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bluebirdvision
Top Member
USA
1081 Posts |
 Posted - 07/16/2007 : 3:25:30 PM
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Has anybody been able to drive a bus with one of the MAXXFORCE engines in it? What was your impression of it. Is the MAXXFORCE 7 any better sounding than the VT-365? Any feedback would be apprechiated.
Thanks,
bluebirdvision |
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 5:01:25 PM
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Haven't driven one, but I did start a Maxxforce 7. They seem to idle just like the VT365s, but they don't sound as "cranky" when the engine is turning over.
Also, I noticed the pointers on the gauges of the updated dashboard do not do the "swing dance" (self-test) like they used to. I'll miss that. |
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Kodie
Top Member
United States
2028 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 2:38:48 PM
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Our newer buses have that engine, I have not driven either. I dont know what the VT-365 sounds like but the Maxx Force compared to the T444E engine is very quiet. The T444E sounds like a jet taking off, I love that. The Maxx Force sounds similare to an older model jeep cherokee sort of. Its not as loud but it is much more powerful also. Also as for sound, when the Maxx Force idles, it sounds like an air leak almost, like a constant stream of air.
This is a wee bit off topic but, I dont know if anybody noticed but no matter what engine is in an IC, it has great pick up, does anybody know why? Blue Birds have awful pickup. |
Edited by - Kodie on 07/18/2007 2:39:46 PM |
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bluebirdvision
Top Member
USA
1081 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 4:17:13 PM
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IC DAVE,
My Blue Bird Vision (C-7) and the older Blue Bird Internationals (T-444-E, one DT-466) have great pick-up, When comparing a buses pick-up I learned it important to know the specs of the vehicle, they must be comparable to make a true assesment. The Blue Birds you have ridden may have a lower horsepower engine or different rear end set-up than the ICs you have ridden. Thanks for your input. |
Facebook Page: Blue Bird Corporation Fans
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_212311114614&ap=1
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Edited by - bluebirdvision on 07/18/2007 4:18:01 PM |
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Kodie
Top Member
United States
2028 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 4:19:17 PM
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| hmmm... you must be right. Thanks. |
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disp29
Advanced Member
United States
202 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 01:37:07 AM
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| I don't know what International buses you are riding/driving that have a T444E engine with great take off (I didn't think one existed)... all of our T444E's SUCK... except for the one that's in Bus 34/33 ('02 BB IHC 3800). Us drivers know as a rule that if we want/need a bus with power to take one of the DT466E's or (as much as I hate to admit it) one of the Freightliners. Maybe it's just us, but I know the first bus I ever drove (1998 AmTran IHC 3800) had really, REALLY sucky take-off, too... and that had a T444E as well. Doesn't matter what the weather is either.... I'm Lost! |
kEvIn
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School Bus 7
Senior Member
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 07:07:39 AM
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| My Bus had a DT466E and it would run but it wouldnt out run a BB AA RE with a CAT C7. It all matters on Horsepower. |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 1:47:50 PM
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| Also, keep in mind the transmission. There might have been other variables, but I've driven quite a few T444Es, and I noticed a huge boost in low-end power going from the AT545 to the 2000 series. |
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Kodie
Top Member
United States
2028 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 2:19:56 PM
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| All of our T444E's are turbo charged, and they have great pickup, you can get up to 45 mph from 0 in 10 feet or so. Our BB buses all except the 05' have horrible pick-up but they are also older |
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Cody
Top Member
United States
1630 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 2:32:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IC Kodie
All of our T444E's are turbo charged, and they have great pickup, you can get up to 45 mph from 0 in 10 feet or so.
Dang I can't even do that in my truck |
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bus724
Top Member
USA
1609 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 2:33:20 PM
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| 0 to 45 in 10 feet? Wow, I want that for my run! |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 2:48:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IC Kodie
All of our T444E's are turbo charged, and they have great pickup, you can get up to 45 mph from 0 in 10 feet or so.
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Edited by - Rich on 07/20/2007 2:49:13 PM |
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School Bus 7
Senior Member
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 4:26:58 PM
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| Hmmm is that Bull crap im smelling? I Think it IS! |
Edited by - School Bus 7 on 07/20/2007 4:29:40 PM |
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disp29
Advanced Member
United States
202 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 11:48:33 AM
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45 MPH in 0 to 10 feet... I think somebody's waiting for Santa Claus.
You're very right, Phil. Our '02 IHC/BB is the only T444E with the Allison 2000 series transmission, and it has tremendous take-off over the '98s and '97s we have that only have the AT545... or whatever tranny they have. Me personally... I still like the DT466E... don't matter what it's in... even our two old spares that have the old DT466 motor... I'll take them over the DTA360 anyday! |
kEvIn
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jjf221fe
Advanced Member
United States
275 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 12:05:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IC Kodie
Our newer buses have that engine, I have not driven either. I dont know what the VT-365 sounds like but the Maxx Force compared to the T444E engine is very quiet. The T444E sounds like a jet taking off, I love that. The Maxx Force sounds similare to an older model jeep cherokee sort of. Its not as loud but it is much more powerful also. Also as for sound, when the Maxx Force idles, it sounds like an air leak almost, like a constant stream of air.
This is a wee bit off topic but, I dont know if anybody noticed but no matter what engine is in an IC, it has great pick up, does anybody know why? Blue Birds have awful pickup.
Something I have noticed is that my school's IC-CE 300s have a very distinct sound when accelerating. My late bus is an IC-CE 300, and when ever my driver pushes down on the accelerator pedal (I refuse to call them "Gas pedals" as the bus runs on diesel) the bus makes a "tssssssss" noise and then takes off... NO THIS IS NOT AIR RELEASING FROM THE PARKING BRAKE... It does this when she is stopped at a stop sign, intersection, whatever, but it does not occur when she releases the parking brake or brake pedal for that matter. Any ideas as to whit it might be? |
What is this "Hydraulic Brakes" nonsense you speak of? |
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Rich
Top Member
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 2:39:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jjf221fe
quote:
Originally posted by IC Kodie
Our newer buses have that engine, I have not driven either. I dont know what the VT-365 sounds like but the Maxx Force compared to the T444E engine is very quiet. The T444E sounds like a jet taking off, I love that. The Maxx Force sounds similare to an older model jeep cherokee sort of. Its not as loud but it is much more powerful also. Also as for sound, when the Maxx Force idles, it sounds like an air leak almost, like a constant stream of air.
This is a wee bit off topic but, I dont know if anybody noticed but no matter what engine is in an IC, it has great pick up, does anybody know why? Blue Birds have awful pickup.
Something I have noticed is that my school's IC-CE 300s have a very distinct sound when accelerating. My late bus is an IC-CE 300, and when ever my driver pushes down on the accelerator pedal (I refuse to call them "Gas pedals" as the bus runs on diesel) the bus makes a "tssssssss" noise and then takes off... NO THIS IS NOT AIR RELEASING FROM THE PARKING BRAKE... It does this when she is stopped at a stop sign, intersection, whatever, but it does not occur when she releases the parking brake or brake pedal for that matter. Any ideas as to whit it might be?
It's a turbo. Every diesel found in buses right now has a turbo, some are louder than others. |
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jjf221fe
Advanced Member
United States
275 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 3:51:22 PM
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| I always thought turbos had a "scream" to them, not a "tssss". Can the sounds vary? |
What is this "Hydraulic Brakes" nonsense you speak of? |
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78fordwayne
Top Member
USA
2868 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 4:38:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jjf221fe
I always thought turbos had a "scream" to them, not a "tssss". Can the sounds vary?
Oh yes. There are different makers of turbos and diferent sizes that dont all sound the same |
Robert B.
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03CV200
Top Member
United States
740 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 5:47:33 PM
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The bus I rode in high school (2001 BB Chevy with a Cat 3126), had a turbo that hisses loudly. I've never heard another vehicle like it. (It sounded awesome ) |
-Dave |
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IC
Top Member
USA
3413 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 6:50:58 PM
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Turbos are for sissy motors!
The pair of 1968 Detroit 8V-71Ns (the "N" is for naturally aspirated!) in my boat don't tsssssss or whine or nuthin....they just push 40+ tons of mahogany through the water just pretty as you please!
Cruising speed 18 knots at an effortless 2300 rpm....top speed, 21-22 knots@2800 rpm. The Detroits swing 30"X30" props through 2.5:1 Twin Disc trannies. (Judson synchronized, of course!)
Sorry about the non-sb post...I just had to brag on my NON-turbo* Detroits bumble-bees! LOL
*obviously, as two-strokers, they do have blowers....just not turbos! |
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Buskid
Top Member
USA
3368 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 7:00:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IC
Sorry about the non-sb post...I just had to brag on my NON-turbo* Detroits bumble-bees! LOL
I still hear the ringing in my ears after driving the one Fire Truck with the 6V53 Detroit Diesel for an hour and a half last weekend. |
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IC
Top Member
USA
3413 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 7:22:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Buskid
quote:
Originally posted by IC
Sorry about the non-sb post...I just had to brag on my NON-turbo* Detroits bumble-bees! LOL
I still hear the ringing in my ears after driving the one Fire Truck with the 6V53 Detroit Diesel for an hour and a half last weekend.
I can imagine!
Of course, in most marine applications you have "wet" exhaust....and the bumble-bees are 1 or 2 decks below you...but you can still hear and feel 'em! |
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LBDboater
Advanced Member
USA
279 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 8:41:42 PM
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| As a true mariner at heart, and fellow boater, I can attest to the greatness of DD. They had that reliability and torque to move almost anything. THEY ARE LOUD AND VIBRATE, but man they'll push wood like nothing else I know of! Nothing like the feel of engaging a big beefy prop being spun by a big torque-y engine! |
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jjf221fe
Advanced Member
United States
275 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 9:20:29 PM
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| Since you mention torque, something I found to be very interesting today was that Electric motors actually punch out the greatest amount of torque as opposed to any other engine (Yes, even diesels with their ALMOST unmatched low-end torque). Many of you may have known this, but I didn't know. There are many things I still don't know, but I got all the time in the world to learn. |
What is this "Hydraulic Brakes" nonsense you speak of? |
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IC
Top Member
USA
3413 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 10:08:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by LBDboater
As a true mariner at heart, and fellow boater, I can attest to the greatness of DD. They had that reliability and torque to move almost anything. THEY ARE LOUD AND VIBRATE, but man they'll push wood like nothing else I know of! Nothing like the feel of engaging a big beefy prop being spun by a big torque-y engine!
You ain't just whistlin' Dixie there! I have a friend that hung his 46' SeaRay (pffft...I know, if God maent us to have plastic boats, He'd a made plastic trees!) up on a sand bar....and he tried to horse her off there. He BROKE THE CRANKSHAFT in his port motor (6V-92TI Detroit). That's how (real) diesels are....they DON'T stall. Something....is GOING to break, if you don't back off on it!
Great point, jjf221fe....all MEGA machines are powered by electric motors....ships, locomotives, the bigger cranes and earthmover trucks, etc. There's many ways they generate the electricity they need to operate, including diesel, steam, and nuclear...but it's an electric motor that actually turns the props or the wheels or whatever. And no tranny is necessary...they're usually hooked up direct! |
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BusFreak
Top Member
USA
798 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 10:21:50 PM
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| That hissing noise on the IC CE-300 is the rear air bags hissing as the bus accelerates. The International air-ride suspension has been making this noise for a few years now, and it is very noticable with the pitch of the 466. |
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Nick
Advanced Member
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 11:06:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IC
Great point, jjf221fe....all MEGA machines are powered by electric motors....ships, locomotives, the bigger cranes and earthmover trucks, etc. There's many ways they generate the electricity they need to operate, including diesel, steam, and nuclear...but it's an electric motor that actually turns the props or the wheels or whatever. And no tranny is necessary...they're usually hooked up direct!
Caterpillar's big dump trucks (up to 360 tons capacity) as well as wheel loaders etc. all use a transmission, driveshaft, and differential. That sets them apart from the other companies who use diesel-electric power. Not sure why they chose to do it that way, but it seems to work for them. |
IC the future, and it is bright. |
Edited by - Nick on 07/21/2007 11:07:25 PM |
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sbfreader
Senior Member
153 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2007 : 06:27:41 AM
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quote:
all MEGA machines are powered by electric motors....ships, locomotives, the bigger cranes and earthmover trucks, etc. There's many ways they generate the electricity they need to operate, including diesel, steam, and nuclear...but it's an electric motor that actually turns the props or the wheels or whatever. And no tranny is necessary...they're usually hooked up direct!
Naval propulsion systems do not use electric motors. In the US navy, diesel direct drives are used in small and some medium sized ships. Steam turbines power many ships with high pressure steam generated and used to spin turbines that power the ships shaft. They do use reduction gears on the main shafts to slow down the speed that the shaft turns because without them the shaft would turn too fast creating cavitation. This would hamper the ships ability to move. Nuclear power is really just another way to create steam and operates similar to a conventional steam system. Albeit with the advantages of not having to refuel for a very long time. Gas turbine engines are used in the advanced Cruiser and Destroyer classes. Gas turbines are basically jet engines in a box. They are also hooked directly to the shafts with reduction gear to reduce the speed of the shaft. The advantages of gas turbine are quick stop and start with high top speed. |
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disp29
Advanced Member
United States
202 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 03:34:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Buskid
quote:
Originally posted by IC
Sorry about the non-sb post...I just had to brag on my NON-turbo* Detroits bumble-bees! LOL
I still hear the ringing in my ears after driving the one Fire Truck with the 6V53 Detroit Diesel for an hour and a half last weekend.
Oh dear God... I feel your pain, Brother. Our old Engine was a 1979 American LaFrance, refurbed from FDNY... but it had an 8V71N Detroit in it. Useless to run a siren on those trucks... then Engine is three times louder than any siren I can think of. That damn truck used to give me a headache like you wouldn't believe! |
kEvIn
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bluebirdvision
Top Member
USA
1081 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 09:54:25 AM
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I always thought that the T-444-Es in our fleet had great pick-up. I have never heard my driver complain, or other drivers for that fact. For years we had only T-444-Es in our fleet. Maybe i'm just CRAZY  I have never driven a bus which may also be a reason I think this way.
bluebirdvision |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 6:19:02 PM
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| Bluebirdvision you are not crazy. T444E engines are the best ones ever made. They sound nice too. I had three of them in my Amtran RE buses. I bet no one would notice the difference if they put a T444E in place of a Maxforce. |
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Kodie
Top Member
United States
2028 Posts |
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Jim
Top Member
USA
581 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 7:31:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IC Kodie
ah.... a thing of beauty, I wish they would bring it back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDKLmMFvDMA
I don't miss that sound at all. I'll keep my MBE that I have now. |
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IC
Top Member
USA
3413 Posts |
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Cody
Top Member
United States
1630 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 7:47:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IC
I wish my bus had a Detroit and a Road Ranger!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1YXx4kytNU
I love that video! I usually put on that video when I jump on the computer in the morning before going to work... starts the day out well |
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IC
Top Member
USA
3413 Posts |
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Topic |
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MAXXFORCE engines
