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 T444E engine won't start
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jperkins
Active Member

USA
41 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2006 :  4:17:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello all new to your forum I work for a detroit diesel dist. and work on a lot of school buses having a problem with a 444e have low injection pressure while cranking only 180 psi change ipr same problem change oil pick up tube then changed high pressure pump still only getting 180psi injection pressure while cranking while cranking over receiving camp signal and building 40 psi oil pressure on manual gauge also hooked up two manaul gauges to high pressure pump and while cranking over only get 180psi on both gauges and still can't get her to fire up any and all help would be appreciated this one is killing me thanks

mrschoolbus
Senior Member

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2006 :  5:31:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What year ? 1998 - 2004 Navpak?
You should get the following code ...

FLASH CODE 335

ATA CODE PID 164 FMI 1

ICP (INJECTION CONTROL PRESSURE) UNABLE TO BUILD PRESSURE DURING CRANKING

The purpose of flash code 335 is to determine if injection control pressure is being developed during engine cranking. It is an ICP system check and will be set after 8 to 10 seconds of engine cranking time with less than 725 psi (5 MPA) of injection control pressure detected. The period of engine cranking time before fault code 335 is set varies with engine temperature. Engine cranking speed must be greater than 130 RPM before fault detection begins.

An active code 335 is normally associated with a long time to start or no start engine condition.

Possible Causes:


No or insufficient oil in the engine.
Air in the injection control pressure system (particularly after an injector or high pressure pump replacement)
Defective or stuck injection pressure regulator.
Leaking injector "O" rings.
Loose high pressure pump gear
Defective high pressure pump
Recommended Actions For The Flash Code 335
Visual Inspection
*Check to see if IPR regulator and ICP sensor wiring is connected, check for oil leaks, check to see if injection control system recently disassembled (air entrapment), assure vehicle is operated a minimum of 15 to 20 miles if symptom is hard start and evidence of recent disassembly of injection control system.

*Check oil level,quality pressure
*Check for level and contamination, check for oil in the oil reservoir, verify lube oil pressure during engine cranking.
Manually fill the reservoir.

*Check active and inactive faults
Repair any ICP and CMP sensor codes first

*Perform a Key ON Engine OFF Standard Test
Test will verify IPR valve circuit continuity

*Test high pressure (injection control pressure system) for leaks..



Edited by - mrschoolbus on 03/18/2006 5:43:00 PM
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jperkins
Active Member

USA
41 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2006 :  6:13:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With the pro link connected only code is 333 low injection pressure if you start engine with ether pressure will reach 560 to 750 psi and with throttle at half it will run around 1200 rpms then pressure starts dropping and engine will die have new IPR and rebuilt high pressue installed on engine and new oil pick up tube in oil pan and i primed the high pressure pump during installation have fresh 15w40 mobil delvac oil and new oil filter engine will build 40 psi engine oil pressure during cranking and when running breifly at 1200 has 80 psi oil pressure this is at room temp 70 F in shop
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mrschoolbus
Senior Member

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2006 :  06:23:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Where did you buy the Reman HP pump from ? We have seen a number of bad Reman pumps lately. If it is truly good ,You may very well have a internal High Pressure oil leak at the Injector O- Ring(s).
Isolate Right Cylinder Head
*Remove high pressure hose from the right cylinder head Use an Aero Equip size 6 flare plug and install into the high pressure hose to block it off. Crank the engine and monitor the Injection Control Pressure (ICP) signal.
CAUTION ENGINE MAY START
*If the engine fails to start, refer to procedure on Isolating Left Cylinder Head. If the engine starts or the ICP pressure is now within specifications, the injection control pressure leak has been isolated to the right cylinder head.
Isolate Left Cylinder Head
*Remove the plug (used to isolate the right cylinder head high pressure hose) and reconnect hose to cylinder head. Remove the high pressure hose from the left cylinder head. Use an Aero Equip size 6 flare plug and install into the high pressure hose to block it off. Crank the engine and monitor the Injection Control Pressure (ICP) signal.
CAUTION ENGINE MAY START
NOTE: If the ICP pressure is not within specification proceed to IPR and High Pressure Pump Test
*If the engine starts, or the ICP pressure is now within specifications, the injection control pressure leak has been isolated to the left cylinder head. Reattach the left side high pressure hose. Remove left valve cover and crank the engine. Inspect the injector body and bore area for oil leakage. If no leakage is detected, perform ICP Leakage Test.

IPR And High Press Pump Test
*If injection control pressure is still low after isolating both cylinder heads, leave the ICP sensor adapter in the left hose and reinstall the flare plug to block the right high pressure hoseand crank the engine.
This has effectively deadheaded the high pressure pump. If pressure is still not developed, inspect the IPR (Injection Pressure Regulator) valve for debris and/or replace with a known good valve and retest. If pressure is still low, check the high pressure pump and drive gear. The gear may be loose or the pump may be defective.

ICP LEAKAGE TEST
*Reconnect all high pressure oil lines disconnected in the process of isolating the cylinder head which is causing a loss of ICP pressure.

2. Remove the high pressure supply line of the suspect leaking cylinder head at the high pressure pump .

3. Connect a regulated air supply to the high pressure supply oil line removed in the previous step.

4. Apply 100 psi of pressure from the regulated air source and inspect for leakage around the injectors.

5. With the fuel lines removed from the fuel regulator block, inspect for oil leakage out of each of the disconnected fuel lines. If oil is seeping out of the disconnected fuel lines remove all injectors in the cylinder head being tested and inspect injectors for worn "O" rings or obvious damage.

If leakage is observed at an injector, remove and inspect injector for obvious damage or worn "O"rings.

If no leakage is present, perform Injector "Buzz" test with air pressure still applied. Observe oil discharge from each of the injectors. Oil discharge should be equal from all injectors. If excess oil is discharged from an injector(s), the injector(s) may be defective.

If it is difficult to determine which injector(s) are leaking remove air supply and regulator from the high pressure oil supply hose and:

a. a. Connect an automotive cylinder leak tester to the high pressure supply hose and apply air pressure via the cylinder leak tester.

b. b. Conduct an Injector "Buzz" test and observe the percent cylinder leakage while each injector is activated. Remove and inspect injectors which exhibit a greater amount of leakage compared to the others.

c. c. If none of the injectors indicate an excessive amount of leakage, remove all injectors. Inspect all "O" rings for wear and damage. All "O" rings should be replaced.




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jperkins
Active Member

USA
41 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2006 :  08:16:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
mrschoolbus we ordered the high pressure pump from our local int dealer had to wait a week and a half for pump to arrive the said no one had one and found one in canada but when they tryed to get that pump it was already gone so they ordered it unit down from int.I have hooked 2 3000 psi gauges to both high pressure lines coming from the pump and can only get about 180 to 200psi on gauges while cranking and I know I need at least 440 to start can't hardly beleive inj orings fuel is clean no black fuel and when valve covers were off no inj leaking oil while cranking around solenoids or oring areas thanks for the replies I will be doing the rest of the tests monday you are talking about
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mrschoolbus
Senior Member

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2006 :  10:40:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did you "dead head" the pump with the gauges on the pump outlets? if you did and still low pressure. Check for 12volts at terminal A on the IPR. Terminal B is the signal ground from the ECM. You can ground terminal B to close the IPR for full pressure.

WARNING - CAUTION
Do not close the IPR with the pump "dead headed". This can cause the pump case to split.

If closing the IPR does not solve this or dead heading the pump and still low pressure the only thing left is a bad pump.

What year is this engine ?

Where and how can I contact you on Monday...

You can email me in the forum members profile section... Click on my username.




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jperkins
Active Member

USA
41 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2006 :  6:56:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Want to thank you mrschoolbus for cluing me into the ipr circut I did some retesting and found the problem rerun the standard test and this time I got code 241 and when I checked voltage at a terminal only had 1.89 volts then checked prints in service manual and checked f2 fuse with test light and showed no voltage then checked and found wire burnt causing high resistance at ign. switch repaired wiring at switch and runs great thanks for the help wonder why we can make some jobs so difficult
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