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news
Top Member
Canada
2951 Posts |
 Posted - 02/07/2008 : 08:41:01 AM
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February 6, 2008 - WNEP-TV, PA
Dallas, PA - From now on, bus drivers will have a check list to fill out every morning and afternoon, making sure no one is on the bus. They won't be paid without turning in those sheets. The school also now has a 24-hour emergency hotline.
full story
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NathanW
Advanced Member
United States
313 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 10:26:25 AM
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| Well that's just stupid. If the drivers didn't check the bus before why would having a piece of paper change it? All they have to do is fill out the checklist and not check the bus. *sigh* More stupid policies. |
Nathan--Driver Extraordinaire |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 6:35:26 PM
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I agree with you. Until we get the type of driver willing to actually check for sleeping children, nothing is going to matter. But this talk about missed steps, no one is perfect and it could happen to anybody, are lame excuses that also do nothing to solve the problem. What this will do, however, is provide the district with a paper trail document that they can use to build a case against the driver. Every DVCR I have ever seen had a box to be checked that there had been a sleeper check and now the ZONAR units.
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William |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 7:16:42 PM
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| Putting everything aside, no one is perfect and anything can happen to anyone. |
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 06:21:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 80-RE4
Putting everything aside, no one is perfect and anything can happen to anyone
Maybe true - but there's no solution presented in your thought. Something happens, than what? Who takes responsibility? The idea is how to prevent these incidences from occurring. We've seen gadgets and signs, stickers, having an independent source check the bus. But in the end, it still inevitably still falls on the lap of the driver. Did they check their bus or not? These child check "reminders" don't do the check for us. It still involves a proactive driver. It doesn't take a perfect driver to do so - just one that is involved in their job and accepts their responsibility.
If a truly honest mistake is made (because I do believe that there could be dire situations that would rush a driver out before completing their job), address it appropriately. But the frustrations we've read on these news story forums is that drivers are just being negligent - getting caught - then lying to attempt to cover their tracks in fear of losing their job.
So, 80-RE4, I do believe it’s a little more than just “no one is perfect”. |
Edited by - Lords47 on 02/08/2008 06:23:23 AM |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 10:01:42 AM
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Yes you are right, no one is perfect but me.
Ok, now that we all agree (joking).
I just don't understand how any driver can, as a daily routine, park their bus and walk out of it without checking it for sleeping children?
What will stop that?
Having the bus checked by another person?
Having signs?
Having whisles?
Having a camera follow us?
Having the doors seal shut?
Well I have no answers but for some to get off their lazy tushes and check. |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 10:10:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 80-RE4
Putting everything aside, no one is perfect and anything can happen to anyone.
Myself believe I understand the context in what you presented in the above quote and perhaps been better to have left it at that. Would not expect you to present a solution to cover the impossible dream of some here. How easy would it be to manage a fleet of perfect bus drivers. Would hardly be any need for managers - which should be obvious. It is our imperfection in both management and the help that must be acknowledged and the issues covered for the benefit of all. The best fleets in my opinion cultivate happy school bus drivers and managers that work hard together, interdependently, to innovate and support each other in making happen safe, calm environments for children and hostile-free workplaces for their school bus drivers. This is where the best performance begins from the most in management and also the help. And not doing so is where the door to indecency toward one another is opened to indifference, scapegoating and flogging the bus drivers when something goes amiss in my opinion. (jk)
SuccessFactors [a California software company] has you sign a statement saying you won't be an a**hole, and they fire you if you are. ~ Story, 'Beating back the office bully' Click Here for full story Featured on Page Three (scroll down to story).
“Happy companies will win. Happy companies will grow and happy companies will innovate. The company of the future is—happy.” ~ Lars Kolind, Chairman of Grundfos
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
Edited by - JK on 02/08/2008 10:14:37 AM |
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 10:27:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JK
Would not expect you to present a solution to cover the impossible dream of some here.
Ahh... but he did:
quote:
Originally posted by 80-RE4
Well I have no answers but for some to get off their lazy tushes and check.
Seems like a pretty effective solution to me. Nuff said.
quote:
Originally posted by JK
The best fleets in my opinion cultivate happy school bus drivers and managers that work hard together, interdependently, to innovate and support each other in making happen safe, calm environments for children and hostile-free workplaces for their school bus drivers.
Sounds like an.... IMPOSSIBLE DREAM to me. And if I read your post correctly, such perfection doesn't exist. Seems we're both reaching for something that is not there than, huh? |
Edited by - Lords47 on 02/08/2008 10:38:09 AM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 10:41:05 AM
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''Ahh... but he did:''
Ya, that's working great. Covers protecting the child when the bus driver fails to perform the procedure correctly all right. Perhaps this issue will now fade into history. Our skill to blame has exceeded our skill to perform. (jk)
"The Pupil Transportation Safety Institute say 5 thousand kids a year are left on buses."
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 10:46:09 AM
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| Didn't saw you needed to LIKE the solution. Just pointing out a solution he DID present, which is tacit knowledge for the majority of us. Works for you and I right? Nothing extraordinary about us that would prevent others from accomplishing the same task. |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 10:46:41 AM
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''Sounds like an.... IMPOSSIBLE DREAM to me. And if I read your post correctly, such perfection doesn't exist. Seems we're both reaching for something that is not there than, huh?''
Apparently at some facilities what you say is accurate enough. (jk)
The functional employer hires school bus drivers - The dysfunctional employer hires scapegoats.
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 10:55:34 AM
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''Didn't saw you needed to LIKE the solution. Just pointing out a solution he DID present, which is tacit knowledge for the majority of us.''
Well than my apologies. And protecting the child when the bus driver fails to correctly perform the check? I suggest an interdependent remedy some facilities use and where protecting the child certainly seems their top priority in this mater. Make sure that bus is checked in addition to the driver and monitor. (jk)
"The Pupil Transportation Safety Institute say 5 thousand kids a year are left on buses."
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 12:03:12 PM
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Of course we can't hold the driver accountable without "scapegoating" or flogging him or her. There has never been at any time when anyone at any time and anywhere has advocated perfection in drivers or anything else. Even the most stubborn among us will realize that no one is perfect.
When did we come to the point that expecting someone to do the job they're responsible to do equated to a demand or an expectation of perfection? By that reasoning, Jack the Ripper, Theodore Bundy, Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Edward Gein and other madmen of history can be forgiven because... nobody is perfect.
I feel that I shouldn't have to say this, but I'm not in any way saying that school bus drivers should be placed in the same category or company as these individuals, but the effect is the same. If I gamble for matchsticks, why greater the sin if I play for gold?
Management is always responsible for the overall functioning of the organization but individual accountability can never be discounted. |
William |
Edited by - william on 02/08/2008 12:04:39 PM |
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 2:38:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by William
Management is always responsible for the overall functioning of the organization but individual accountability can never be discounted.
William, I could NOT have said it any better if I tried. Well done. |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 6:13:42 PM
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| Thank you Ryan. In the words of Andy Griffith... I 'preciate it. |
William |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 6:54:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by william
... Management is always responsible for the overall functioning of the organization but individual accountability can never be discounted.
Very well stated, and of course includes individual accountability of managers to make sure their bus drivers are doing what they are supposed to be doing, not just reacting after the fact. First management, then the help. This sidebar has gone circular yet again, having no real point other than a few to annoy each other while the rest of the forum members have to sort on by for any remaining content. We ought to take some individual responsibility for that as well. (jk)
“Happy companies will win. Happy companies will grow and happy companies will innovate. The company of the future is—happy.” ~ Lars Kolind, Chairman of Grundfos
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
Edited by - JK on 02/08/2008 6:56:21 PM |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 11:27:58 PM
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| Actually, James, it seems to me that the content changed with your post of 02/08/2008. Prior to that, we were all talking about the same thing... leaving a child on the bus. |
William |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 12:06:14 AM
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Don't recall excusing myself, even if the forum member that actually started the sidebar. Regardless of how a sidebar starts does not excuse each person involved from taking individual responsibility for his or her part when the sidebar becomes useless. And so yet another useless circular argument clutters this thread. (jk)
SuccessFactors [a California software company] has you sign a statement saying you won't be an a**hole, and they fire you if you are. ~ Story, 'Beating back the office bully' Click Here for full story Featured on Page Three (scroll down to story).
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Edited by - JK on 02/09/2008 11:37:52 AM |
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coolbusdriver
Top Member
Canada
1509 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 06:27:44 AM
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At least here they are willing to work with the driver to make things better rather than the standard "FIRE HIM!!"
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 10:10:25 AM
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Why is it James that it is almost always you, yourself, that start these "useless sidebars", and then complain about them being "circular", "useless" and such? You want to avoid them, then try staying on the topic under discussion.
It seems to me that the forum administrators would address this if they saw it to be a problem. I did not realize until you started complaining that any topic we were discussing was closed to ancillary or other pertinent discussion.
Anyway, who are you to decide whether or not something of interest to other forum members is useless? You don't need to participate in these sidebars, but if I feel that something is pertinent but a bit off the main topic, I will address it, same as you do.
After all, we are not a meeting of the National Security Acency, a presidential cabinet meeting or such. We are school bus drivers, most of us expressing opinions or reacting to an opinion. If the discussion is sometimes heated, we also are not a meeting of the Southern/Northern Association of City and Country Preachers, or the Canadian and American Ladies and Gentlemen Committee of the Universe. You have your own thread James, but not the forum... at least not yet.
Have a nice day, and don't forget church tomorrow, James. |
William |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 11:18:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by coolbusdriver
At least here they are willing to work with the driver to make things better rather than the standard "FIRE HIM!!"
Thank you, coolbusdriver. The best way to interrupt a circular annoyance in a sidebar is for the welbehaved to make themselves visible with content.
From the story: Connor's mother said he walked about a half mile to the school where a custodian discovered him.
Because of what happened Monday Dallas school policy has changed.
From now on, bus drivers will have a check list to fill out every morning and afternoon, making sure no one is on the bus. They won't be paid without turning in those sheets. The school also now has a 24-hour emergency hotline.
"We will have a first responder available on that cell phone number on a regular basis," Galicki added.
Rachelle Markham said she's thankful the school is making those changes and she's grateful her son is safe and sound.
"I just try not to think about the what-ifs. What if the school was closed? What if he got hit on the road? He was really in danger," Markham added.
The Dallas emergency number that goes into effect Thursday is 570-855-2993.
Galicki added this is the first time in his 35 years in the district that a child has been left on a bus and he said it will be the last.
Conner has returned to school and is back on the bus.
We can read the thankfulness in the parent's comments, which also lacks an interest to make further harm.
The checklist if I understand it, is helpful. Made one myself that when the child boards each day a slash is placed in the box, and when departing make another to form an 'X'
The interdependent addition of an emergency number is excellent in my opinion.
I do wish that administrators/managers would stop with the false guarantees. Fact is the risk remains and that needs to be offset with staff and parents working together with awareness to help contain these events. What is that official, or next official to say were the event to happen again in the future? These sorts set the stage for rage.
The child leaving the bus always bothers me because the risk escalates at that point. Securing the bus after each run would maintain minimal risk within the bus. It would also encourage the driver to walk the bus to secure the back door/window. On hotter days some side windows or roof hatches could be left open. A secure bus can be spot-checked for violations after runs on occasion.
This anomaly I believe has been with us since shortly after school buses came into regular use, a very rare risk of injury is evidenced in the statistics but remains a risk. Working together interdependently helps greatly reduce the risk but does not eliminate it.
It amazes me that this one issue trumps so many much more dangerous issues concerning the buses. A recent story presented that a child left the bus at his designated bus stop and wondered off. There was no outcry to hang the parent, make a criminal charge and remove the parent from parenting, which I agree would have been most outrageous in most cases. Click Here for source
A child left sleeping on the buses is a risk, of course, but more so seems a political outrage these days along with a launch-point that is increasingly expanding to other areas of operation and the bank.
I'm glad to see again that the child is fully recovered and back on the bus - a clear example of people working together to restore rather than destroy. I'm thankful for the excellent civility presented in the story. Sounds to me like a functional facility that was graced with a concerned parent out to help correct a flawed system rather than go nuts and cause even more harm to the child and this industry.
That's my opinion - am not demanding agreement or another nonsense sidebar attacking members and cluttering up this thread. (jk)
“Happy companies will win. Happy companies will grow and happy companies will innovate. The company of the future is—happy.” ~ Lars Kolind, Chairman of Grundfos
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
Edited by - JK on 02/09/2008 1:16:12 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 12:38:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by william
Why is it James that it is almost always you, yourself, that start these "useless sidebars", and then complain about them being "circular", "useless" and such? You want to avoid them, then try staying on the topic under discussion.
It seems to me that the forum administrators would address this if they saw it to be a problem. I did not realize until you started complaining that any topic we were discussing was closed to ancillary or other pertinent discussion.
Anyway, who are you to decide whether or not something of interest to other forum members is useless? You don't need to participate in these sidebars, but if I feel that something is pertinent but a bit off the main topic, I will address it, same as you do.
And circular yet again - James, James, James. Look in the mirror, William (I do believe 'William' is respectfully your forum name).
The next paragraph, although excellent, applies to the messenger as well, and yet again circular.
I believe that readers hate this nonsense, the persistent personalized attacks directed at any forum mender could certainly and appropriately bring authority to respond – You give me that authority to respond. To find out how that works visit the content in the Hostile Workplace Thread.
Myself, deny no responsibility for my part in sidebars or otherwise. Who accepts responsibility depends on who wants to practice acting like a real leader. There is some fashion of responsibility available for any to act with authority, from the least to the greatest members in this forum.
This is a professional forum where my belief is that we try to argue the merits or lack of in the message, not attack the messenger or annoying the readers with circular arguments. Acting out with personalized ‘James, James, James’ is obvious to most. Acting out in kind to a point, then the revealing and how that can somehow relate to the school bus environment and/or workplace. So obvious that it would be a waste of time to just focus on personalizing a retort to one person. Myself would rather make use of the manure to help grow the garden.
Stick to the message, including within the context of any sidebar message. We can all then expect a better discussion. When that is not happening, then context presented from the welbehaved making themselves visible with a post concerning a thread's main story can help break the cycle. On my bus the welbehaved likewise do just that.
What a great help it is to their bus driver when the welbehaved students are cultivated to become visible and stay visible. (jk)
SuccessFactors [a California software company] has you sign a statement saying you won't be an a**hole, and they fire you if you are. ~ Story, 'Beating back the office bully' Click Here for full story Featured on Page Three (scroll down to story).
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
Edited by - JK on 02/09/2008 1:05:23 PM |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 3:13:22 PM
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| Thanks for your response, James. William is my real name, not just a forum name. |
William |
Edited by - william on 02/09/2008 8:13:40 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 01:17:45 AM
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Have a nice day, William. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 3:51:16 PM
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| Funny, this looks like the same argument from last year. I don't think we've gotten very far. |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 6:31:10 PM
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| The argument is over, Thomas Ford. |
William |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 6:37:50 PM
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| I wonder if these little sheets will create a distraction? I have a wonderful idea and I'm going to call a company to have it Copywrited so none of you can steal it. Have a microphone in the back of the bus, the driver has a code and has to enter it and radio when the bus is empty! |
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PA: Policies Change after Boy is Left on SB
