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Bluebird62
Top Member
USA
530 Posts |
 Posted - 11/04/2005 : 04:54:47 AM
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| I would like to begin converting my fleet from hydraulic brakes to air brakes next year. Can anybody tell me the long term effects on cost between the two of them? Any other benefits of air brakes (other than the obvious stopping power) would be great! |
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ModMech
Top Member
USA
948 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 09:01:05 AM
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| I have found that a typical air bus equipped with air brakes will have approximately a 15% lower CPM than one with hydraulic brakes. The lowest CPM vehicles I have ever seen in a school bus all had air brakes. |
If you want customer service, you NEED an International! |
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rswboe
Top Member
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 09:22:39 AM
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Upsides are lower maintenance costs, easier & quicker replacement times, & greater stopping power.
Downsides in clude the need for drivers to add an endorsement on their CDL. If you are in a cold climate, you need to familiarize youself with air system maintenance procedures. |
Live each like it's going to be your last, one day you'll be right! |
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TulsaOK
Active Member
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 3:11:53 PM
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I hope that fleet is worth the cost that you will be facing. Changing involves replacing brake pedals, rework of cowl for air valve mounting, removing hyd lines and adding air lines, replacing wheel brake assemblies, adding brackets and stand-offs as needed, adding an air compressor, air tank, adding required gauges in panel, ABS control units on newer buses, possible changes to parking brake system, etc. In other words, MAJOR work.
Best of luck and keep us posted on how it comes out. |
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kd4jfd
Top Member
USA
1168 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 4:56:20 PM
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| I think he meant he will start buying buses with air brakes to replace older buses with hydraulic brakes, not do a complete refit of existing buses. |
539 - Repair work in progress! |
Edited by - kd4jfd on 11/11/2005 4:59:19 PM |
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TulsaOK
Active Member
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 3:12:25 PM
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Wiping egg off face---I misread or at least read more into it than was said. Sorry.
As for air brakes, I personally prefer them over hydraulics. In 2001 when we began building IC buses in Tulsa it was about 30% air and 70% hydraulic on average. Nowadays its reversed, far more air units than hydraulic. The other good part is once you get an air supply on the bus you can do a lot of things with air operated options (crossing gate, stop arms, entrance doors, driver's seat, horn, rear suspension, etc).
Thanks for pointing out my mistake. |
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IC-RE
Top Member
USA
4117 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 7:13:57 PM
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| ALL of our buses in the county have air brakes, but our IC's have many more air options... Air door, ride/suspension, seat, so anyway, my question would be since we have all that other air stuff, would the stop arm and cross gate be air controlled also? I know on out old 88 Waynes they are air controlled but I am not sure about our 89-91 Blue Birds, 94-98 Thomas's, 96-01 AmTrans, and 02-06 IC's? |
 bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia. |
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thomas86_a
Top Member
USA
4413 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 7:32:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IC-RE
ALL of our buses in the county have air brakes, but our IC's have many more air options... Air door, ride/suspension, seat, so anyway, my question would be since we have all that other air stuff, would the stop arm and cross gate be air controlled also? I know on out old 88 Waynes they are air controlled but I am not sure about our 89-91 Blue Birds, 94-98 Thomas's, 96-01 AmTrans, and 02-06 IC's?
It depends on if your district speced it or not. Even with air the crossing arm and gate are still electric standard so you'd have to upgrade to air. |
If you have an International, you NEED customer service. |
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ModMech
Top Member
USA
948 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2005 : 1:38:27 PM
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| After spending over 10 years in the school bus business, and another 8 in service to the world's MAJOR SB contractors and seeing all the troubles, I feel strongly that if air is offered on the chassis side, it should be REQUIRED by FMVSS on ANY "bus", and manditory on ANY "truck" or "bus" with a GVW over 21,000#. |
If you want customer service, you NEED an International! |
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IC-RE
Top Member
USA
4117 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 2:12:39 PM
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| Okay, thank you for that. It seems that sir power is stronger than electric and more reliable, am I correct on that? To me electric doors just seem too weak. |
bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia. |
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bbird66
Top Member
USA
881 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2005 : 1:47:33 PM
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Tulsa, how many air are coming to Wisconsin? Every mech meeting I'm at, maybe 30-40 guys someone will ask and maybe one has air. Everyone else Hyd. I have to say that at LEAST 75% of Wisconsin buses are Hyd.
Thats what I like also, Dont like air.. |
Were gonna miss you "Brent"..Good luck in "Heidi land"
"I know you miss the Wainwrights Bobby, but they were weak and stupid people...and that's why we have wolves and other large predators" .. The Far Side
"On a two hour delay when will my child be picked up??"
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Bluebird62
Top Member
USA
530 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2005 : 05:11:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bbird66
Tulsa, how many air are coming to Wisconsin? Every mech meeting I'm at, maybe 30-40 guys someone will ask and maybe one has air. Everyone else Hyd. I have to say that at LEAST 75% of Wisconsin buses are Hyd.
Actually I think that 75% is low - my guesstimate is more around 90% hyrdaulic. Out of all of my research on this, I have only found two school districts in the state that have air brakes on all of their Type C & D buses; however, there are several that are converting. You want to know what the weirdest part of it is? The only bus in WI that is required by law to have airbrakes is an 84 passenger Bluebird because of the weight. Thomas and IC are not required too.
I did end up specing out full air: brakes, seat, door, stop arm, and crossing gates. It goes before the school board next month, so I'll keep y'all posted if I win 'em over.
Happy Thanksgiving everybody!
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Edited by - Bluebird62 on 11/23/2005 05:12:56 AM |
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bbird66
Top Member
USA
881 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2005 : 11:51:57 AM
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| Think your right on the 90%, Where is the rule on the 84 BB? cant find it in the trans 300 or the Out of service criteria. When you get that big I can see it. But I cant see the ruling. |
Were gonna miss you "Brent"..Good luck in "Heidi land"
"I know you miss the Wainwrights Bobby, but they were weak and stupid people...and that's why we have wolves and other large predators" .. The Far Side
"On a two hour delay when will my child be picked up??"
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Air Brakes
