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busdrver4jesus
Top Member
USA
802 Posts |
 Posted - 09/09/2005 : 9:30:16 PM
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Hey Guys -
Long time, no post! Hope the 2005/2006 school year is treating everyone kindly. Been really busy here, with not much time to keep up with the forum. This post may be old news to some, but, here goes any way. We got 3 of these buses here, and looks like one is going on my route. Wow, what buses! They are:
1992 Ward - Front engine transits - 70 Passenger - air brake/door
They are different for sure!
Take care!
I challenge you to watch the video on the link at the bottom of the story. It will give you more info on what we are dealing with.
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For the first time ever, South Carolina has bought used school buses to transport our children. The state bought 73 buses from a district in Louisville, Kentucky that was getting rid of them because they were too old.
It shows the condition of South Carolina's fleet that the used buses are still 9 or 10 years newer than the ones they'll be replacing.
The Kentucky buses are 1992 models, according to Don Tudor, director of transportation for the South Carolina Department of Education. They'll replace all the 1982 and 1983 models that are still in the South Carolina fleet, and some of the 1984 models.
The state parked one of the Kentucky buses next to one of the 1982 models in Columbia. The Kentucky bus has about 173,000 miles on it, while the old SC one has more than 271,000 miles.
"Any time we can buy a bus for a reasonable price and take one that's 21 years old off the road, that's what we're going to do," Tudor says. "We don't really have a whole lot of choice. We have to take the money that's appropriated to us and spend it as wisely as we can."
The money that's appropriated is why the state is buying used buses for the first time ever. A new bus costs about $54,000, while the state paid about $3,300 for these used ones.
South Carolina lawmakers appropriated millions of dollars for new buses this year. But they also put in the budget only $9 million for fuel and parts. Fuel alone is expected to cost almost $24 million, Tudor says, so the money for new buses has to go to rising fuel, spare parts and insurance costs.
Ideally, the state would get on a regular cycle of replacing a bus every 15 years or so, Tudor says, just as the Kentucky district retires buses after 12 or 13 years. But the state legislature has never funded a regular replacement cycle.
"The state has to do something to keep the fleet from just getting older and older and older," Tudor says. "In the last nine years, we've replaced an average of about 90 buses a year. That is a 62-year replacement cycle. You can't run buses that long. We have to do something."
A spokesman for Gov. Mark Sanford, Will Folks, says the governor continues to favor privatizing the state's school bus system. South Carolina is the only state that owns and operates a statewide school bus fleet. A panel organized by the governor that studied privatization voted at the beginning of this year to put out a request for proposals to see how much privatization would cost.
Folks says, "It's clear the private sector could provide better service and newer buses than a bureaucracy."
But Tudor and some others who testified before the panel say a private company couldn't run the bus system as inexpensively as the state can, because a private company would have to make a profit.
Tudor also assures parents that the used buses are safe. In fact, they have many safety features that the older buses they're replacing do not. The older buses have front-mounted engines, so it's difficult or impossible for a driver to see a small child in front of the bus. The Kentucky buses are like the new ones that South Carolina has bought recently, which have flat fronts and no hoods that the drivers have to look over.
The old buses also have only one emergency exit, at the back of the bus. The used ones from Kentucky have two emergency hatches in the roof, emergency exit doors on the side and rear and emergency exit windows on each side.
They also have stronger brakes, a smoother ride and stronger engines. Spare parts are also available for the used buses, while many spare parts for the state's oldest buses are now impossible to find.
http://www.wspa.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSPA/MGArticle/SPA_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031783667020 |
Edited by - busdrver4jesus on 09/09/2005 9:37:42 PM
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ICfan
Top Member
USA
1251 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2005 : 07:41:20 AM
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| I am a fellow South Carolinan, and I have seen Carpenter Buses still being used, I belive in privatization becuase my hometown has privatizated the Public School Transportation. A new Transportation Co. that upsetted Laidlaw! |
Tyler Roys Weatherman and International Fan,
http://www.freewebs.com/thectschoolbusyard |
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busdrver4jesus
Top Member
USA
802 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2005 : 08:00:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ICfan
I am a fellow South Carolinan, and I have seen Carpenter Buses still being used, I belive in privatization becuase my hometown has privatizated the Public School Transportation. A new Transportation Co. that upsetted Laidlaw!
Yes, Carpenter is still used quite a bit in our district. Those are the buses they are trying to faze out with the used Kentucky buses as well as the new Freightliners that are trickling in. My bus is a 1984 Carpenter that was replaced. Am I happy to see the Carpenter go? YES! Am I happy to have it replaced by the Ward? NOT REALLY! The only complaint I have against the Ward bus is getting into and out of the drivers area. You have to actually climb over the motor to get into the drivers seat. Other than that, they are pretty decent buses. It just upsets me that we have to buy 12 year old buses when we have money to buy total new buses.
As far as privatization, it has it's advantages and its disadvantages. I know that a private company would relieve the stress of having old buses, since they would bring in their own fleet. However, how is it going to affect the drivers? Would they keep the same staff of drivers or would they hire their own? Would our pay stay the same? (Although SC is one of the lowest paying states!) There are a lot of questions about privatization that have NOT been answered or explained to the ones who it would effect the most; THE BUS DRIVERS!
I think it needs to be researched ALL the way around, and not just in the political arena. Get the opinion of ALL of the transportation department, not just a few "pencil pushers"!  |
Edited by - busdrver4jesus on 09/10/2005 08:01:28 AM |
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2005 : 09:11:24 AM
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quote:
It just upsets me that we have to buy 12 year old buses when we have money to buy total new buses.
If the money is there to purchase new buses, by all means, your district should be purchasing new buses instead of 12 year old buses! New buses would be more efficient and you wouldn't have to worry much about replacing old, worn out parts on them. New buses would have a warranty on them, these 12 year old buses don't. Even if you bought one or two year old lease returns for a less purchase price than brand-new, that would be a much better alternative for your district.
I can answer one of your questions about what happens when a contractor takes over a district-run operation (or in your case a state-run operation). Usually the private contractors will hire the existing drivers working for the district; they will not bring in "their own" drivers. Instead, they make the existing drivers for the district their own. |
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busdrver4jesus
Top Member
USA
802 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2005 : 10:17:56 PM
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quote:
I can answer one of your questions about what happens when a contractor takes over a district-run operation (or in your case a state-run operation). Usually the private contractors will hire the existing drivers working for the district; they will not bring in "their own" drivers. Instead, they make the existing drivers for the district their own.
Thanks for the reply. That is what I was assuming would happen. We have herd several rumors flying around about what could/would happen should we be privitizited.
We are getting a few new buses in, but what has happened, they have waited so long to start purchasing new buses until there is not enough money to phase out all the old buses. If they would have had a replacement cycle like most do, then we would not have this problem. As in a lot of cases, school bus transportation has been placed on the back burner - and money has been spent elsewhere until the Lottery came into the state. Our lottery is susposed to go to education. X amount of dollars was set aside to buy new school buses. Some were bought, but not enough. The new governer changed and used the money set aside to buy new ones to repair the aging fleet we already have. Its been a BIG mess. He doesent want anything to do with buses - that is why he is all for privitazation. |
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B. Busguy33
Top Member
USA
3444 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 5:02:51 PM
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It's too bad your govenor didn't choose to purchase new buses (or newer lease returns) rather than putting money into older buses to keep them on the road.  |
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vaoverland
Advanced Member
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 7:10:34 PM
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Obtaining newer but still serviceable used buses can be a viable way to make a shortage of replacement funds for new buses stretch a lot further. In areas where weather is harsher, mechanical labor is more expensive, or where the community or contractors are wealthier, it can work well.
Introducing used buses into fleet operation successfully requires careful procurement, skilled shop labor, and realistic expectations. One huge advantage over new models is that with used buses, you can select models which have proved reliable and dependable, and avoid those occasional models of new buses which make everyone wish they had the old ones back again.
However, it has been a practice used occasionally in Virginia which enhanced school bus safety and reduced operating costs in a number of situations I can recall. It's not for everyone, but it can help. In our one of our contract school bus operations in the 1980s, we called our purchasing agent second-hand rose!
Good luck to South Carolina. Their mechanics are already very skilled at keeping older buses running. May those northern units enjoy their working retirement years in the gentler climate there.
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Wayne's Lifeguard in 1973 was a safety design and building concept ahead of its time and regulation. I am proud to have helped bring over 2,000 of them into Virginia during my career. I know they saved some lives.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/WayneBusEnthusiasts/
Mark Fisher, semi-retired school bus driver, pupil transportation supervisor, contractor, and school bus body dealer, Williamsburg, VA |
Edited by - vaoverland on 09/12/2005 9:56:15 PM |
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vaoverland
Advanced Member
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 7:12:21 PM
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Obtaining newer but still serviceable used buses can be a viable (and practical) way to make a major shortage of replacement funds for new buses stretch a lot further. In areas where weather is harsher, mechanical labor is more expensive, or where the community or contractors are wealthier, it can work well.
Introducing used buses into fleet operation successfully requires careful procurement, skilled shop labor, and realistic expectations. One huge advantage over new models is that with used buses, you can select models which have proved reliable and dependable, and avoid those occasional models of new buses which make everyone wish they had the old ones back again.
However, it has been a practice used occasionally in Virginia which enhanced school bus safety and reduced operating costs in a number of situations I can recall. It's not for everyone, but it can help. In our one of our contract school bus operations in the 1980s, we called our purchasing agent second-hand Rose!
Good luck to South Carolina. Their mechanics are already very skilled at keeping older buses running. Gradually, a better new bus plan may be implemented with used buses to ease the transition. It took SC years to get into such rough shape, and it will take a long time to get back into a good replacement cycle.
May those northern units enjoy their working retirement years in the gentler climate there.
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Wayne's Lifeguard in 1973 was a safety design and building concept ahead of its time and regulation. I am proud to have helped bring over 2,000 of them into Virginia during my career. I know they saved some lives.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/WayneBusEnthusiasts/
Mark Fisher, semi-retired school bus driver, pupil transportation supervisor, contractor, and school bus body dealer, Williamsburg, VA |
Edited by - vaoverland on 09/11/2005 7:14:58 PM |
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lvbuscrazy
Senior Member
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 7:28:54 PM
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| I think that ultimately it's better to buy new. As stated before, new buses have warranties. Overall, I think they are safer. South Carolina needs a reality check, SAFETY COMES FIRST!!! |
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vaoverland
Advanced Member
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 9:52:39 PM
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I certainly don't disagree that new buses are better than used ones for the reasons stated. However, the problem in South Carolina is massive. If the state does not have the money to replace all the buses which are worn out with new, then a transitional mix of new and used may be the way to go for a few years until they can get back on a sensible and responsible replacement cycle. Doing nothing is unacceptable, and buying only new buses will not replace enough to bring the fleet up to a level comparable with other nearby states.
What would you suggest they do? And, don't bother saying leasing or financing new buses, as this problem is bigger than that would solve, and the state constitution will not allow them to take on long-term debt of that nature. Regarding contracting, don't I recall that Laidlaw did some contracting in SC, and it didn't work out so well.
The issue here is not contracting vs. district operations, it is the lack of adequate funding over many years. The average fleet age problem in SC took many, many years to get this bad, and it will take them many years to get it straight. Thank goodness its getting some attention and innovative thinking at long-last.
I still say, good luck to Mr. Tudor and South Carolinians. |
Wayne's Lifeguard in 1973 was a safety design and building concept ahead of its time and regulation. I am proud to have helped bring over 2,000 of them into Virginia during my career. I know they saved some lives.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/WayneBusEnthusiasts/
Mark Fisher, semi-retired school bus driver, pupil transportation supervisor, contractor, and school bus body dealer, Williamsburg, VA |
Edited by - vaoverland on 09/12/2005 9:59:41 PM |
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School Bus M8
Top Member
USA
617 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 08:04:31 AM
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| I wonder if leasing the buses would be a better choice than buying them. Or maybe even a lease to buy plan. Lease them for 5 years, then when the lease is up, buy them and keep the buses until they're 10 years old. How does that sound? |
Edited by - School Bus M8 on 09/14/2005 6:19:23 PM |
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ICfan
Top Member
USA
1251 Posts |
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DanLJ
Advanced Member
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 1:35:28 PM
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Those "old" buses seem to be doing a yeoman's job of hauling kids back and forth in my neck of the woods.
My hat is off to the Department of Education for taking some aggressive action to rid itself of its oldest buses. When you need thousands of new buses, and get funding for less than 200 new ones, those used buses start to look REAL GOOD. I see more of this happening in the future, not less.
My hat is also off to the District that retired these buses. Quite obviously they had a good maintenance program. |
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vaoverland
Advanced Member
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2005 : 1:08:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by School Bus M8
I wonder if leasing the buses would be a better choice than buying them. Or maybe even a lease to buy plan. Lease them for 5 years, then when the lease is up, buy them and keep the buses until they're 10 years old. How does that sound?
The problem is, if 1. they get 5 years worth of new buses now, and make lease payments for 5 years, they can't buy more new buses during that time as it will take all their annual funding to make the payments. 2. Buying new replacements and some old but newer than buses being replaced each year will work them up into a replacement cycle in an orderly way. Look at the net result 5 years from now under each variation (1 or 2). |
Wayne's Lifeguard in 1973 was a safety design and building concept ahead of its time and regulation. I am proud to have helped bring over 2,000 of them into Virginia during my career. I know they saved some lives.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/WayneBusEnthusiasts/
Mark Fisher, semi-retired school bus driver, pupil transportation supervisor, contractor, and school bus body dealer, Williamsburg, VA |
Edited by - vaoverland on 09/17/2005 1:10:37 PM |
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Used School Buses To Replace Used School Buses
