| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Spcdriver
New Member
USA
2 Posts |
 Posted - 10/20/2006 : 11:17:09 AM
|
| Our school board wants to see what it would cost to retro fit our busses with seat belts. Some feel it's safer with seat belts and others feel it's not, (me being one of them)plus, how do you make sure they are on, how do you get 3 football players to a seat and their belts on???? We are a small district, 10 trans. 4 vans. What I'm asking is, has any one else had this kind of problem?O |
|
|
John Farr
Top Member
USA
642 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 05:48:29 AM
|
| Are they thinking of 2 point lap or 3 point seat belts with shoulder restraints? Neither can be properly fastened to a school bus seat unless extensive modifications are made to both the seat frames and the floor anchorages. Some research has shown that 2 point lap belts can cause more injuries than the compartmentalization design currently in the bus, so the three point system is the way to go. The easy way to get three point system in a bus is to buy a new bus with it properly installed by the manufacturer. Before proceeding with the purchase ask them how many seats will be lost with this system. You'll find that your capacity will be significantly reduced. |
 |
|
|
JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 09:47:26 AM
|
I hate this, contridicting anything John Farr might present.
Regardless, would seem that there may be a few misconceptions concerning this issue that I believe Mr. Farr would accept is ok to go ahead and present.
Considerable misinformation has built-up over the years concerning seat belts on the big school buses, enough to confuse most anyone that has not dug deep into the issue.
There was a compromise on the engineers’ compartmentalization design, which recommended seat belts and arm rests. The final requirement was a trade association, school principals and the politicians design, not the actual engineering design.
Lobbyists convinced lawmakers not to require seat belts on all school buses, originally because of the cost, but that the buses would be made seat belt ready for those school districts wanting the safety device. Apparently the seats were not made seat belt ready, as was promoted until recent years.
Most, if not all of the discouragement concerning belts on the big school buses appear to be fallacies promoted by the industry.
Seat belts would cause more harm than good is a fallacy.
New York and New Jersey have required seat belts (including lap belts) on their school buses for decades without the type of horrific injuries resulting that the industry continues to claim would happen. Seat belts became a non-issue in both states since shortly after their requirement and installation.
There is some loss of perceived seating capacity - two belts for each seat on one side of the bus and three on the other. However, this sort of reduced capacity would only effect big buses transporting very young children.
School buses transporting larger students or a k-12 mix would not likely experience any reduction in capacity unless they have been transporting only older students on overcrowded buses. Eleven states allow upto 25% over the alleged capacity and allow students standing in the aisle.
Remember that compartmentalization is supposed to replace the need for seat belts - but compartmentalization, when it works, does so when kids are sitting within the seating compartment and as though they are wearing seat belts.
When serious injuries occur on a beltless school bus the school district is immediately vulnerable to litigation. Clever attorneys do not make the lack of seat belts the reason for the litigation but during proceedings use the lack of installation as a major cause leading to injury.
The district becomes excessively vulnerable where it can be shown that the bus driver and school did not maintain NHTSA recommended safe seating for students riding school buses without seat belts installed. Genuine effort must be demonstrated.
Another area of vulnerability is weak enforcement or poorly defined use of the safety device in written policy. Who is responsible to buckle-up -- the students or the drivers? Are the drivers required to check for compliance before departure or are students required to self-check? Is a reminder to buckle-up announced over the PA before departure? What is the policy when a student is discovered unbuckled during the route? Vague policies help assure negative litigation in the event of an injury incident.
During our twice-yearly evacuation drills seat belts are discussed in my training. Both students and school staff are present during the training. This is what I say concerning seat belts.
''Some school districts require seat belts on their school buses. New York and New Jersey are two states that require seat belts on all their school buses. Our state and this school district do not require seat belts installed. We follow the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration's safe seating recommendations for school buses not equipped with seat belts. An engineering design known as compartmentalization is supposed to replace the need for seat belts - but compartmentalization only works when kids are sitting within the seating compartment and as though they were wearing seat belts. ...'' And on to discussion concerning what sitting styles are most likely to lead to injury during a crash.
On my bus, just before departure, it is announced that the aisle must be completely clear of body limbs and property; calm voices and nothing in the mouth. It took some getting used to, both the announcement and compliance, but now these things happen quickly when the engine is started:
"The aisle is completely clear. Excellent. Please lower your voices. Now is the last opportunity to place in the trash anything in your mouth."
During the route anything discovered in a student's mouth, loudness or sitting outside NHTSA recommended seating triggers our informal enforcement process.
A much calmer and safer school bus environment is the result.
Although no seat belts are installed on our community's school buses, that reality would not be detectable when looking in from outside my school bus.
Also, before leaving the school on field trips our bus drivers stand, face the passengers and make a bus safety announcement to students, school staff and chaperons concerning behavior and sitting expectations. Don't know the exacting details because I do not take field trips upon discovering years ago how disruptive to leave the kids with a sub behind the wheel, even temporarily.
This bus driver would have no reservations what so ever concerning the installation of seat belts on my school bus. Can work effectively with or without that safety device.
I agree with John that modifying a bus to install seat belts is probably a bad idea, if it is the actual case that the school bus was not manufactured seat belt ready. Unless properly installed litigation again can become an issue at some point.
Does the law in your state allow grandfathering your fleet? If so, then John Farr's advice that to gradually replace older buses with new buses, and with the safety device factory installed, is the most effective way to go. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Hostage Takeover, bus fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
Edited by - JK on 10/22/2006 09:53:47 AM |
|
|
|
Sandra (Ennis) Nunn
Top Member
Canada
1180 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 3:33:13 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by JK
New York and New Jersey have required seat belts (including lap belts) on their school buses for decades without the type of horrific injuries resulting that the industry continues to claim would happen. Seat belts became a non-issue in both states since shortly after their requirement and installation.
JK, I just read this in the Boca Raton News:
"New York, New Jersey and Florida require new buses to have seat belts, but only New Jersey and Florida require students to use them, says Michael Martin, executive director of the National Association for Pupil Transportation, which represents school transportation directors and the school bus industry."
source
Sandy |
|
|
|
JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2006 : 04:33:54 AM
|
Yes, was made aware of New York's voluntary program some years ago. On occasion the issue comes up in that State to require use of the belts. My understanding is that individual schools are allowed to require use.
Voluntary is inconsistent with use elsewhere, as well as failing to use an installed safety device is inconsistent with the original reason for installing this safety device, and any safety device on school buses for that matter.
Traveling by school bus is 2500 times safer than in personal vehicles, biking, etc.., was promoted years back and dismissed as faulty statistics. The actual numbers argued are no safer to the 100 range. To come back years later with 3,000 times safer is information for those not familiar with the old issues. It would appear when willing to believe thousands safer some expert somewhere seems willing to say it. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Hostage Takeover, bus fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
|
Edited by - JK on 10/29/2006 1:38:18 PM |
|
|
|
Skip
Senior Member
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2006 : 09:42:33 AM
|
You may want to check with your bus manufacture on insatlling seat belts. I know when NY went to seat belts in the 80's the seat frames had to be reinforced.
I would also check with whom ever inspects your buses |
|
|
|
vbacon
Senior Member
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2006 : 2:19:57 PM
|
| Spcdriver, I am a bus driver in NY State. NY school buses have been coming through with seat belts since 1987 per NY government law. Although all buses have seat belts on them, our students don't wear them and we cannot force them to wear them. I think they are a big waste of money, because kids like to hit each other as well as the windows and seats. You cannot tuck them in the back of the seat. It also does play a role in how you put 2 or 3 people in a seat. |
|
|
|
JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 12:20:06 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by vbacon
Although all buses have seat belts on them, our students don't wear them and we cannot force them to wear them. I think they are a big waste of money, ...
Right on target. Required installation and voluntary use represent politics in full bloom, much more so than insuring the use of an actual safety device in my opinion. (jk)
WESTFIELD, Ind., Aug. 26 (2002)/U.S. Newswire/ -- IMMI, manufacturer
of the SafeGuard School Bus Seat with lap-shoulder belts, today
released the results from a pilot program that for the first time
used a school bus seat with lap-shoulder seat belts for a regular
daily school bus route and field trips.
The study found nearly 100 percent of students aged six to 10
used the lap-shoulder belts every time they were riding the bus,
while usage among 11- to- 15 year olds was 75 percent, and usage
among students 15 and older was 50 percent. The pilot program,
which ran from February 15 to May 31, 2002, studied seat belt
usage, student behavior and product durability among students at
Indianapolis' Heritage Christian School. IMMI provided the school
with a type C conventional school bus for use on daily morning and
afternoon routes and field trips. Approximately 20 percent of the
students and all the bus drivers at Heritage participated in the
research study and logged more than 3,000 miles on the bus.
Results of the pilot program will be reported to the National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) to be included in
their study on school bus safety.
"The bus is definitely safer because the students are not moving
around", said Janice Gatliff, Transportation Assistant Heritage
Christian School. "The seat belts have conditioned the students to
stay in their seats, and its safer for me as the driver because I'm
concentrating on driving rather then disciplining a bus full of
kids."
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Hostage Takeover, bus fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
Edited by - JK on 10/28/2006 12:23:52 AM |
|
|
|
Stevebus42
Advanced Member
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 03:30:36 AM
|
| Skip is absolutely correct. Seat belt equiped buses require s different frsme design. |
|
|
|
Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2006 : 2:53:53 PM
|
I want to STRONGLY caution you against doing this in your shop. The bus dealer or another service facility that will with certify the work is compliant with all regulations is by far worth the extra cost.
Frankly you and your BOE do not need the liabilty. |
|
|
|
Spcdriver
New Member
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2006 : 12:41:01 PM
|
| Thanks for all the responses, I have email them all to DOT at our school. I have told them all that they would be opening a can of litigation, they seem to be listening. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
seat belts
