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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
 Posted - 04/15/2005 : 1:33:40 PM
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Howdy all. Now that I've hung up my bus keys for a set of truck keys, I find myself in a 1997 Ford F-series (7000?) with 352,000 miles.
This truck has hydraulic brakes...the kind where the parking brake is the yellow knob you pull out about 6 inches or so and wait for the wheels to lock. I'm told this is the Lucas-Girling system?
Questions: How does this thing work? I've heard A LOT of negativity towards this system, anything I need to do or watch for to keep this thing safe and reliable? I notice that I have a seperate container to keep full of ATF that, from what I can figure, operates the parking system. This container is always puking out fluid around the filler cap...typical or problem?
Thanks guys...have a good weekend! |
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JC Theriault
Top Member
Canada
1326 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2005 : 4:57:07 PM
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If I recall correctly the Lucas system "shares" component power with the power steering hence the extra container. We had a Ford school bus where the driver was complaining about hard steering and it was that extra container that was allowed to run dry. As for throwing up fluid it sounds like an overfull situation, read the dipstick that comes off with the screw cover.
The only problem I ever had with the Lucas system was parking brakes that refused to release and a few times encountered the park brake applying itself for no reason. The mechanics at work got so fed up that they'd drive the bus with partially locked brakes back to the shop, probably hoping for a brake fire to get rid of the those chassis :)
I'm not a mechanic but as a driver I thought this system was more troublesome than regular hydraulic or vacuum brakes like you'd find on Internationals or GMs.
JC |
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bbird66
Top Member
USA
881 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2005 : 7:46:39 PM
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| Oh my god!! I was hopeing not to hear that "Lucas Gir#*&)@(!$#&)(* thing again! I agree with both on the problems, the parking system, yikes..pipes and more pipes and rusted pipes that you could not keep up with..oh my god the nightmares...If I could just find the guy who invented that cluster *&(*#. |
Were gonna miss you "Brent"..Good luck in "Heidi land"
"I know you miss the Wainwrights Bobby, but they were weak and stupid people...and that's why we have wolves and other large predators" .. The Far Side
"On a two hour delay when will my child be picked up??"
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2005 : 05:42:58 AM
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| Wow...sounds like I got a dandy! Thanks for the info and wish me luck!!! |
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ModMech
Top Member
USA
948 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2005 : 5:47:15 PM
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Thomasbus24,
YIKES! Yes, Lucas Girling brakes are some of the most mis-understood, and most maligned (rightfully so) braking systems on this planet. While it is true that with this system you actually do have a REAL "emergency brake", and that it is the ONLY hydraulic system to have this feature, and the rear shoes last 2-3 times longer then the competing rear disc brake linings, they are a truely hateful thing to work on.
My best suggestion is to replace any badly corroded line with a HOSE, and to tear the complete backing plate (foundation brake assembly) off in the event of any wheel cylinder or adjuster problems as "fixing" these brakes ALWAYS costs more than a reman foundation assembly (they come with shoes!)
This was Ford's hydraulic system for those "air-phobic" managers and bean-counters who mistakenly think that ANY vehicle with air brakes requires a CDL, or that there is a brake system equal in stopping power and overall safety to air. |
If you want customer service, you NEED an International! |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 05:08:32 AM
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I guess I should be thankful that I'm just the truck driver now...I don't have to work on this forsaken thing! I do however have to put up with it's problems.
I would MUCH rather have had air brakes, but the company I work for won't buy them. It's been really difficult for me to learn to trust these hydraulics...I'm not just convinced.
**Yet Columbus City Schools still runs all Hydros on thier buses**
*Sorry in advance to those of you who like hyrdo brakes |
Edited by - Thomasbus24 on 04/17/2005 05:09:18 AM |
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78fordwayne
Top Member
USA
2868 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 07:34:11 AM
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I remember working on those old Fords. The only good thing was like ModMeck said with the shoes lasting 2 to 3 times longer than rear disc. We use to have a lot of problems with the hydraulic pipes running to the back rusting out. That would always scare a driver real good when the rear tires sudenly lock up going down the road.
The service brakes were basicaly the same as any hydraulic sysytem. The parking brake was spring loaded like air brakes. Hydraulic presure from the power steering pump was used to hold the springs back. One thing I hated was not being able to release the parking brake if the engine wouldnt start. Unless someone climbed under the bus and backed off the springs with that bolt that would never want to turn.
Anyway the person who thought of this brake system should have been shot.
Does Ford still offer this brake system
Robert B
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rswboe
Top Member
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 09:51:45 AM
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| Lucas-Girling, I'd like to say more but I'm yakking on my keyboard........blehhhh.. |
Live each like it's going to be your last, one day you'll be right! |
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member
USA
4177 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 1:09:25 PM
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I just had a thought... If your engine were to shut off, you would then loose power steering pressure. Would that mean that your parking brakes would activate in the event of an engine stall? Or was there an accumulator on the power booster or something that would help prevent that?
This sounds like a really safe braking system, it's too bad that they're not still around (and that they weren't a little more garage friendly). |
Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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JC Theriault
Top Member
Canada
1326 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 1:31:04 PM
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No your park brake wouldn't automatically apply if the engine stalled. You still had service brakes with an electric motor. However if you applied the park brake and couldn't get the engine started then you were staying put.
JC |
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Thomasbus24
Administrator
USA
4547 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2007 : 5:52:03 PM
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Today is a beautiful day!
So I only drove the Ford for two months before getting a real truck (2004 International 4300), but we still had the beast. At 410,000 miles it flunked it's annual DOT inspection due to a leaking brake chamber and the company pulled the plug on the Ford.
Today it drove down the highway and out of my life FOREVER!
PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!
Had to share. |
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baptistbusman
Advanced Member
USA
301 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2007 : 8:59:55 PM
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| i know the feeling....still remember the joy as I looked in the mirror of my "new" 94 GMC and saw the Ford that i had just traded in sitting there all alone at the dealer lot. |
1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. |
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JC Theriault
Top Member
Canada
1326 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2007 : 9:20:05 PM
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Even my high school students had doubts about that braking system on the first day of a new school year when my rear brakes locked up solid at 50kms/hr. And this was less than 1.5 hours into the new school year! The mechanic got ticked off enough that he drove the bus back to the shop with partially applied brakes - second gear with the fuel pedal almost floored for about 10 minutes. Wish the bus had either blown an engine or had a brake fire but of course it was ready for me to use that afternoon.
JC |
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Ford Brakes
