomas or Blue Bird Type A buses. The whole thing just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
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Fastback
Top Member

895 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2010 :  11:59:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by C2FAN

I don't know why IC would come out with a Type A when they sell against the Type A with their BE bus. I am at the show and people are saying that this bus will be selling for $70-75,000 which puts it way above the Thomas or Blue Bird Type A buses. The whole thing just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.



As far as the Bluebird and Thomas goes, who really wants a diesel type A bus on a cutaway van chassis that is next to worthless after 7 years and 125,000 miles?
The BE and AE can share the same hood while the BE gets more parts form the bus side and the AE gets more parts from the truck side.
So what does a 30 passenger 2010 emission diesel Thomas or Bluebird Type A bus sell for?

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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Fastback
Top Member

895 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2010 :  12:49:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok my dealer says cutaway van diesel Thomas bus $60-$65,000. So 7 year bus for $60K or a 12 year bus for $70k.
Biggest downfall IMO to my type A Thomas is driver visibility to the right and working on anything on the engine. Not sure how the driver visibility would be in the new AE but at least you can see the engine

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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BBInt.10
Top Member

USA
1041 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2010 :  4:22:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit BBInt.10's Homepage  Send BBInt.10 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by C2FAN

I don't know why IC would come out with a Type A when they sell against the Type A with their BE bus. I am at the show and people are saying that this bus will be selling for $70-75,000 which puts it way above the Thomas or Blue Bird Type A buses. The whole thing just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.



Agreed. I'd take a BE over any type A any day for visibility purposes. For the price this is going to be selling for, couldn't you buy a BE?

If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver.
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member

USA
4163 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2010 :  6:28:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thomas Ford 85-16's Homepage  Send Thomas Ford 85-16 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Forget rightward visibility, what about forward visibility? The length of that hood puts the bus at a terrible disadvantage for loading zone visibility compared to any modern Type C and the current Type A offerings (which have a sloped van hood). I am certainly capable of safely driving a bus with a long nose because I count my kids and check my mirrors, and I think I would enjoy driving an IC AE, but that bus does take a step back in terms of progress for forward visibility.

Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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Fastback
Top Member

895 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2010 :  04:35:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yea, rightward visibility is only an issue if your route has left hand turns or crosses busy streets.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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Jared
Top Member

USA
1858 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2010 :  10:22:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jared's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Ford 85-16

Forget rightward visibility, what about forward visibility? The length of that hood puts the bus at a terrible disadvantage for loading zone visibility compared to any modern Type C and the current Type A offerings (which have a sloped van hood). I am certainly capable of safely driving a bus with a long nose because I count my kids and check my mirrors, and I think I would enjoy driving an IC AE, but that bus does take a step back in terms of progress for forward visibility.



Yeah but dont you just love seeing that big old rectangular hood when you drive your Ford? I know I do with my 87 Chevy!

Thats my nostalgic side coming out. But in all seriousness, forward visibility with the Ford and GM vans is pretty darn good with their very short stubby hoods.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredg21/sets/
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ttb
New Member

8 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2010 :  12:15:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit ttb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
$60k for a type A is wrong. A type A will run between $45-50. If everybody remembers, IC built the 3400 chassis for the school bus market and got nowhere because is was priced so expensive. Also, the higher GVW type A chassis will many of the same construction requirements of the AE. The 14,000 GVW chassis shares frame etc, of the GM 4500/5500
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Jake
Top Member

USA
3516 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2010 :  1:38:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ttb

$60k for a type A is wrong. A type A will run between $45-50. If everybody remembers, IC built the 3400 chassis for the school bus market and got nowhere because is was priced so expensive. Also, the higher GVW type A chassis will many of the same construction requirements of the AE. The 14,000 GVW chassis shares frame etc, of the GM 4500/5500



At the same time, this is a higher quality product if you read. You are buying a Type A that will last longer than the typical product offered by competitors. I also find it quite interesting that you pop up out of nowhere to voice your complaints, no profile information or history on your account.. possibly trying to vouch for someone?
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C2FAN
Senior Member

United States
95 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2010 :  1:56:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Seems this bus is built on the Terrastar chassis. This is probably why IC can build it at a minimal engineering cost. The chassis is already in production. I wonder where they will build this bus? Don't they build all of their buses under one roof now?

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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member

USA
4163 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2010 :  2:44:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit Thomas Ford 85-16's Homepage  Send Thomas Ford 85-16 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jared

quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Ford 85-16

Forget rightward visibility, what about forward visibility? The length of that hood puts the bus at a terrible disadvantage for loading zone visibility compared to any modern Type C and the current Type A offerings (which have a sloped van hood). I am certainly capable of safely driving a bus with a long nose because I count my kids and check my mirrors, and I think I would enjoy driving an IC AE, but that bus does take a step back in terms of progress for forward visibility.



Yeah but dont you just love seeing that big old rectangular hood when you drive your Ford? I know I do with my 87 Chevy!

Thats my nostalgic side coming out. But in all seriousness, forward visibility with the Ford and GM vans is pretty darn good with their very short stubby hoods.


Jared I totally agree; I do love my Ford's mile-long nose! For similar reasons I enjoy driving a conventional on the job any chance I get. That being said, the realist in me waters down the nostalgia every now any then and accepts that the new vogue is to see your kids with direct line of sight. You seem to have done the same, hehe.

Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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RichBusman
Advanced Member

448 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2010 :  6:18:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Type A's have improved greatly in recent years, to the point where getting 200,000 miles out of them is not uncommon. It is being done on a consistent basis here in NY, and that is with harsh roads and a harsh climate. GM and Ford both offer heavy duty 14,000 pound chassis now, and the GM in particular has upgraded brakes and frame strength over the 12,300 version.

Advantages of a "standard" Type A:

- Lower initial upfront cost

- Lower parts cost

- No major emissions systems if ordered with gasoline engine

- Larger dealer service network for chassis

- Lower height

- Lower profile stepwell

- Better forward visibility

Advantages of IC Type A:

- Body/chassis serviced at same dealership

- Heavier frame

- Improved structure warranty versus certain Type A manufacturers

- Improved structure versus certain Type A manufacturers

- 78" headroom versus 76.5 tallest offering on standard Type A

- Hood opens forward

It will be interesting to see how overall sales are, but it will likely be similar to what the BE has done in the past few years, or what the International 3200 did back in the 90s and the GM C4500 did in the early 2000s.

Edited by - RichBusman on 12/11/2012 1:14:36 PM
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ttb
New Member

8 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2010 :  6:37:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit ttb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jake

quote:
Originally posted by ttb

$60k for a type A is wrong. A type A will run between $45-50. If everybody remembers, IC built the 3400 chassis for the school bus market and got nowhere because is was priced so expensive. Also, the higher GVW type A chassis will many of the same construction requirements of the AE. The 14,000 GVW chassis shares frame etc, of the GM 4500/5500



At the same time, this is a higher quality product if you read. You are buying a Type A that will last longer than the typical product offered by competitors. I also find it quite interesting that you pop up out of nowhere to voice your complaints, no profile information or history on your account.. possibly trying to vouch for someone?



Lost my old user name and started a new one, so I didn't just pop out of nowhere. I have worked in a type A factory, the one that was the first on the 3400. In terms of the body lasting longer is foolish. We built a commercial version on the 3400 for the Port Authority of Allegheny County. The bus got 110,000 miles in 11 months. The body was fine. All I'm saying is that totally dismissing anything Ford or GM does because there is an IC on the hood is ludicrous. They make mistakes just like everybody else. I have seen 1992 type A buses still in service with over 500,000 miles so it can be done!
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Fastback
Top Member

895 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2010 :  04:52:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ttb

quote:
Originally posted by Jake

quote:
Originally posted by ttb

$60k for a type A is wrong. A type A will run between $45-50. If everybody remembers, IC built the 3400 chassis for the school bus market and got nowhere because is was priced so expensive. Also, the higher GVW type A chassis will many of the same construction requirements of the AE. The 14,000 GVW chassis shares frame etc, of the GM 4500/5500



At the same time, this is a higher quality product if you read. You are buying a Type A that will last longer than the typical product offered by competitors. I also find it quite interesting that you pop up out of nowhere to voice your complaints, no profile information or history on your account.. possibly trying to vouch for someone?



Lost my old user name and started a new one, so I didn't just pop out of nowhere. I have worked in a type A factory, the one that was the first on the 3400. In terms of the body lasting longer is foolish. We built a commercial version on the 3400 for the Port Authority of Allegheny County. The bus got 110,000 miles in 11 months. The body was fine. All I'm saying is that totally dismissing anything Ford or GM does because there is an IC on the hood is ludicrous. They make mistakes just like everybody else. I have seen 1992 type A buses still in service with over 500,000 miles so it can be done!



Well I don't think you are going to buy a diesel, 2010 emission type A for $50k, lucky if for $60k. And you can preach how long they can last all day long but come trade in time a 7 year old 150,000 mile type A cutaway van bus has little value.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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YellowBox
Advanced Member

Puerto Rico (USA)
254 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2010 :  3:25:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jared

I like it, its got a nice shape. Cant wait to see the interior.

I am liking almost everything about the new cowl on the International Terrastar except the old school sealed beam head lights. Its like a step backward from the aero lights on the Durastar.



I like the HEAD LIGHT configuration they choose for this TYPE A School Bus. The "aero-lights" get a lot of troubles, they get water inside no matter how sealed they are,the LEXAN oe PLASTIC lens cover fades or turns yellow with time. So if they choose the old-school style HEAD LIGHTS I hope it has a GLASS lens cover not a LEXAN one.

Does the INTERNATIONAL TERRA-STAR series is here to fill the market void FORD left for the "POWERSTROKE-MAXXFORCE 7" V8 engine???

Edited by - YellowBox on 11/06/2010 3:28:08 PM
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YellowBox
Advanced Member

Puerto Rico (USA)
254 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2010 :  3:37:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another TYPE A School Bus for the market (As if we haven't too much of them) Well lets see how this will turn for IC-BUS. After they trashed the TYPE A segment on the MARKETING of their own TYPE B school bus (BE SERIES)making a TYPE A school bus is kind of odd fot them. Other TYPE A school bus manufacturers have ALTERNATIVE FUEL options for their oferings such as GASOLINE ENGINES, PROPANE FUELED or HYBRID-ELECTRIC so they have an advantage over the DIESEL ENGINE ONLY, WITH NO SCR TYPE A SCHOOL BUS

Edited by - YellowBox on 11/06/2010 3:41:15 PM
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Allamericanre
Advanced Member

USA
238 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2010 :  5:28:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like the design, but the hood length looks odd to me. I wonder if this roof cap design will go to the other models in the future.

quote:
Originally posted by C2FAN

I wonder where they will build this bus? Don't they build all of their buses under one roof now?


The other models are at the Tulsa, OK plant, so I imagine the AE will be built there too.


http://www.flickr.com/groups/schoolbus/


Edited by - Allamericanre on 11/06/2010 5:34:45 PM
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Fastback
Top Member

895 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2010 :  08:13:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well this is the only type A I am aware of that the entire bus is built by one manufacturer. That was a good thing for the conventional bus.
Oh, I havnt even mentioned our E450 Thomas 30 pass. Minotour gets well out maneuvered turning radius wise by our 53 passenger IC conventional.

Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback

Edited by - Fastback on 11/07/2010 08:14:03 AM
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Carp_26
Administrator

United States
158 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2010 :  07:01:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think it will be interesting to see how many of these units they sell. This style of bus has not been popular in the market for Mid bus with their School Coach or Guide. I also believe Transtech and Corbeil both showcased this style of bus as well (GMC and Intetnational) respectively. Cost will be a large factor to compete against the true type A van cut-aways. Does anyone have figures on the BE and how well it has sold? Most smaller IC buses with or without lifts in my area are the CE series 36, 42, 48 pax. I know of only 2 BE's in another county.
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JRob
Senior Member

175 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  07:12:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit JRob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Navistar's plan to replace what they were selling in engines to Ford all along has been to work the niche market angle. You've seen engine supply deals with Yard Tractor manufacturers, RV's, Fire Trucks, etc. The TerraStar class 4-5 truck is a move in that same direction filling a gap that GMC vacated when they exited that segment.

Navistar estimates the Type A market at 8,000 units. The issue they confront is that the Type A market is not monolithic. In fact, it is probably the most diverse of the school bus segments. So 8,000 units are divided between Single Rear Wheel cutaways used on the East Coast and by many Childcare customers, Dual Rear Wheel units used as Activity and School Buses by school districts, private schools, and head starts. At the end of the day the actual number of potential customers for this unit is significantly smaller than the whole. The best customer targets will be the people who are already buying their school buses and that in some way will cannabalize BE and even some small CE sales. So there is very little incremental gain there.

The incremental sales would have to come with Head Starts, Child Cares, Private Schools, and entities that don't have full fledged transportation operations and have 1 or 2 buses. This is where Ford and GM have an advantage. They have significantly more service points than Navistar. Many in that market place can't tell you where their Navistar dealer is but I bet they have multiple Ford or GM options even with the downsized dealer organizations.

No doubt the vehicle is heavier duty but most of the incremental customers aren't necessarily using that criteria as the top factor in making the buying decision. The price advantage GM and Ford have on their products is still significant with a gas engine even more so. Additionally, the gas engine is a significant player in this segment with these customers.

It's a good looking unit but I think they have some challenges to overcome to make it successful.
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Fastback
Top Member

895 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  07:54:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
AE; available with 134", 158", 169", 195" wheel base & 16,500- 19,500 lbs GVWR



BE; only with 158" wheelbase and 16,000-17,500 lbs GVWR




Why yes, the ORIGinal CHARGER is a Fastback
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Matt Maj
New Member

2 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2012 :  12:08:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Matt Maj's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Any word on when production will actually start?

First we were told June 2012:

http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/Channel/Bus-Maintenance/News/2012/03/26/IC-Bus-boosts-efficiency-at-Tulsa-plant.aspx

Now we are being told Fall 2012:

http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/Channel/Contractors/Articles/2012/06/New-Execs-Bring-Fresh-Eyes-to-IC-Bus/Page/2.aspx

Any particular reason for the delay?

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Mechan1c
Top Member

USA
663 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2012 :  5:36:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Major Matt Mason???
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Matt Maj
New Member

2 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2012 :  12:20:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit Matt Maj's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mechan1c

Major Matt Mason???



lol... not a superhero, and definitely not an action figure!

Although, if I did have superpowers, I could maybe figure out what is happening with the AE. We were suppose to get a wheelchair lift AE to replace a 1999 International Bluebird in June; then I was told September; now I'm being told I can have a loaner BE at the beginning of the year. The Board approved a new bus in June of 2011! The dealer seems frustrated and now I am too!
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JRob
Senior Member

175 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2012 :  6:10:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit JRob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Seriously?!?!?! You've been waiting over a year for that bus? I'd tell them to fish or cut bait and start looking for an alternative.
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RichBusman
Advanced Member

448 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2012 :  1:13:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Supposedly July 2013 now for deliveries. That is for the districts that are still brave enough to wait even longer and buy it.

Gotta love the tap dancing the dealers have been doing trying to save any orders for this mystery bus.
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rickhamilton620
Active Member

24 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2012 :  4:56:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit rickhamilton620's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RichBusman

Supposedly July 2013 now for deliveries. That is for the districts that are still brave enough to wait even longer and buy it.

Gotta love the tap dancing the dealers have been doing trying to save any orders for this mystery bus.



IC AE: The "Duke Nukem Forever" of school bus launches.
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Tatum
Top Member

United States
604 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2012 :  5:35:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is the AE meeting emissions requirements? How much is it costing to build?
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