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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
 Posted - 08/07/2009 : 11:06:26 AM
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For the conservative puppets on here, here is an article to read. Sums up my thoughts on the issue for the most part. And I consider myself very moderate when it comes to politics, vote for both republicans and democrats. Wish more Americans were more independent thinking instead of being locked up on one side and always *****ing at "liberal knuckle headed politicians" and (insert word here) conservatives.
http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/clunker-class-war/?ref=opinion
Let the flaming begin! And yes, I'm sorry I got this blog from the mainstream media, not Faux News. Always amazes me at how the bleeding heart conservatives say Fox is so fair and balanced, yet it has the most conservative slant out there. CNN is far more fair, MSNBC is tilted liberal. |
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Edited by - Rich on 08/07/2009 11:16:37 AM |
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03CV200
Top Member
United States
740 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 12:24:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich
For the conservative puppets on here, here is an article to read. Sums up my thoughts on the issue for the most part. And I consider myself very moderate when it comes to politics, vote for both republicans and democrats. Wish more Americans were more independent thinking instead of being locked up on one side and always *****ing at "liberal knuckle headed politicians" and (insert word here) conservatives.
http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/clunker-class-war/?ref=opinion
Let the flaming begin! And yes, I'm sorry I got this blog from the mainstream media, not Faux News. Always amazes me at how the bleeding heart conservatives say Fox is so fair and balanced, yet it has the most conservative slant out there. CNN is far more fair, MSNBC is tilted liberal.
Wow, an absolutely amazing article. My thoughts exactly. Thanks for sharing this, it good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. |
-Dave |
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 4:34:39 PM
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That won't sway my opinion.
It is still a disgrace to trade in and destroy a car with 30,000 miles, let alone 130,000 miles, if it runs and drives perfectly (remember, the criteria for the trade-in voucher must be that the car has to be in near perfect condition and has to be driveable), and has plenty of service life left in it.
I'm stunned you can't see things that way. Instead of sending perfectly running cars/trucks, etc to the crusher, DONATE THEM TO FREAKIN' CHARITY AND ABOLISH THIS FARCE.
That's only the first part.
My second most troublesome issue with this whole thing is the blatant and oh-so-obvious misuse of the word "Clunker." I'm sorry, but a car that looks like it's been a garage queen its whole life (specifically, that Mustang I posted above, and the story of a ULTRA RARE BMW being traded in), is by far from a clunker. Same goes for the other cars being traded in.
I'll restate it again, just incase you missed it.
From Merriam-Webster.
Main Entry: clunk¡¤er
Pronunciation: \#712;kl#601;©¯-k#601;r\
Function: noun
Date: 1943
1: an old or badly working piece of machinery ; especially : a dilapidated automobile
2: someone or something notably unsuccessful <told a joke that was a real clunker>
From Wikipedia's disambiguation page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clunker
An old car, generally in poor condition
A western Canadian term for a large hiking boot, often found in outdoors stores
A Cruiser bicycle built during the mid Seventies, in Marin county, California. The inspiration for the Mountain bike.
Watch any video on YouTube, Rich. The cars that are being traded in are far from the TRUE definition of the word "Clunker."
And 25 years (the oldest car must not be older than 1984) is by far from "old." If that's the case, then I'm ancient!
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http://www.gilligcoaches.net |
Edited by - Steven A.Rosenow on 08/07/2009 4:42:58 PM |
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 5:02:12 PM
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Oh, and to add to my above post.
Look at this mint condition Volvo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo
Clunker? FAR FROM IT.
Check this link out:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2009/08/02/cash-clunkers-video-sparks-outrage-over-wasteful-government-programs
And this quoted post from the Crown Coach Junkies messageboard, which aludes to some details on how California citizens were "brainwashed" by the media to pass CARB's school bus replacement program (and also touches on the farce that the Cars Allowance Rebate System is:
quote:
Originally posted by Crown Coach Junkies member Keith Osborn.
This is a first for me. I always wondered who starts chain emails. I guess ordinary folks do. Everyone is receiving a "blind carbon copy", so as to ensure the continuance of their privacy. If you disagree at all, please don't get exited, just delete. I recognize that never can we all agree. Everyone's got their own perspective. The email itself is not worth getting excited about- the content is.
Yesterday (08-06-09, people never put dates in their chain emails- that bugs me) I learned of a detail about the Cash for "perfectly good cars"- oh, sorry- "clunkers" fiasco, debacle, scam, crime hmmm... what exactly do you call it?
Anyway, the detail I learned of is that the cars and their engines must be destroyed, not even sold for parts. I learned this from the Wall Street Journal, and have since found a website- it's link is attached- that so mirrors my reaction, that fortunately I do not have to repeat it.
Most probably don't know, but the state of Kalifornia has been doing this for sometime, only with buses. It was made possible by a bill voted on and passed by the people. The media was instructed to make it pass.
Our government- correction- our employees, our politicians, are WAY out of control, and it seems to be getting worse at an alarming exponential rate.
The trouble is there are no consequences for their actions. They control the media, so the media makes their actions appear good to the masses. So they get reelected. They don't go to jail, they don't go to prison, they seemingly never even get shot, these days at least. So I'm not sure what the solution is, but a good dose of awareness couldn't hurt.
It is a moral fact that "no man is entitled to the product of another man's labor". This means that one man cannot be taxed against his will in order to provide a better lifestyle for another man.
This current debacle- and the health care one, for that matter- is just that. Productive people are being taxed against their will. That stolen money is then given to auto manufacturers who did not EARN it by developing good products.
Lastly, if you made it this far, these politicians are conveniently ignoring the resources that are used JUST TO PRODUCE AN AUTOMOBILE. Those resources are equivalent to driving that automobile for many tens of thousands of miles. Instead, it is being thrown away, along with any hope of savings supposedly garnered by the more fuel efficient newer vehicle.
That's because the program is not about fuel efficiency, or pollution, or anything except POLITICAL FAVORS.
I love our country. It has it's flaws, but it was built on fairly sound ideas. Not perfect, but a noble idea. These self-serving politicians are steeling it from us, and we need to take it back. There needs to be, once again, consequences for their actions.
Enjoy the show
And its direct reply, and I've emphasized important parts in bold and red text.
quote:
Since when has government, any government anywhere in the world (even those of the socially progressive nations of Scandinavia and Benelux), overwhelmingly displayed practical down-to-earth common sense and wisdom? What is strange to me is how individual government employees may well possess those attributes on a personal level, but collectively the end result of their labors displays an almost-total lack of those attributes. If one were to ask a typical government employee whether it made any sense to crush a perfectly good school bus like a Crown or Gillig, just because its engine polluted more than most newer vehicles, I'm sure the employee would laugh at that preposterous suggestion and would ask why one couldn't simply re-engine those buses with newer cleaner engines. Yet there is an aching chasm between that individual and the official policy that eventually results from the labors of that individual and others like him/her. Weird.
As a State of CA employee myself I see this all the time. Seemingly smart folk where I work often come up with incomprehensibly dumb policies and decisions, utterly at odds with their personal intelligence or practicality. Because SCAQMD is composed of unelected empire-builders and bureaucrats, we are seeing the inevitable consequences of this perplexing aspect of collective human nature.
John, glad that buses are easier to understand than people.
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Jake
Top Member
USA
3527 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 5:29:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven A.Rosenow
Oh, and to add to my above post.
Look at this mint condition Volvo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo
Clunker? FAR FROM IT.
Check this link out:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2009/08/02/cash-clunkers-video-sparks-outrage-over-wasteful-government-programs
And this quoted post from the Crown Coach Junkies messageboard, which aludes to some details on how California citizens were "brainwashed" by the media to pass CARB's school bus replacement program (and also touches on the farce that the Cars Allowance Rebate System is:
quote:
Originally posted by Crown Coach Junkies member Keith Osborn.
This is a first for me. I always wondered who starts chain emails. I guess ordinary folks do. Everyone is receiving a "blind carbon copy", so as to ensure the continuance of their privacy. If you disagree at all, please don't get exited, just delete. I recognize that never can we all agree. Everyone's got their own perspective. The email itself is not worth getting excited about- the content is.
Yesterday (08-06-09, people never put dates in their chain emails- that bugs me) I learned of a detail about the Cash for "perfectly good cars"- oh, sorry- "clunkers" fiasco, debacle, scam, crime hmmm... what exactly do you call it?
Anyway, the detail I learned of is that the cars and their engines must be destroyed, not even sold for parts. I learned this from the Wall Street Journal, and have since found a website- it's link is attached- that so mirrors my reaction, that fortunately I do not have to repeat it.
Most probably don't know, but the state of Kalifornia has been doing this for sometime, only with buses. It was made possible by a bill voted on and passed by the people. The media was instructed to make it pass.
Our government- correction- our employees, our politicians, are WAY out of control, and it seems to be getting worse at an alarming exponential rate.
The trouble is there are no consequences for their actions. They control the media, so the media makes their actions appear good to the masses. So they get reelected. They don't go to jail, they don't go to prison, they seemingly never even get shot, these days at least. So I'm not sure what the solution is, but a good dose of awareness couldn't hurt.
It is a moral fact that "no man is entitled to the product of another man's labor". This means that one man cannot be taxed against his will in order to provide a better lifestyle for another man.
This current debacle- and the health care one, for that matter- is just that. Productive people are being taxed against their will. That stolen money is then given to auto manufacturers who did not EARN it by developing good products.
Lastly, if you made it this far, these politicians are conveniently ignoring the resources that are used JUST TO PRODUCE AN AUTOMOBILE. Those resources are equivalent to driving that automobile for many tens of thousands of miles. Instead, it is being thrown away, along with any hope of savings supposedly garnered by the more fuel efficient newer vehicle.
That's because the program is not about fuel efficiency, or pollution, or anything except POLITICAL FAVORS.
I love our country. It has it's flaws, but it was built on fairly sound ideas. Not perfect, but a noble idea. These self-serving politicians are steeling it from us, and we need to take it back. There needs to be, once again, consequences for their actions.
Enjoy the show
And its direct reply, and I've emphasized important parts in bold and red text.
quote:
Since when has government, any government anywhere in the world (even those of the socially progressive nations of Scandinavia and Benelux), overwhelmingly displayed practical down-to-earth common sense and wisdom? What is strange to me is how individual government employees may well possess those attributes on a personal level, but collectively the end result of their labors displays an almost-total lack of those attributes. If one were to ask a typical government employee whether it made any sense to crush a perfectly good school bus like a Crown or Gillig, just because its engine polluted more than most newer vehicles, I'm sure the employee would laugh at that preposterous suggestion and would ask why one couldn't simply re-engine those buses with newer cleaner engines. Yet there is an aching chasm between that individual and the official policy that eventually results from the labors of that individual and others like him/her. Weird.
As a State of CA employee myself I see this all the time. Seemingly smart folk where I work often come up with incomprehensibly dumb policies and decisions, utterly at odds with their personal intelligence or practicality. Because SCAQMD is composed of unelected empire-builders and bureaucrats, we are seeing the inevitable consequences of this perplexing aspect of collective human nature.
John, glad that buses are easier to understand than people.
Dude, please! I am tired of hearing all "CROWN AND GILLIG; CROWN AND GILILG!" Please take others in consideration! Sheesh! I understand you like them but most of the people on here are from the midwest and we probably won't see or even need to be bothered about whats going on with Crowns and Gilligs in California. How about Waynes? They were built strong.. some districts still have 25+ year old Waynes running here and no plans of replacement, despite all the salt and rust that accumulate from Kentucky roadways.
Theres a time for every bus to be retired. In my opinion, the average age of a bus that the kids ride to school should not be older than the average age of the car their parents drive on a regular basis. We need to move on from the seventies, and look toward the future. Much has improved safety wise, and no one is investing in retrofitting the older buses - so let them be! I don't totally agree with smashing them, but let them move on into their afterlife. If someone wants to buy one and restore it - thats practically fine. However these buses do not need to be in operation, reguardless of their condition (good or bad). I'm sure parts are getting harder to find, and their engines are accumulating way too many miles than they were probably designed for. Let's think of the CHILDREN, not the material things they ride in! That is whats wrong with this forum, we focus too much on the buses and not about what the purpose of "school bus transportation" is... transporting children to school! And that should be done in the most efficient, safe and reliable ways possible. I do not see any buses older than 20 years fitting that definition either. |
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 5:43:00 PM
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I was merely using it as an example. I wasn't at all trying to turn this into a discussion merely about school bus retirement, etc.
I was trying to illustrate the striking similarities between the CARB program (which by the way affected more than Gilligs or Crowns, it effected every diesel school bus in California) and the CARS (or Cash for Clunkers) program, and why both are driving this country into the ground. |
http://www.gilligcoaches.net |
Edited by - Steven A.Rosenow on 08/07/2009 5:44:17 PM |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 7:19:44 PM
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Listen, with the money spent on everything else in the country, I don't see how 3 billion used to help the auto industry, it's dealers, and suppliers is so bad. And if a person can save 500 bucks a year on fuel, in this economy, that is huge.
Are those points not valid?
We blew 50 billion on the crooks at GM, so 3 billion to help out local dealers and the people who buy the cars isn't such a bad deal. |
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 7:26:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich
Listen, with the money spent on everything else in the country, I don't see how 3 billion used to help the auto industry, it's dealers, and suppliers is so bad. And if a person can save 500 bucks a year on fuel, in this economy, that is huge.
Are those points not valid?
We blew 50 billion on the crooks at GM, so 3 billion to help out local dealers and the people who buy the cars isn't such a bad deal.
No, they're not valid, BECAUSE IT'S TAXPAYER DOLLARS supporting these vouchers.
I SHOULD NOT be supporting Joe Blow's $4500 rebate just so he can turn in his 1990 Chevy pickup truck on a damned Prius on my dime. Screw that crap. If ANYTHING (and even then I'm still opposed to the idea just on principle) those vouchers should be towards the purchase of a FORD, GM, OR CHRYSLER, NOT a freakin' overrated, cheaply built import hybrid (I've ridden in several Priuses and quite frankly their build quality is akin to a Yugo).
Get a clue, Richard.
I'm a member of six car forums, and in all six car forums (including being the regional chapter president of one and the club it's the home to), the vast population is opposed, no - make that HIGHLY OPPOSED, to this farce.
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http://www.gilligcoaches.net |
Edited by - Steven A.Rosenow on 08/07/2009 7:34:12 PM |
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mrwaibel
Senior Member
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 7:30:02 PM
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This program needs to be stopped immediately. Its rediculous how the government it trying to force us into buying more environmentally friendly cars and people are too stupid to realize it. Thats what Cash For Clunkers is all about they figure a car that gets better MPG is also putting out less smog why else would they specify that the clunker first of all be in running condition and then that it be disabled, they don't care about us and our finances they just wan't to take environmentally unfriendly vehicles off the road. All the money distributed for Cash for Clunkers will have to be paid back eventually by the tax payers. Its basically a loan for the future. Thats all the liberal knuckle headed democrats ever think about is spending big money and protecting the environment, not that I support anything Bush has done in Iraq or Bailing out the banks, They should be on their own and then maybe cash would become more valuable if the banks couldn't write anymore loans. Its because the Banks were lending out money to irresponsable people that got them in the mess their in. I own a school bus contracting service if I got into financial trouble the Government would do nothing for me. So why should they help the auto industry or the banks I say let em piss.
What really pisses me off is that their destroying perfectly good used vehicles that are still useable. The old saying they don't build them like they used to well its true The cars these people are buying are not near as strong as what they are trading in. Obamas disrupting the whole used car market no one can disagree with that. The worst part about it is that I own a 1989 GMC 1500 Regular cab with 217,000 miles and it runs like new yet with all the trucks of that era being traded in and going straight to the crusher instead of being recycled for parts like they should be. How am I going to find parts for my truck years down the road theirs going to be a gap in model years at the scrap yard because of cash for clunkers.
People are too stupid to realize that their being manipulated by the government into buying more environmentally friendly cars. Of coarse they don't care because their getting top dollar for their trade without having to haggle the salesman. In turn the salesmen love it because they don't have to haggle with buyers because salesmen use the CARS rebate as leverage so it looks like the buyers getting a great deal. The Big Fat salesman inturn ups the base price and the bottom line to compensate for the paperwork and make some extra commission. The ones who suffer from the Cash for Clunkers is the people that are in the market for a $500-$4,500 used car or truck and future tax payers as well.
From now on I pledge to do everything I can to contribute to global warming just to piss off the Environmental Freaks. Iam gonna leave my school bus idle excessively when I feel like it, Iam going to burn all the gardage I can as I always have, I already have 2 pickup trucks with the catalytic converters removed in which I shall drive more often now and finally I will burn all my old farm tires rather than recycle them. |
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 7:41:02 PM
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EXACTLY mrwaibel! 
Oh, and one more thing, Richard. I'm not sure how high gas prices got over in NYC last summer when they spiked to record levels, but here they got to above $5 per gallon.
Wanna know what I did? I bit down, cut back on a lot of unnecessary driving (of course, I still commute 40 miles to work each day one-way for an 80-mile round trip), and I adjusted by lightening up my load in the trunk and making sure my tires were properly inflated, etc.
We're being manipulated by eco-freak whackjobs out there who have petitioned the government (and won with great unfortunate circumstances) just so we as the rest of society can drive around in small, unsafe Matchbox-style cars. My '96 Taurus gets better crash test results than a Prius. And a Smart Fortwo? PAHLEEZE. The second you get into one of those, you're signing your death wish.
And our government? Again, PAHLEEZE.
You seriously think this is worth anything?
I've said my piece (er, peace?) about CARB's school bus replacement program, but it goes without saying that CARB is one OF THE LARGEST FACTORS which lead to California's bankrupcty as a state. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
This "Cash for (decent cars traded in for cars people don't deserve; I refuse to use the word "Clunker" from here on out)" program isn't any better, and will not benefit this country as a whole.
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http://www.gilligcoaches.net |
Edited by - Steven A.Rosenow on 08/07/2009 7:44:37 PM |
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Tatum
Top Member
United States
606 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 7:42:50 PM
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This thread (and Cash for Clunkers) is brought to you by the word: "SOCIALISM"!!
Obama is a joke. Cash for Clunkers is a joke. Everything that was fought for in WWII (FREEDOM) is being abolished. Where the hell is the positive change Obama promised? I haven't found it!
Obama is the very reason why I'm holding off earning Eagle Scout as long as I can. I DO NOT want his signature on my card that I will receive.
Steven, I agree with you 100%!! |
Edited by - Tatum on 08/07/2009 8:11:46 PM |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 8:14:43 PM
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What the HELL is wrong with putting more environmentally friendly vehicles on the road? Are you ****ing kidding me? I can't believe what I'm hearing, I wouldn't even expect this at a backwoods conservative circle jerk.
I know you're pissed at crushing "good" cars, but are you really opposed to helping the environment? |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 8:17:48 PM
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And Steve, one more thing. CARB has very little to do with California's deficit. The housing crunch, along with many other screwed up things with their corrupt government has to do with it.
New York State reimburses school districts on bus purchases and we aren't in the same boat. |
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Tatum
Top Member
United States
606 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 8:22:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich
I know you're pissed at crushing "good" cars, but are you really opposed to helping the environment?
I don't have a problem helping the environment. I do, however, have a problem helping Obama.
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Edited by - Tatum on 08/07/2009 8:27:12 PM |
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 8:32:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich
What the HELL is wrong with putting more environmentally friendly vehicles on the road? Are you ****ing kidding me? I can't believe what I'm hearing, I wouldn't even expect this at a backwoods conservative circle jerk.
I know you're pissed at crushing "good" cars, but are you really opposed to helping the environment?
For one, the "global warming" phrase and ideology behind it is a farce.
It has been scientifically proven through studies of Antarctic ice that this planet has gone through hotter heating cycles, as well as cooler ones.
There is NO, I REPEAT NO SOUND, INDEPENDENT scientific studies that prove that there is a such thing as human-caused global warming. The studies that tout global warming as "tehOMG teh WORLD WIL DIEZ!!!11!!!" thing we should be gravely worried about are those that are backed by environmentalist whackjob special interest groups whop would rather see us live they do, drive like they do.
Don't get me wrong, I recycle as much as possible, but doing this in the name of "helping the environment" is a farce if I've ever heard of.
Ever study science, Richard?
The Mt. St. Helens eruptive cycle in 1980 put more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than this entire country has put out in 100 years. Pinatubo in 1991? Put out 150 times the amount St. Helens did.
The Kuwait Oil Fires in 1991 during the Gulf war? It would take every semi truck, bus, and truck running NONSTOP for 350 YEARS to equal the pollution that those Kuwait fires put out in the few months they burned.
Also, ya ever figure out that maybe climate change is happening, because, climate DOES CHANGE? I mean, seriously.
But then, I guess some people believe "The year without a summer" in 1816 wasn't because of low solar activity and the eruption of Mount Tambora the year prior.
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 8:53:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich
And Steve, one more thing. CARB has very little to do with California's deficit. The housing crunch, along with many other screwed up things with their corrupt government has to do with it.
New York State reimburses school districts on bus purchases and we aren't in the same boat.
Letsee here
$140,000 per bus, according to CARB guidelines
Add that to 4,400 buses demolished since 2000
The end result? $616,000,000
Six hundred sixteen MILLION dollars.
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Tatum
Top Member
United States
606 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 9:46:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jake
Dude, please! I am tired of hearing all "CROWN AND GILLIG; CROWN AND GILILG!" Please take others in consideration! Sheesh! I understand you like them but most of the people on here are from the midwest and we probably won't see or even need to be bothered about whats going on with Crowns and Gilligs in California.
We had to put up with your Ward Senator crap!
ANYWAYS.....
I wish people wouldn't give in to Obama...They just don't understand it. HE IS RUINING AMERICA!
Take the hints, Obama! |
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Jake
Top Member
USA
3527 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 06:46:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tatum
We had to put up with your Ward Senator crap!
ANYWAYS.....
What the hell are you talking about? Are you still going on with the same crap you are on SBC? Search "Senator" by my name in the search field here... only several times have I actually went to mention the bus in the past year, with most of the results being from 2007. If you continually harass me I will be talking to the forum administrator. This will be the very last time I correct you about this! |
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Schoolbus56
Senior Member
United States
128 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 06:52:45 AM
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Cash For Clunkers... Keeps America rolling to an extent..
Look at it from this point of view.
1. It keeps dealers open weather it be a us or froeign car the people here selling the cars LIVE HERE.
2. The Guys that Drive the auto haulers and the Railroad Industry, that haul the cars are working..
3. Yes it gets gas guzzlers and potenially unsafe older cars off the road. A new car is Safer than an old car.
(a car may look mint from the top But years of salt moisture etc rusted out brake lines. NOT ALL STATES have saftey inspections.
4. Most Toyots are made here in the US anyway... American Workforce IN AMERICA making cars.. those people are working rather than living on Unemployment.
The List goes on and on....
There is some down sides to CARS.
As Far as old buses.
ALL BUSES HAVE A DESIGN LIFE (.) PERIOD
TRANSIT STYLE BUSES 15 YEARS
CONVENTIONAL 12 YEARS
TYPE A BUSES (DEPENDS ON BODY MANUF)
Carb works for california. The old crowns and gilligs had thier run... But you can look at it 6 ways til Sunday. Your putting students on a 20 30 40 year old bus OBSURD!!!!!! there may be no rust. There is other things to look into METAL FATUIGE airplanes get INSPECTED stripped down to check the structure Does anyone strip down a 20 30 or 40 year old crown or gillig.......NO!!! That bus is a ROLLING DEATHTRAP!!!! no MODERN saftey standards, Push out windows Roof Hatches. on some. Yeah it conforms to '77 standards. BUT we are in the year 2009 now come on..
Needles California, Has crowns.... Now they are getting replaced by new Thomas ER's
Modern Buses With A/C Seat belts ETC.
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 07:50:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven A.Rosenow
quote:
Originally posted by Rich
What the HELL is wrong with putting more environmentally friendly vehicles on the road? Are you ****ing kidding me? I can't believe what I'm hearing, I wouldn't even expect this at a backwoods conservative circle jerk.
I know you're pissed at crushing "good" cars, but are you really opposed to helping the environment?
For one, the "global warming" phrase and ideology behind it is a farce.
It has been scientifically proven through studies of Antarctic ice that this planet has gone through hotter heating cycles, as well as cooler ones.
There is NO, I REPEAT NO SOUND, INDEPENDENT scientific studies that prove that there is a such thing as human-caused global warming. The studies that tout global warming as "tehOMG teh WORLD WIL DIEZ!!!11!!!" thing we should be gravely worried about are those that are backed by environmentalist whackjob special interest groups whop would rather see us live they do, drive like they do.
Don't get me wrong, I recycle as much as possible, but doing this in the name of "helping the environment" is a farce if I've ever heard of.
Ever study science, Richard?
The Mt. St. Helens eruptive cycle in 1980 put more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than this entire country has put out in 100 years. Pinatubo in 1991? Put out 150 times the amount St. Helens did.
The Kuwait Oil Fires in 1991 during the Gulf war? It would take every semi truck, bus, and truck running NONSTOP for 350 YEARS to equal the pollution that those Kuwait fires put out in the few months they burned.
Also, ya ever figure out that maybe climate change is happening, because, climate DOES CHANGE? I mean, seriously.
But then, I guess some people believe "The year without a summer" in 1816 wasn't because of low solar activity and the eruption of Mount Tambora the year prior.
I don't doubt that the earth has natural climate cycle, that is obvious. The thing that is alarming is how quickly this cycle has come on. And through tests on many glaciers, there is proof that the world has not been this warm for thousands of years.
Could we at least agree that humans are at least accelerating the climate change?
I still dont see what is so bad about doing anything we can to improve our air. Hybrids will eventually be standard fare in our lifetimes, whether you like it or not. Our gas cars will be a thing of the past, replaced with electric motors that will eventually be just as fast and way more efficient than what we are using now.
And listen, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, or a "tree hugger". I consider myself very independent, and I want to see the environment improve. I can't stand people who insist on proving a point by purposely running bombs and doing other bull**** like Mr. Waibel. How the hell is that patriotic? Only point you're proving is that you're a short sighted moron. |
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Edited by - Rich on 08/08/2009 07:57:05 AM |
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Schoolbus56
Senior Member
United States
128 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 12:47:15 PM
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quote:
From now on I pledge to do everything I can to contribute to global warming just to piss off the Environmental Freaks. Iam gonna leave my school bus idle excessively when I feel like it, Iam going to burn all the gardage I can as I always have, I already have 2 pickup trucks with the catalytic converters removed in which I shall drive more often now and finally I will burn all my old farm tires rather than recycle them.
Gee I dont see that helping anything... I hope the EPA is watching you... And ill laugh at you when you whine that the fined you for being a pompas * * * |
wow. |
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IC
Top Member
USA
3413 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 7:27:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich
....And yes, I'm sorry I got this blog from the mainstream media, not Faux News. Always amazes me at how the bleeding heart conservatives say Fox is so fair and balanced, yet it has the most conservative slant out there. CNN is far more fair, MSNBC is tilted liberal.
I totally agree with you there, Richard, Fox News is ridiculous.
They were tipped to Senator Ensign's affair, but sat on the story for days...if he was a Dem, they'd have jumped on it in a nanosecond.
Even more dishonest was Fox putting (D-SC) after Governor Sanford's name when his affair surfaced. No way that was a mistake! Now millions of their puppets (good one, Rich!) think Sanford is a Democrat, instead of the lifelong Republican he is. I guess they know their audience.
About C4C...after all the billons we've wasted on AIG, Citi, etc....3 billion is chump change. And it's the first money that is making it into some ordinary Americans' pockets. I'm all for it. |
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mrwaibel
Senior Member
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 10:34:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich
quote:
Originally posted by Steven A.Rosenow
quote:
Originally posted by Rich
What the HELL is wrong with putting more environmentally friendly vehicles on the road? Are you ****ing kidding me? I can't believe what I'm hearing, I wouldn't even expect this at a backwoods conservative circle jerk.
I know you're pissed at crushing "good" cars, but are you really opposed to helping the environment?
For one, the "global warming" phrase and ideology behind it is a farce.
It has been scientifically proven through studies of Antarctic ice that this planet has gone through hotter heating cycles, as well as cooler ones.
There is NO, I REPEAT NO SOUND, INDEPENDENT scientific studies that prove that there is a such thing as human-caused global warming. The studies that tout global warming as "tehOMG teh WORLD WIL DIEZ!!!11!!!" thing we should be gravely worried about are those that are backed by environmentalist whackjob special interest groups whop would rather see us live they do, drive like they do.
Don't get me wrong, I recycle as much as possible, but doing this in the name of "helping the environment" is a farce if I've ever heard of.
Ever study science, Richard?
The Mt. St. Helens eruptive cycle in 1980 put more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than this entire country has put out in 100 years. Pinatubo in 1991? Put out 150 times the amount St. Helens did.
The Kuwait Oil Fires in 1991 during the Gulf war? It would take every semi truck, bus, and truck running NONSTOP for 350 YEARS to equal the pollution that those Kuwait fires put out in the few months they burned.
Also, ya ever figure out that maybe climate change is happening, because, climate DOES CHANGE? I mean, seriously.
But then, I guess some people believe "The year without a summer" in 1816 wasn't because of low solar activity and the eruption of Mount Tambora the year prior.
I don't doubt that the earth has natural climate cycle, that is obvious. The thing that is alarming is how quickly this cycle has come on. And through tests on many glaciers, there is proof that the world has not been this warm for thousands of years.
Could we at least agree that humans are at least accelerating the climate change?
I still dont see what is so bad about doing anything we can to improve our air. Hybrids will eventually be standard fare in our lifetimes, whether you like it or not. Our gas cars will be a thing of the past, replaced with electric motors that will eventually be just as fast and way more efficient than what we are using now.
And listen, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, or a "tree hugger". I consider myself very independent, and I want to see the environment improve. I can't stand people who insist on proving a point by purposely running bombs and doing other bull**** like Mr. Waibel. How the hell is that patriotic? Only point you're proving is that you're a short sighted moron.
Alright Rich maybe I got a little carried away, the part about burning tires was Bulls**t but make no mistake about it I am not willing to do anything anything an environmental knucklehead says will foil global warming. What the Hell happened to a free country and the right to pursue happiness Iam happy driving my old 20 year old 18-20 MPG pickup truck without a converter it gets an extra 2 mpg without the exhaust restriction and no it dosen't blow out a bunch of smoke like your probably imagining and it still has a muffler so its still fairly quiet. As for the cars program its just teaching the younger generation to be wasteful and spend money you don't have. I just seen a youtube video earlier where a kid was purposely tearing up his vehicle SUV because he was later going to trade it as a clunker for $4,000. Its rediculous how some people are so stupid they let the government to manage their money and control every aspect of their lives and thats not freedom at all thats the liberal big government control democrat way of redistributing the wealth and taking control of health care at the expense of the taxpayers. |
Edited by - mrwaibel on 08/08/2009 10:46:44 PM |
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2009 : 12:14:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich
I don't doubt that the earth has natural climate cycle, that is obvious. The thing that is alarming is how quickly this cycle has come on. And through tests on many glaciers, there is proof that the world has not been this warm for thousands of years.
Could we at least agree that humans are at least accelerating the climate change?
I still dont see what is so bad about doing anything we can to improve our air. Hybrids will eventually be standard fare in our lifetimes, whether you like it or not. Our gas cars will be a thing of the past, replaced with electric motors that will eventually be just as fast and way more efficient than what we are using now.
And listen, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, or a "tree hugger". I consider myself very independent, and I want to see the environment improve. I can't stand people who insist on proving a point by purposely running bombs and doing other bull**** like Mr. Waibel. How the hell is that patriotic? Only point you're proving is that you're a short sighted moron.
Ever figure to realize that this planet has been far more volcanically active in the last two centuries, then in the last millenia?
Letsee here, we had Krakatoa in 1882. Mt. Tambora in 1815 (of course, that cooled the planet, then it went through a warmer than mormal period for a time afterwards), Lassen went off in California for five years starting in 1914, Mt. St. Helens in 1980 (and its subsequent eruptions from 1980-1986, and its recent 2004-2008 activity). Kilauea's been erupting almost NONSTOP since 1982. Volcanoes in Alaska have been constantly going off (Redoubt in 1991 and recently, as well as Mt. Augustine, etc). Katmai's Novarupta eruption in 1912.
Then you have Pinatubo in 1991, and then the list goes on.
Each of those events have pumped more sulfuric aerosols and greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than humanity has released in history.
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http://www.gilligcoaches.net |
Edited by - Steven A.Rosenow on 08/09/2009 12:34:27 AM |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2009 : 07:17:48 AM
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All the environmental talking put aside, I just want to express the concern I have about the bottom line of this program.
Is anyone else concerned that this cash for clunkers is jumpstarting people into buying new cars that they had planned to purchase next year? The year after? The following year? Will this sudden increase in purchasing cause an equally as suddeny decrease in purchasing for the next 2 or 3 years? Could this abrupt decrease spell the end for already struggling US automakers?
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Schoolbus56
Senior Member
United States
128 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2009 : 1:54:08 PM
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| Actally in a few months you will see people with thier cars in the repo yard. |
wow. |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2009 : 3:22:43 PM
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Interesting to note that used vehicle prices are on the rise.
Which must mean it's perfectly acceptable, AGAIN, for a LOW-INCOME individual to once again be kept from owning a decent vehicle they might need to sustain themselves (or use for their livelihood) all because of the ridiculous notion an older car with slightly less fuel economy has to be scrapped (and as a result, force used car prices up).
I've said it before, and I've said it again. This program is a farce.
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http://www.gilligcoaches.net |
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mrwaibel
Senior Member
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2009 : 8:34:31 PM
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This is what really bothers me right here is a truck better than I own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE1nXPqoMZo&feature=related The sight of that beautiful classic Chevy pick up going into the dumpster and hearing those words Strappin it up for the crane, strappin it up for the crane comming out of the sales mans mouth has been the last thing that goes through my mind before I go to sleep. Iam sure glad Town and Country Ford left their phone number because Iam gonna give em a call tomorrow and tell them how crazy they really are. The CARS program is by far the worst program the government has ever came up with. Its a big FU for people who can't afford a new car and college students who would otherwise take advantage of a good deal on a cheap car or truck like this. The worst part about it is that their tax dollars are actually working against them. Shame On anyone who patronizes the Cash For Clunkers program, Its tainted money. I hope they all end up in the repo lots and they have to pay premium price for a good used car again. |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2009 : 9:17:41 PM
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| There are still plenty of used cars, just the ones that get 18 MPG or less is put in this program. As the above link I posted states, many people go into the showrooms thinking their car is a clunker, but it may get more than the 18 MPG combined. This car can now be sold to the folks looking for a cheap ride, and the dealer makes a sale without government assistance. Win, win. |
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
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Steven A.Rosenow
Top Member
USA
1926 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2009 : 11:25:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by NWCROWN
quote:
Originally posted by Tatum
Good thing they aren't doing the same with buses!
I hate GM even more! First the EV-1 (Electric Car) scandal, and now this?
This is a very stupid program. I'm glad I drive a foreign car (2001 Honda Accord).
They ARE doing the same with buses:
http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19012&SearchTerms=Will,Washington,follow,California's,lead?
Washington has quietly started a similar program to California, Longview lost three Crowns to the program this year.
As for Cash for Clunkers, I am hearing conflicting information as to what happens to the old vehicles. Some say anything but the engine can be parted out, some say the entire vehicle must be scrapped and no parting out of anything is permitted.
I do not agree with destroying perfectly good vehicles for the reasons in this program. I will not be trading in my high mileage but paid for vehicles. This program has changed my opinion of our new president who I no longer support.
I am *thisclose* to sharing that same sentiment based on CFC alone. |
http://www.gilligcoaches.net |
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 06:29:04 AM
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Whether you all want to agree or not, right now, our nation's hot topic is "save the environment". Whether you believe or disbelieve in global warming, pro-global warming propaganda is all over the place. This CFC program is another part of it. You can support it or not. But, it seems a few here are fixated on a Mustang with 30K that was traded in. Well, as much as that IS a travesty, that's just one car out of tens of thousands. Most of the cars being traded in are older SUVs and older pickups.
The United States is one of the top consumers of fossil fuels in the world. We have more cars than most countries combined. The initial aim of the program, setting aside where the money is coming from and regardless what kind of car is being traded in, the point was to get a 12-14 mpg gas pig off the road, all materials recycled, and get that person into a more fuel efficient car. I may not be an environmentalist by any means, nor an Obama supporter, but in theory, how can you argue that logic?
Just because someone trades in a Mustang with 30K on the odometer doesn’t mean the program is a failure. How many people b#tched and complained about gas prices? Look up supply demand theory. As there is a greater demand for fuel and the supply is threatened, gas prices soar. If there’s less of a demand, meaning we’re consuming less fuel, there’s an abundance of supply and prices drop. Again, win win for everyone.
Plus, you’re also getting more consumers into dealerships that are otherwise bleeding in debt. And because of all the “issues” with consumer lending we’ve had in the past, banks aren’t as willing to lend large sums of money, and are looking much closer into income to debt ratios. This means someone making a $30K per year salary will probably have a hard time getting into a new bimmer. People are buying small, relatively inexpensive fuel efficient cars. So I doubt you’ll see a lot of repos.
TOP 10 VEHICLES SOLD IN CFC PROGRAM
1. Ford Focus
2. Toyota Corolla
3. Honda Civic
4. Toyota Prius
5. Toyota Camry
6. Ford Escape
7. Hyundai Elantra
8. Dodge Caliber
9. Honda Fit
10. Chevy Cobalt
“While critics had feared that car shoppers would use the program mostly to buy trucks, in fact 83% of the vehicles traded in have been trucks and SUVs while 60% of vehicles purchased were passenger cars, according to Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood.” (money.cnn.com)
Finally - complaining about the interior appointments on a Prius is more subjective than anything, and in my opinion, has no relevance on the CFC debate. Some people love it. Some people don't. ALL car companies are using cheaper materials to cut manufacturing costs. Mass producing a car as efficiently and as cost effectively as possible is the golden rule of manufacturing plants.
And though I may be persuaded that the bill should be aimed at American car companies, they've already been bailed out and unfortunately, there is little consumer confidence in their product. Whether you like it or not, Toyota and Honda have built an unbreakable "reliability" reputation that Ford, Chrysler and GM are lightyears away from. Consumer trends have shifted from the fastest, highest horsepower vehicles to the most fuel efficient, cost effective and most reliable cars.
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Edited by - Lords47 on 08/11/2009 08:53:36 AM |
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mrwaibel
Senior Member
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 08:18:10 AM
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| Some people just can't see that this is an example of extreme liberal wasteful spending at its best. The fact that most of the vehicles that are being destroyed are pickup trucks makes it even worse because its the 2 wheel drive regular cab trucks that are getting destroyed that get 18-22 highway miles per gallon. No one in their right state of mind would trade in a 4X4 for CFC because their useually worth about $1,200 more than a 2 wheel drive. But all this set aside its a waste of tax payers money, its government manipulation of the used car market, it hurts charity organizations that would otherwise recieve some of these cars as donations, and it encourages people to make irresponsible financial decisions by encouraging them to buy a new car weather they can afford it or not. |
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mrwaibel
Senior Member
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 08:42:46 AM
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| Stop the hand outs I have 2 vehicles that qualify for the CARS program but I don't want the money and I don't want anyone else using my tax dollars to buy new cars. I also don't want my tax dollars going to destroy good used vehicles that I might purchase some day.http://www.polladium.com/poll_results.php?poll_id=220&location_id=1 watch this video it explains to better. |
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Topic |
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Cash for Clunkers
